This is why we need mayocide.

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Snappy, you always call for mayocide at just the right time

There isn't a wrong time to call for mayocide

OP has a point. The people who are most in favor of raising taxes on the rich are those that pay very little taxes to begin with. Talk about raising taxes on everyone and they scream.

All this talk about fairness is ridiculous, life isn't fair, so deal with it.

Uh they are 'dealing' with it. By trying to raise taxes. I don't know why people like you think 'deal with it' just means accept it and move on. If life isn't fair for the poor person, then it's not going to be fair for the rich person when the poors get their policy implemented.

It's certainly not dealing with it, it's asking the government to bail them out of their situation instead of them doing it themselves.

The governments job is literally there to make policy. They are "dealing with it" by trying to get policy favorable to them made. Holy shit how are you this dense?

You are absolutely right, they are dealing with it. Its the part where they have to then try to justify calling it "more fair" that males me choke. Like, fine take the money and redistribute it through government, whatever, but don't piss on my boots and tell me its raining.

This assumes literally every rich person had the same opportunities as a poor person.

Is it "fair" when you start off with more money, resources, and education than someone else?

You know what I mean you dingleberry.

No it doesn't. Because it's not a argument for what is the fairest system, it's saying that the two sides are never going to ever agree with what's "fair" so stop trying to use it to justify your advantage. The rich have the advantage of resources the poor the advantage of numbers. To try to disguise your advantage as fair is disingenuous.

the poor have the advantage of numbers

Time and Time again this advantage has proven to mean less than the advantage of resources. So it's not even an even playing field on that account. It's not even an advantage because the more poor there are the less resources each of the poor have. I

What's fair can easily be decided in this case. If people on one end have to suffer through crappier living conditions, education, and opportunities for the sake of a select few group of people to have more luxury resources then the "fair" solution seems clear.

How convenient for you that whats "fair" just happens to include using someone elses money for what you want.

How convenient for you that what's fair just happens to include letting people suffer under lack of healthcare coverage, bad educational institutions, and overall lack of opportunities to improve their situation just so a select few people can buy some luxury goods or make investments to further their own wealth. The basic concept of the rich paying higher taxes isn't unfair.

Never said flat tax is more fair, I'm not going to insult you that way, because I recognise my own biases.

the poor the advantage of numbers

so much for being an individualist amirite

This, but with my balls on /u/HillaryClinton-Trump's face.

I have sympathy for special needs people like you. Here you go and easy your pain 🔫

Then bitch why all the poor scum cause so much crime.

Lmao what, how the fuck is it a person who makes money's fault that theirs someone homeless on the streets and committing crime throw them the fuck in jail, theres no special rules because muh poor

They aren't at fault. They are protesting a system that benefits them as much as the poor. That is the irony of it all. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

very easily, actually. for-profit prisons are always an option. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

The only fair tax is a flat tax in which everyone pays the same percent.

This assumes a linear relationship between income and benefit from being in an organized society. Which is not the case.

that doesnt make sense. assume two people live in the same society, and have the same benefits from that society. one of them somehow manages to make 100k/year, and the other manages to make 60k/year

given that they both had access to the same societal benefits, it would stand to reason that the differences in their income came about from individual differences, not from society

You may disagree, but you can't say it doesn't make sense. Things with nonlinear relationships exist, they are often perceived/simplified to a linear plot.

I wasn't even getting into societal benefits, but since you mention it: * 60k/100k exact approximately the same benefits, true, which would for this case mean they should contribute equal (not proportional), further supporting the nonlinear relationship. * If you expand the scope, you quickly see that other nonlinearities exist. Think about the oft-derided 'welfare queens' or the super rich who can lobby for favorable estate tax code.

Beyond that, if we talk about the pure cost/benefit of being part of an organized society (social contract and such), your benefit increases nonlinearly the wealthier you get.

no, your benefit doesnt. it takes a lot more resources to police a ghetto than a bank

governments spend billions on public schools, but vanishingly little on private schools.

the list can go on

it takes a lot more resources to police a ghetto than a bank

Lol.

