/u/oortsaurus points out that Charles Murray coined the term that PK uses in his one sentence "refutation" of Murray's work, as if Murray hasn't heard of the concept that he coined the term for, in his most famous book which PK refuses to read.
The Prince got rinsed, you heard it here first folks.
Ah, I knew /r/drama would need to create a counter-jerk to the anti-Murray SRD jerk.
For real though Murray's book is bad and he should feel bad. I don't understand how someone could point out the Flynn Effect (proving that neither genetics nor environment have a monopoly on driving whatever IQ measures) and then say that this huge question mark doesn't matter when assigning IQs to races. Bad science.
P_K, as a mod of your cult/r/PKDefenseForce, I'm contractually obligated to point out that "P_K has never done anything wrong", but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. Focus on the econometrics or the pitfalls of using AFQT, but you're erecting a genetics/environment straw man that's been dealt with in the past.
We know that both genetics and environmental factors impact whatever it is that IQ tests measure.
It is basically impossible to design a test that consistently and accurately controls for environmental factors
When looking at groups of people facing markedly different environmental factors (i.e whatever we want to label as a race), we can't know what differences in IQ are due to genetics (if any) and which are due to environmental factors. Racists assume there is a genetic component, non-racists assume there isn't. Given that developing countries quickly catch up to developed countries as they get richer and invest more into public health & education, it seems likely that the nonracists have the better assumption.
A real job doesn't mean hard labor, you fucking idiot. Have you ever even been in charge of anything? A Burger King? An operation where people could die? Anything in between?
Racists assume there is a genetic component, non-racists assume there isn't.
How do you classify someone who makes no a priori assumptions?
Given that developing countries quickly catch up to developed countries in IQ scores as they get richer and invest more into public health & education, it seems likely that the nonracists have the better assumption.
By catching up, do you mean they achieve parity? Because if they are simply "closing the gap" so to speak, then...I don't know what to tell you, other than maybe: stay in school, kiddo?
Racists assume there is a genetic component, non-racists assume there isn't.
I agree with you up until here. Most racists assume it is almost entirely genetics, and most non-racists assume genetics has no effect. Both positions are wrong.
Specifically the observed differences in IQ scores across nations and what you might call "races", not heredity in general. We're dealing with a huge uncontrolled variable here in environmental factors so I don't see how you'd prove genetics cause certain populations to have different IQs than others.
There is more genetic diversity within Africa than outside of it so the idea of categorizing 'race' in any way resembling that of our right-wing friends ('proud white man' and 'the blacks') is obviously dumb as shit - but there are common genetic factors in geographic regions. Admixture with no-homo humanoids, for example.
And you'd prove a genetic link between the magic measure of intelligence that doesn't and can't exist and inherited genes the same way you would any other genetic link. The problem is obviously that you can't measure intelligence reliably because the very essence of 'intelligence' is (oh boy here I go get your memes ready) a social construct. That doesn't change the fact that the components which make up intelligence could potentially be inherited.
If you really wanted to get into the nitty-gritty of it you can identify common genetic relationships across larger regions
You can but you're always going to need very much arbitrary boundaries of what a "race" is, and the genetic difference between any two Americans of European descent is going to be on average larger than the difference between the average American of European descent and the average American of African descent (individual variability is larger than any group variability).
The problem is obviously that you can't measure intelligence
Yes I agree with you. That's the Step 1 problem, even being charitable and assuming a good definition I don't think you avoid other crippling problems after that.
There's a larger genetic difference between two Americans of European descent, sure, but most of that is meaningless SNPs. Individual variability is higher precisely because mutations haven't been selected for or reverted over one generation. When geneticists talk about differences between populations, the focus is on haplotypes which are made up of specific linked genes in linkage disequilibrium - i.e. they are linked inheritance wise in the genome, and have been selected for either through nautral selection or by chance or by a small population size.
So like, I don't know much about this. I've read some blog posts. I'm not going to read The Bell Curve, the topic really doesn't interest me.
Which of the facts you listed above is different for height than for the theoretical general intelligence factor measured by an IQ test? Some estimates suggest height is about 80% genetic. Is controlling for environmental factors harder with intelligence tests than for height? Maybe it is. Would you be uncomfortable with the idea that height differs among races?