Dude it doesnt matyer if your tax rate is 0%, youll still be a manlet and no woman will ever respect you. The eventual gold digger who finally relents and accepts you as her financial sub will still only lust after us alpha chads.

now that was a truth bomb

ITT mediocre negroes thinking part of my 80 hours belong to them even though they worked 40. Fuck all of you

I'm fine with raising taxes and I make a pretty damned good living. I find it funny how many hardcore low-tax types there are in the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" world.

or "upper middle class person who has nearly half their income taken away through income tax, payroll tax, social security, medicare, state income, etc., etc." that's also an option.

upper middle class person

ok why the fuck do they care about what millionaires pay then

let's get some eisenhower rates goin

Upper middle class do not have half their income taken away by all those taxes.

Have you ever worked as a contractor? Yes they do. You just don't see it because it's taxes the employer pays before the difference between 'gross' and 'net' on your paycheck.

You can try to say as a technicality that it's taxes the employer pays so it doesn't count, but it's taxes they're only paying for the sake of keeping you around.

What is the name of this "pre-tax". Because payroll taxes are Medicare, federal withholding, social security, etc. Those are between gross and net. There's the employee side of the FICA tax, but that's well under 10% iirc.

My point is on your paycheck if you work as a W2 you see social security and medicare, but you only see half of what is being paid for that.

So for someone making 100k gross, 15k of that goes to Medicare and Social security, 21k goes to federal withholding, and state taxes will end up eating another 8k if you live in a major metro area. That's 50% gone before the money reaches your hands.

It's slightly less at 90k, 80k, and 70k, but still a huge percentage of the value you're providing for your employer. We already pay taxes like we live in a social democracy country, which is something I'm not sure people who think "oh we just need more taxes like Norway" understand.

As someone who makes the kind of money you are describing, your math is not correct.

LOL, what? Point it out then.

I make the kind of money I'm describing and live in a blue state, so this is literally how much is taken off the top of what I earn. Point out to me where I'm wrong.

I don't know what to tell you. I just checked my paycheck and your math does not add up.

Not all of the taxes that are paid to employ you are displayed on your paycheck. Half of the medicare and social security is paid by the employer and does not show up in the difference between net and gross on your paycheck.

I know, but even adding the extra FICA payments we are still not at 50% as was claimed. Medicare taxes are pretty small to begin with, and even if my social security taxes were doubled it wouldn't be 50%.

I'll accede that 50% is a few points off. For me it's actually around 45%, but I think it's close enough for my point to still stand about the severity at which people are already taxed (and that it's actually similar to socdem countries like Norway). Maybe you live in a state which is not quite as tax heavy as mine.

I'll accede that it's actually the "nearly half" I stated in my original comment, not 50%, which is a few points off. For me the effective rate is actually around 45% (this is more close to the sum of the percentages I gave above) and this is including corrections from filing. But I think it's close enough for my point to still stand about the severity at which people are already taxed (and that it's actually similar to socdem countries like Norway) - if your figures depart heavily from that, and for reasons other than living in a less-taxed state, feel free to show your math.

My total tax contribution is about 22%, although it should be a bit higher, let's say 25%. There are no state taxes, but those are deductible, so I'm not sure how much that would push it up. Maybe you could get to 45%? Seems like that's pushing it a bit.

"upper middle class person who has nearly half their earnings taken

you're filing your taxes wrong lol

Well the system also isn't fair to poorer people as far as wealth creation goes either. A poor person pays tax out of their paycheque each week while a rich person can avoid taxes by routing cash through numerous methods and are constantly given tax cuts by conservative governments.

Implying that raising income tax on wealthy people is unfair is hilariously missing the point

man it sure sucks about life not being fair though

if only there was some kind of... construct we could use to enforce a sort of... "fairness policy," if you will, upon society

The only fair tax is a flat tax in which everyone pays the same percent.

overdose on vicodin already holy shit

the argument used to be that the rich have more invested in society and thus vastly more to lose if the society falters. but it becomes tricky when the rich don't really need to reside anywhere in particular

"Life isnt fair so we cant do anything to make it better for people"

Well let's raise taxes and make life unfair for the rich. ¯\_(ツ) _/¯

https://i.imgur.com/FvDHPBU.gif

Oh boo hoo, you won't get a second yacht.