I guess leftists have been a lot more productive attacking the concept of race, which is absurd, and a reasonable Conservative can understand why it is absurd, than attacking heritability or existence of an intelligence factor. Really seems to me like the average person feels Nature wins, since they see so many (not just physical) details of their parents in their own lives. Or maybe that's just because my girlfriend is really into family tree shit. (A family of petty criminals and Cajuns, or do I repeat myself /u/LSU_coonass)
Why am I typing all this, what a waste of time for drama. Okay, spark notes for the rest:
Hilarious echoes of Lysenko-ism?
Murray is the primary conservative voice for Universal Health Care and Basic Income, based on his conclusions in this book. Should those who support those policies for other reasons encourage those conclusions, regardless of their truth?
You got fuckin rinsed. He coined the term. You got owned.
I don't think that's even true! I'm saying that's what Sam Harris and many of his followers seem to think. Instead of screeching about the regressive left they could just admit they're conservative on many issues.
This shit is confusing as fuck in a completely serious non jerking way. What is left? I consider myself a moderate liberal but am reminded I'm a racist sexist Nazi closet Trump supporter quite often. But I'm not conservative so I'm left to them.
You can have people that are hard left that are openly racist and sexist to the so called "privileged" people and you see them openly hate the people that "lack privilege" if they ever waver from agreeing with their opinions in any way. It is even better when the people hating the people are themselves literally privileged as fuck.
How would that not be regressive all while they claim to be "progressive" and morally superior to everyone around them who are naturally on the wrong side of history and other condescending memes?
I mean, I've never heard you talk about how there is a civilizational war between the West and the Muslim world and we're going to be outbred and shit like that. I hear that all the time from the Sam Harris people and while liberals and leftists might disagree on specific views about immigration, they probably aren't talking about fucking Great Wars between infidels and muslims.
Oh, like, I don't mean about Sam Harris, because I don't like to talk about something that I literally have no clue about. I just know he is an atheist that does stuff like books and youtube or something? I just meant the use of the phrase in general. It doesn't make sense to me to think saying that phrase because you find people that are on the left to be hypocrites with deplorable actions/opinions just means you are outing yourself as a conservative in denial.
I just might be confused on what you mean though.
People who also tend to say there is no regressive left the loudest also tend to tell everyone they are secret trump supporters and claim there is no such thing as SJWs while getting super offended anytime these mythical SJWs are criticized.
I specifically mean in reference to that group, though, that's all I was talking about. I'm sure plenty of other people can critique liberals and the left without being conservative, or even use the regressive left label, but I feel like most of the Harris crew are in fact conservative.
Well, in that case, maybe. I just never see anything honest with talking about it from the loudest people. I lost count of anyone that says even saying the word REEEE means you are alt right or claiming someone is pulling some SJW or regressive behavior means you are a Nazi and lying about it. It is complete horseshit.
I don't know who is most likely to be a fan of his because I don't invest much time/effort/thought into religious cultural war nonsense.
PK is straw manning Harris by using the opinions of actual racists who agree with his criticism of Islam. It's the ol'we can't talk about these things, because people we don't like, may agree.
Harris says provocative things, and he has made statements that he has later wished he could walk back, especially about Islam, but he's been very upfront with his desire to work with liberal Muslims to promote a modernizing of the religion to move away from its anti-liberal origins. Listen to his podcast with Maajid Nawaz, if you're at all curios. You'll then see right through PK's nonsense.
Do you realize what a tool you sound like? You make baseless statements and then refuse to listen to the podcast you're raging against. When anyone points out that you're factually wrong you go for ad hominem.
No dipshit, I'm not in the Sam Harris fan club, but I've actually listened to his podcasts to see what the big deal is.
I've also come to the conclusion that behaviors like yours are a pretty good indicator for how much an insecure pseudo intellectual neckbeard someone is.
there is a civilizational war between the West and the Muslim world and we're going to be outbred and shit like that. I hear that all the time from the Sam Harris people
You've never once heard Sam Harris say anything remotely like that.
No, it's a real question: do you think someone had to be conservative to criticize the far left? Are you of the opinion that everyone that criticizes anarchists is conservative? Or for that matter, is everyone that criticizes Nazis liberal?
Prince is getting a PHD in ECONOMICS. He is rich. He fucks instagram models on his speedboat. Who the fuck, are you exactly? No one? Do you have rich parents? No? Are you on the right side of history? No --
fuck off . Eat a hot bowl of boiled aids and razor blades.
I understand and appreciate that this is satirical but imagine you don't know or care about Sam Harris and instead your life deals with real issues in government policy and he seems that much more lol
Like this dipshit is fighting a metareddit war and other people have to brief NSC members and convince them to not be retarded and it's hard to take this kid seriously.
they could just admit they're conservative on many issues.
...or you could just stop trying to pigeonhole millions of people into a moniker (KKKonservative) that allows you to dismiss their ideas. I have opinions that are shaped by life experiences that include time in college, the Peace Corps, and combat. Sam Harris makes well reasoned points on some things that I've experienced first hand, plenty of times I disagree, but the circle-jerking you guys engage in is so blatant and petty. You look like fools.
as a kind-of, sort-of, tepid leftist, the whole IQ denialism thing is one of my biggest discomforts with the left. it's not like it has huge public policy implications or something, but what they say about it is hugely disconcerting. they just blanket refuse to accept the existence of general intelligence, which is both supported by a large body of science and fucking obvious if you just think about interactions with human beings, because they think it has bad implications for egalitarianism. and they reach at the dumbest nonsense to try and refute it like just-so stories about IQ tests that require knowledge about rowing crew from 40 year old Stephen Jay Gould columns. jfc.
Look at this fucking Nazi trying to defend racism.
Everyone knows humans evolved from monkeys, and the second a proto-human with a modern human brain was born, evolution stopped working above the neck, and any identified differences in intelligence is obviously solely environmental.
Hang on, the dude's a copypasta machine, get a load of this:
Look man let me gets this straight - I have nothing against you.
"Nothing suggests its capabilities" thats an empty statement - thats your personal opinon - glad you shared it I bet you will find people who will agree with you. But thats not going to be me lol.
"There was once a man named Saddam" - are you serious man? we were with you guys in Iraq, Ukraine also took role in Iraq war - we send there Chemical defence battalion, and we were pulling out bombs from the roads as well. And we even have some soldiers in Afghanistan right now - sappers who are destroying devices what kill people - and you compare us to Saddam? That is something man. WOW. We fight against tyranny for 3 years and you dare to compare Ukraine to regime of Saddam?! Well thank you on that. Maybe Ukraine had not the biggest role in Western conflicts but Ukraine was always there. At this moment Ukrainian Military is going through tough period of reformation - when old doctrine is being replaced with new one, we got some units already equipped by NATO standards - and I dont see anyone giving a credit to that. Ukraine was once a peacful nation, and it got invaded by russia and it is still there, and pro russians are not able to do crap to move forward. At this point I personally take that as a sign of victory.
Ukrainian achivements would be not possible without technical progress as well, and I've listed some of them. How dare I to ask someone to add this to the game where Ukraine is represented right?
Jesus, "There was once a man named Saddam" really bro? Is that what Ukraine is gets assosiated in your head after 3 years of war for its unity? I really hope that your country will never have similar problems/situations. It was very nice of you to compare my words to "Saddam."
But back to what you've said.
Hiding behind 'it's just my opinion' - > im not hiding anything. Because born as a free man I have no fear to say what I think. And when I'm saying that it is just my opinion that is my opinion. Now your interpretation of my words can be different and I respect that.
When you list those things - I agree with you. There are many things to improve, and there are many things to change in Ukrainian military to make it more effective. That is a question of a time. I think that the real victory comes from 3 things: economy, industry, and spirit.
Ukrainian economy will be always supported because nobody wants russian nukes closer to the borders of EU.
Ukrainian Industry pulling out some fine pieces - and some of them would be nice to see in this game.
Ukrainian spirit - well lets say that russian invasion of crimea was the begining of the end for current kremlin regime - he picked wrong nation to screw with.
I agree to an extent but I can see why it's disliked given that it is used by alt right and/or white nationalists on the internet. There is also some research suggesting that iq tests aren't measuring all aspects that we would think of as cognitive ability.
Also, this may be 'whataboutary' but I think there is a large section of 'IQ maximalists' who are clearly overstating the case for heritability and particularly the genetic aspect of that and have a tendency to rule out social effects or economic ones I think this is because they want to see people like them as a cool genetic master race and/or it follows on from their arguments that the US should not have decent social programs because they are pointless (even where there is evidence from Europe that contradicts this). I remember the last review I read by the Flynn discussed in the op said that poor kids who are adopted by middle class parents have their iq jacked up by close to one standard deviation (or something). So I can see why it's become a sticking point when you add to the idea of people who want an egalitarian society. I do agree that it is a bit myopic though and that there is a tendency among people to ignore the things that might mess up their egalitarian idea.