You wanna bet your sweet bussy on it boi? ;)

That's not how that works.

Poor people need to pull themselves up by their bussystraps.

Or just not be so fucking stupid.

So ur telling me I shouldn't be having 5 kids with 4 different people with a dead end $10/hr job?

How come I'm not surprised?

In an industry filled with thirsty kissless old virgins, of course that group will feel threatened by the arrival of more women. More people who will be able to tell them they suck, that they are without remedy, that they are disgusting to normal people? I'd feel threatened. Then again, they should feel threatened, because they are the kind of people (these pasty-white, socially inept, inexperienced neckbeards) that shouldn't be hired to begin with! Not women, but them! Their toxic personalities, which got them where they are now, and their disgusting hygienic standards (not to say anything about their unattractive looks) is the stuff that drove people away from them in the first place.

As a woman in tech, I'm sick and tired of dealing with social outcasts in an everyday basis. None of my non-STEM friends deal with things like this. Every time I talk to them about having to work with people with zero social skills, that don't share any interest in normal social events, that have zero social experience, that get creepy, that are the epitome of the neckbeard, I'm treated as though as I did work in some sort of hospice for the mentally challenged. They get to work and collaborate with normal, well-adjusted coworkers, which makes their work more fulfilling, makes them want to improve and get involved, and even have repercussions in their social lifes. Me? It's like dealing with freshmen from high school. And I dread the possibility of encountering them outside work. Like, fear-for-my-life level of dread.

The real problem with IT? It's filled with socially inept white men. Get rid of them, and see the industry boom. You think the Knuths, the Dijkstras, the Hamiltons, the Shockleys, the Moores or the von Neumanns of the past were socially unadjusted? They were normal people. They managed to get along with normal people. Chat, keep a conversation, date, get laid, party, go out on weekends. It's impossible to work with people who are better described as "androids trying too hard to forget they are in part humans". It simply doesn't work like that. Maybe in the future, when AI manages to take over the software industry, such an entity can be useful. But this industry basically demands that any newcomer becomes maladjusted. That is bound to backfire.

And you are seeing the backfire already. China is gaining ground. So does Europe. Places where the neckbeard, socially inexperienced virgin stereotype of an IT worker doesn't really exist. I've worked there with amazing and talented people who also knew how to relate to people, how to collaborate, how to work in groups, how to socialize. They were creative. That's why you see a drop in quality in Silicon Valley: they are hiring robot-wannabe, academics-obsessed manchildren who have known (or worse: cannot know) any other life than coding/software/engineering. Of course they are going to stunt. There's nothing new. No new ideas, no new worldviews. The same always-repeated mantras, dogmas, rule-of-thumbs and "deities"/idols they worship.

Again, the solution? It's not "hire more women/black people". It's stop hiring socially stunted, inexperienced, kissless virgins. Then women and minorities will flock back to you and you'll get several new sets of fresh eyes.

Wait, is the OP actually talking about the rich paying a higher percentage and everyone else is responding like he was saying they should pay the exact same amount?

"Yes, I'm fully capable of doing math. 10% of 70,000 is 7,000. 5% of 20 is 5. What's your point? Edit: Okay, 5% of 20 is 1. Don't pretend like you've never hit the wrong key and then neglected to proofread."

-u/comicbookfan97

Haikubot, this is more poetical than any of your oriental drivel!

thanks, sex-kitten.

Yeah? But imagine if he did.

Interesting that you never see a rich communist.

All those ideals of fairness and maintaining a basic standard of living get thrown out the window as soon as those ideals no longer have the potential to benefit you. Ironic, because that sort of mentality is supposedly the root cause of capitalism.

Interesting that you never see a rich communist.

Bernie Sanders. They're con artists that pretent to not be part of the rich elite so that middle-class commie retards support them.

Sanders used to rant about millionaires, then, when it was revealed that he's a multi-millionaire, he switched to ranting about billionaires.

Sanders isn't a millionaire. r/drama has a rather stupid demographic of lolbertarians, wannabe nazis that are stupid enough to believe that lowering taxes, lowering minimum wage and screaming at poor people will improve society. Still salty?

Are you seriousposting?