I would say though that Murry and hernstien's idea in the bell curve (iirc) that the US social and economic situation in the 70s and 80s would lead to high iq people only having kids with other high iq people and because they think you need to have a high iq to be successful and there is some kind of logical progression of social standing, iq and income it would lead to some kind of 'genetic elite'. This seems to be just as wrong as anything and is massively contradicted by studies of the kids of rich people, the insane amount of phds and and adjunct professors earning not that much and most obviously by Trump and most of his kids.
Yeah, Chomsky kind of mauled Harris in that. However, Chomsky has said some really ridiculous things as well. He likened the assassination of Osama bin Laden to a terrorist group landing in the US and taking out the President.
Even brilliant people are allowed to be wrong occasionally.
The level of frothing hatred for Sam Harris has become a pretty accurate litmus test of how delusional people are. You can disagree with him on plenty of topics, but the rage is so obviously an overreaction when you do more than read out-of-context quotes.
Pls I'm glad PK exists, it's like a warning against socialism. Whenever you feel down, you think "holy shit at least in not that retarded." He really does a good service posting here.
76 comments
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n/a take_a_dumpling 2017-05-02
Awfully salty friendo. Someone Sacco your Vanzetti?
n/a 39flws 2017-05-02
/u/oortsaurus points out that Charles Murray coined the term that PK uses in his one sentence "refutation" of Murray's work, as if Murray hasn't heard of the concept that he coined the term for, in his most famous book which PK refuses to read.
The Prince got rinsed, you heard it here first folks.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
Ah, I knew /r/drama would need to create a counter-jerk to the anti-Murray SRD jerk.
For real though Murray's book is bad and he should feel bad. I don't understand how someone could point out the Flynn Effect (proving that neither genetics nor environment have a monopoly on driving whatever IQ measures) and then say that this huge question mark doesn't matter when assigning IQs to races. Bad science.
n/a subpoutine 2017-05-02
P_K, as a mod of
your cult/r/PKDefenseForce, I'm contractually obligated to point out that "P_K has never done anything wrong", but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. Focus on the econometrics or the pitfalls of using AFQT, but you're erecting a genetics/environment straw man that's been dealt with in the past.n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
How is it a straw man?
We know that both genetics and environmental factors impact whatever it is that IQ tests measure.
It is basically impossible to design a test that consistently and accurately controls for environmental factors
When looking at groups of people facing markedly different environmental factors (i.e whatever we want to label as a race), we can't know what differences in IQ are due to genetics (if any) and which are due to environmental factors. Racists assume there is a genetic component, non-racists assume there isn't. Given that developing countries quickly catch up to developed countries as they get richer and invest more into public health & education, it seems likely that the nonracists have the better assumption.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
^
Never held a real job in the world, argues incessantly online.
Christ, at least go fight in a war.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
I've held plenty of "real jobs". I don't mind hard labor, I just don't want to make a life out of it.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
A real job doesn't mean hard labor, you fucking idiot. Have you ever even been in charge of anything? A Burger King? An operation where people could die? Anything in between?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
If I fucked up on a 60 foot tower then yeah someone would die, in fact.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
Tell me more.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
No? You're boring.
n/a CaptainMemer 2017-05-02
No he hasn’t.
n/a SmurfPrivilege 2017-05-02
How do you classify someone who makes no a priori assumptions?
By catching up, do you mean they achieve parity? Because if they are simply "closing the gap" so to speak, then...I don't know what to tell you, other than maybe: stay in school, kiddo?
n/a TipTupKek 2017-05-02
I agree with you up until here. Most racists assume it is almost entirely genetics, and most non-racists assume genetics has no effect. Both positions are wrong.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
Specifically the observed differences in IQ scores across nations and what you might call "races", not heredity in general. We're dealing with a huge uncontrolled variable here in environmental factors so I don't see how you'd prove genetics cause certain populations to have different IQs than others.
n/a TipTupKek 2017-05-02
There is more genetic diversity within Africa than outside of it so the idea of categorizing 'race' in any way resembling that of our right-wing friends ('proud white man' and 'the blacks') is obviously dumb as shit - but there are common genetic factors in geographic regions. Admixture with no-homo humanoids, for example.
And you'd prove a genetic link between the magic measure of intelligence that doesn't and can't exist and inherited genes the same way you would any other genetic link. The problem is obviously that you can't measure intelligence reliably because the very essence of 'intelligence' is (oh boy here I go get your memes ready) a social construct. That doesn't change the fact that the components which make up intelligence could potentially be inherited.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
You can but you're always going to need very much arbitrary boundaries of what a "race" is, and the genetic difference between any two Americans of European descent is going to be on average larger than the difference between the average American of European descent and the average American of African descent (individual variability is larger than any group variability).
Yes I agree with you. That's the Step 1 problem, even being charitable and assuming a good definition I don't think you avoid other crippling problems after that.
n/a TipTupKek 2017-05-02
There's a larger genetic difference between two Americans of European descent, sure, but most of that is meaningless SNPs. Individual variability is higher precisely because mutations haven't been selected for or reverted over one generation. When geneticists talk about differences between populations, the focus is on haplotypes which are made up of specific linked genes in linkage disequilibrium - i.e. they are linked inheritance wise in the genome, and have been selected for either through nautral selection or by chance or by a small population size.
n/a 39flws 2017-05-02
So like, I don't know much about this. I've read some blog posts. I'm not going to read The Bell Curve, the topic really doesn't interest me.
Which of the facts you listed above is different for height than for the theoretical general intelligence factor measured by an IQ test? Some estimates suggest height is about 80% genetic. Is controlling for environmental factors harder with intelligence tests than for height? Maybe it is. Would you be uncomfortable with the idea that height differs among races?
I guess leftists have been a lot more productive attacking the concept of race, which is absurd, and a reasonable Conservative can understand why it is absurd, than attacking heritability or existence of an intelligence factor. Really seems to me like the average person feels Nature wins, since they see so many (not just physical) details of their parents in their own lives. Or maybe that's just because my girlfriend is really into family tree shit. (A family of petty criminals and Cajuns, or do I repeat myself /u/LSU_coonass)
Why am I typing all this, what a waste of time for drama. Okay, spark notes for the rest:
Hilarious echoes of Lysenko-ism?
Murray is the primary conservative voice for Universal Health Care and Basic Income, based on his conclusions in this book. Should those who support those policies for other reasons encourage those conclusions, regardless of their truth?
You got fuckin rinsed. He coined the term. You got owned.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
tl;dr
n/a 39flws 2017-05-02
Tough but fair
n/a nmx179 2017-05-02
Except you got 100% owned right there in SRD?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
mmhmmmm
n/a HULK_HOGAN_FASCISM 2017-05-02
u got blue teh fuk raus fam
n/a RenegadeJoeson 2017-05-02
You are boring and take yourself too seriously. Drink some bleach and chill out.
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-05-02
Lies! Actual footage of someone trying to rinse the prince.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
Is this nigga retarded
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
I don't think that's even true! I'm saying that's what Sam Harris and many of his followers seem to think. Instead of screeching about the regressive left they could just admit they're conservative on many issues.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-02
You don't think there is a regressive left? That doesn't mean anyone that is "left" is regressive though of course.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
Maybe but they basically just use it because almost all liberals and leftists disagree with them on fundamental issues.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
"Almost all"
n/a The_Reason_Trump_Won 2017-05-02
You realize when they bitch about the regressive left, it's just like when you bitch about the "edgyness" of other anarchist communities ?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
Except they don't seem to hold many major viewpoints that everyone else who is liberal or leftist does, so they aren't. This is dumb fam.
n/a The_Reason_Trump_Won 2017-05-02
If you disagree with bashing the fash you're probably a cash tbqh
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-02
This shit is confusing as fuck in a completely serious non jerking way. What is left? I consider myself a moderate liberal but am reminded I'm a racist sexist Nazi closet Trump supporter quite often. But I'm not conservative so I'm left to them.
You can have people that are hard left that are openly racist and sexist to the so called "privileged" people and you see them openly hate the people that "lack privilege" if they ever waver from agreeing with their opinions in any way. It is even better when the people hating the people are themselves literally privileged as fuck.
How would that not be regressive all while they claim to be "progressive" and morally superior to everyone around them who are naturally on the wrong side of history and other condescending memes?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
I mean, I've never heard you talk about how there is a civilizational war between the West and the Muslim world and we're going to be outbred and shit like that. I hear that all the time from the Sam Harris people and while liberals and leftists might disagree on specific views about immigration, they probably aren't talking about fucking Great Wars between infidels and muslims.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-02
Oh, like, I don't mean about Sam Harris, because I don't like to talk about something that I literally have no clue about. I just know he is an atheist that does stuff like books and youtube or something? I just meant the use of the phrase in general. It doesn't make sense to me to think saying that phrase because you find people that are on the left to be hypocrites with deplorable actions/opinions just means you are outing yourself as a conservative in denial.