G E T O U T E T O U T

Oh boy, you believe this unironically and still call other people stupid? Truly all of societies efforts were wasted on you.

You are a wasted life, a true parasite. You are dumb enough to defend propaganda. You are in no position to accuse others of being stupid.

I mean you made it pretty fucking clear that years worth of education, nurturing and being cared for by your parental units, and a whole life of experience was a waste. You typed those words on a subreddit called /r/drama, a subreddit who's main meme is posting dick picks of feminine men, trying to make some smug, stupid, and condescending comment. Why? To correct an internet comment? To gain what exactly, a sense of superiority? Of all the little sperms that swam around in your dad's ball sack, you had to be the one that was the biggest disappointment. You could have been a conservative republican, yet you chose to be you.

That's one edgy copypasta.

You could have never been born, yet you chose to be you.

This coming from a guy named deity of darkness? I think I'm good.

Better than being a pathetic homunculus. You are an edgy and rather boring lolbertarian. And using an edgy Cold War reference makes you worthy of respect?

http://www.dignitas.ch/?lang=en It's the best thing you can do with your worthless, moronic life.

at least Soviets knew how to pay for roads.

The only problem was they couldn't get anyone to drive on them.

http://time.com/money/4805379/bernie-sanders-2016-income/

both of you are now seriousposting. What a terrible thread. Delete your accounts.

Being this retarded.

Socialists/communists aren't interested in exploiting the third world, and first world, for their own benefit. They want a society where a individual isn't forced to work for a poor rate or run the risk of homelessness/starvation. I love how r/drama get's very salty whenever anyone points out how inefficient capitalism can get.

You literally just restated your definition of socialism.

I have no idea how that interacts with what I said.

I'll restate my argument- socialists have the same mindset of benefitting themselves at the expense of others (in this case, those others being the rich) that they claim to indict. They support this ideology merely because they believe that it would solve issues that directly impact them- student loans, "wage slavery", etc.

This is proven by the fact that there are little to no examples of rich or even moderately wealthy socialists. In reality, socialists are typically low-income millenials (hence socialism's popularity on sites like Reddit).

Interesting that you never see a rich communist.

Except the one they think controls the world

I don't think Soros controls the world.

On another note, I just realized something really awful about Reddit. If you go look at my post history, I made some comment on /r/inceltears calling some guy's post stupid.

They immediately assumed I was from the opposing sub (/r/incels), and started downvoting me and explaining why I was a virgin.

Here, I made a comment criticizing socialists and was instantly assumed to believe certain things (see the comment above, and your own comment).

Everyone seems to have divided themselves into groups that all fall under some blanket ideology.

I don't think Soros controls the world.

then why do you sound just like the people who do?

b-but i thought the universities were all full of (((privileged cosmopolitans))) corrupting young minds with (((leftist propaganda)))?

It's hilarious seeing that all it takes for someone to mindlessly upvote you is for you to make a passive aggressive post responding to something that makes them uncomfortable.

No, it's not """privileged cosmopolitans""" corrupting young minds. If your average socialist went to a school like Stanford (where those privileged cosmopolitans actually reside), they wouldn't be fucking socialists in the first place. Why? Because they'd probably major in CS and get a solid job making a few 100k a year, and SUDDENLY- all those notions of socialism go out the window.

That's what you can't respond to- there's no such thing as a rich socialist (it's socialism now, because apparently there's a difference?).

lol, 3 whole upvotes makes you sperg out this hard?

<-------- The Point.

~whoosh~

<--------- Your head.

ITT: The lolbertarians, ancaps, and wannabe nazis of r/drama use debunked, laughable, lolbertarian arguments.

lower taxes? No thanks HITLER.

You sound poor tho

I'm not going to doxx myself on this board. And i'm quite comfortable with my finances.

You sound like every delusional lolbertarian that thinks they too will become rich one day.

Should be just shy of 390k this year. How u doin

Am I suppose to believe that an r/drama autist makes that amount this year? I'm quite comfortable financially.

Crazy, Right? It's awesome.

im mainly just pissed that my tax dollars are used to blow up brown children on the other side of the world. why the fuck cant they be used to blow up the brown children we have in this country?

This but unironically. You have my vote