I just might be confused on what you mean though.
People who also tend to say there is no regressive left the loudest also tend to tell everyone they are secret trump supporters and claim there is no such thing as SJWs while getting super offended anytime these mythical SJWs are criticized.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
I specifically mean in reference to that group, though, that's all I was talking about. I'm sure plenty of other people can critique liberals and the left without being conservative, or even use the regressive left label, but I feel like most of the Harris crew are in fact conservative.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-02
Well, in that case, maybe. I just never see anything honest with talking about it from the loudest people. I lost count of anyone that says even saying the word REEEE means you are alt right or claiming someone is pulling some SJW or regressive behavior means you are a Nazi and lying about it. It is complete horseshit.
n/a evannever 2017-05-02
PK is straw manning Harris by using the opinions of actual racists who agree with his criticism of Islam. It's the ol'we can't talk about these things, because people we don't like, may agree.
Harris says provocative things, and he has made statements that he has later wished he could walk back, especially about Islam, but he's been very upfront with his desire to work with liberal Muslims to promote a modernizing of the religion to move away from its anti-liberal origins. Listen to his podcast with Maajid Nawaz, if you're at all curios. You'll then see right through PK's nonsense.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
lol it's the Sam Harris Fan Club
n/a evannever 2017-05-02
Do you realize what a tool you sound like? You make baseless statements and then refuse to listen to the podcast you're raging against. When anyone points out that you're factually wrong you go for ad hominem.
No dipshit, I'm not in the Sam Harris fan club, but I've actually listened to his podcasts to see what the big deal is.
I've also come to the conclusion that behaviors like yours are a pretty good indicator for how much an insecure pseudo intellectual neckbeard someone is.
Seriously, this shit's retarded, brah.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
tl;dr
n/a evannever 2017-05-02
Shall we head over to /r/Anarchism or /r/FULLCOMMUNISM and cherry pick the worst posts as typical?
You've never once heard Sam Harris say anything remotely like that.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
Do you actually think the only way someone can think the far left is stupid is if they're secretly a conservative?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
Ah, I can see this conversation will be productive.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
No, it's a real question: do you think someone had to be conservative to criticize the far left? Are you of the opinion that everyone that criticizes anarchists is conservative? Or for that matter, is everyone that criticizes Nazis liberal?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
Everyone is a nazi, basically.
n/a BowToModRiemann1413 2017-05-02
Lol, get a load of this sam harris follower.
Prince is getting a PHD in ECONOMICS. He is rich. He fucks instagram models on his speedboat. Who the fuck, are you exactly? No one? Do you have rich parents? No? Are you on the right side of history? No -- fuck off . Eat a hot bowl of boiled aids and razor blades.
n/a itsaboyffxiv 2017-05-02
I understand and appreciate that this is satirical but imagine you don't know or care about Sam Harris and instead your life deals with real issues in government policy and he seems that much more lol
Like this dipshit is fighting a metareddit war and other people have to brief NSC members and convince them to not be retarded and it's hard to take this kid seriously.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
is this noodles or someone else
n/a BANNED_FIVE_TIMES 2017-05-02
n/a evannever 2017-05-02
...or you could just stop trying to pigeonhole millions of people into a moniker (KKKonservative) that allows you to dismiss their ideas. I have opinions that are shaped by life experiences that include time in college, the Peace Corps, and combat. Sam Harris makes well reasoned points on some things that I've experienced first hand, plenty of times I disagree, but the circle-jerking you guys engage in is so blatant and petty. You look like fools.
n/a theherps 2017-05-02
/u/prince_Kropotkin, you can't post multiple walls of text on srd and call anyone else an embarrassment
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
You're an embarrassment.
n/a theherps 2017-05-02
K
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-02
You were just told that isn't allowed.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-02
ANARCHY!!!!!!!!!!
n/a DracoX872 2017-05-02
😍😍
n/a RenegadeJoeson 2017-05-02
I bet you are a cumskin. I hate your kind. I can't wait for the day of the rope.
n/a The_Reason_Trump_Won 2017-05-02
n/a CaptainMemer 2017-05-02
PK is just upset no one wants to listen to his podcast.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-02
as a kind-of, sort-of, tepid leftist, the whole IQ denialism thing is one of my biggest discomforts with the left. it's not like it has huge public policy implications or something, but what they say about it is hugely disconcerting. they just blanket refuse to accept the existence of general intelligence, which is both supported by a large body of science and fucking obvious if you just think about interactions with human beings, because they think it has bad implications for egalitarianism. and they reach at the dumbest nonsense to try and refute it like just-so stories about IQ tests that require knowledge about rowing crew from 40 year old Stephen Jay Gould columns. jfc.
n/a ironicshitpostr 2017-05-02
Look at this fucking Nazi trying to defend racism.
Everyone knows humans evolved from monkeys, and the second a proto-human with a modern human brain was born, evolution stopped working above the neck, and any identified differences in intelligence is obviously solely environmental.
n/a HULK_HOGAN_FASCISM 2017-05-02
You're a libertarian hack fam, and a huge fucking nerd. Don't pretend otherwise.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-02
You know perfectly well I'm a socialist NDP union hack, don't you pretend otherwise.
n/a HULK_HOGAN_FASCISM 2017-05-02
Where's my thank you for protecting your minority rights on Discord, you degenerate pondscum?
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-02
Tell him Lwów is rightfully Polish and pretensions of Little Russians of Kiev to be civilized Central Europeans are laughable
n/a HULK_HOGAN_FASCISM 2017-05-02
Hang on, the dude's a copypasta machine, get a load of this:
I'm crying rn
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-02
Ukrainian human waves best day of my life
n/a lurker093287h 2017-05-02
I agree to an extent but I can see why it's disliked given that it is used by alt right and/or white nationalists on the internet. There is also some research suggesting that iq tests aren't measuring all aspects that we would think of as cognitive ability.
Also, this may be 'whataboutary' but I think there is a large section of 'IQ maximalists' who are clearly overstating the case for heritability and particularly the genetic aspect of that and have a tendency to rule out social effects or economic ones I think this is because they want to see people like them as a cool genetic master race and/or it follows on from their arguments that the US should not have decent social programs because they are pointless (even where there is evidence from Europe that contradicts this). I remember the last review I read by the Flynn discussed in the op said that poor kids who are adopted by middle class parents have their iq jacked up by close to one standard deviation (or something). So I can see why it's become a sticking point when you add to the idea of people who want an egalitarian society. I do agree that it is a bit myopic though and that there is a tendency among people to ignore the things that might mess up their egalitarian idea.
I would say though that Murry and hernstien's idea in the bell curve (iirc) that the US social and economic situation in the 70s and 80s would lead to high iq people only having kids with other high iq people and because they think you need to have a high iq to be successful and there is some kind of logical progression of social standing, iq and income it would lead to some kind of 'genetic elite'. This seems to be just as wrong as anything and is massively contradicted by studies of the kids of rich people, the insane amount of phds and and adjunct professors earning not that much and most obviously by Trump and most of his kids.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-02
k
n/a lurker093287h 2017-05-02
Hmm I never really thought about it that way, this has really expanded my mind.
n/a ghostchamber 2017-05-02
Yeah, Chomsky kind of mauled Harris in that. However, Chomsky has said some really ridiculous things as well. He likened the assassination of Osama bin Laden to a terrorist group landing in the US and taking out the President.
Even brilliant people are allowed to be wrong occasionally.
n/a evannever 2017-05-02
The level of frothing hatred for Sam Harris has become a pretty accurate litmus test of how delusional people are. You can disagree with him on plenty of topics, but the rage is so obviously an overreaction when you do more than read out-of-context quotes.
n/a TotesMessenger 2017-05-02
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
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n/a HivemindBuster 2017-05-02
Me? I'm just posting some drama, nothing more.
n/a Sarge_Ward 2017-05-02
Its just a silly parody sub. Don't pay us any mind.
n/a Mexagon 2017-05-02
Pls I'm glad PK exists, it's like a warning against socialism. Whenever you feel down, you think "holy shit at least in not that retarded." He really does a good service posting here.
n/a HULK_HOGAN_FASCISM 2017-05-02
Another bunch of 'thoughtful, insightful' thought-to-text diarrhea from our pet """"""""moderate"""""""" radical /u/prince_Kropotkin.
n/a Herbert-West 2017-05-02
He should really stop skipping his tutorials.