Lol yes we help men. Believing all Feminism is from Tumblr is like beleiving Conservative Right Belief the same as POL. Ran Paul doesn't want to gas the jews.
I don't pretend I am. But I agree with men that the gender biases and roles ascribe to both of us hurt us more than help us. How can you be yourself if society is pushing you to a certain direction you don't want to go. Eliminate all toxic masculinity and femininity thats forces us to be characters of our own genders and not ourselves. Men should be allowed to cry and show more emotion. No wonder they kill themselves more often.
Advocate for Male Maternity Leave. Putting women into more Male dominated fields, putting Men in Women Dominated fields. Advocate for fathers to spend more time with their kids.
So does advocating just mean commenting on Reddit? And lol what female dominated fields do you want ment in? And in what ways are any of those ideas besides except advocating for women in male dominated fields feminists in nature?
Feminists have done absolutely nothing (that I am aware of) to help men get into teaching; actually they have a history of opposing male-specific educational grants etc. http://archive.is/33pnq
how? apart from telling men how terrible they are...
Have feminists protested selective service/the draft?
Have they advocated for more equal paternity laws?
Have they advocated for male shelters?
Have they protested against the fact that males are around 99% of workplace deaths?
Equal Paternity leave is agreed to be one of the best ways to shrink the Gender Pay Gap. As for court cases, this is the product of Patriarchal society. Majority of cases are setteled out of court and go to the mother. But the cases that does go to court and to a final judge decisions goes to the Father more often even though that makes a vast minority of cases. Also important to note mothers tend to spend 2 times of time with the children then fathers.
I personally support it. Majority feel like thats something men should handle. Sizeable minority are militantly against it for some odd reason.
Uhh we made rape a frontline issue, which benefit male victims as well. I find the lack of focus on Male Rape victims by MRAs who more focus on false confessions really sad. :<
This is due to Patriarchy, you assumed that Patriarchy automatically means it benefit men?
Calling it "patriarchy" is a deliberate choice with the explicit purpose of creating that connotation. Feminists claiming that it's not what they mean is disingenuous, because it's their own coinage which they refuse to revise - while simultaneously going off about the supposedly sexist connotations of so many other words (even in cases that are completely coincidental to the etymology, e.g. "history").
I find the lack of focus on Male Rape victims by MRAs who more focus on false confessions really sad.
MRAs focus on male rape victims all the time. The standard responses from feminists range from "lol don't be silly men can't be raped" to "lol stop pretending you actually care about rape".
The focus on false accusations (I assume that's what you meant) is a result of statistical trends. That said, the issue there is about far more than criminal prosecution - it's about the social stigma surrounding accusation, and especially about the shoddy statistics work touted by feminists in this arena.
There is also no contradiction or hypocrisy here - thinking that men get vilified by inaccurate stereotypes about rape is not in any way diminishing the crime of rape. Exactly the opposite, in fact - to see those stereotypes as doing harm, necessarily requires accepting the premise that rape is a serious crime. The typical MRA view is that fewer things should be seen as "rape" in general because a broad definition necessarily weakens the claim to seriousness.
Grr, I stetched the definition of Effort posts last time so I wont do it again but this issue is the most wrong.
The typical MRA view is that fewer things should be seen as "rape" in general because a broad definition necessarily weakens the claim to seriousness.
Rape is when you are forced into sex. Thats the definition. It doesn't matter if you were coerced, beaten, drugged its still a violation of people body rights. In the 90s you could legally raped your wife in the US, culturally we have large segments of population who trivilize rape by making exclusions, like "it has to be violent", "the victim orgasmed so he/she must have liked it" or "You didn't fight back so it must have been consensual". All of these are tramatic, limiting the definition of rape beyond forced into unwanted sex is trivialization.
Rape is when you are forced into sex. Thats the definition.
Many things are called rape by feminists that did not involve being forced into sex.
It doesn't matter if you were coerced, beaten, drugged its still a violation of people body rights.
Go to the MR sub and see if you can find a single regular poster who thinks any of those things excuse rape or make it not rape. You will fail.
culturally we have large segments of population who trivilize rape by making exclusions, like "it has to be violent", "the victim orgasmed so he/she must have liked it" or "You didn't fight back so it must have been consensual"
This is greatly exaggerated, and almost always a strawman when applied to individuals in argument.
All of these are tramatic, limiting the definition of rape beyond forced into unwanted sex is trivialization.
"Limiting... beyond" makes no sense. Feminists are the ones trivializing the concept by making it include other situations that don't fit, then expecting the narrow legal understanding to apply broadly.
I dint understand "the patriarchy". A lot of decisions our leaders make do not come from a gendered place. Power and money are goals that don't care about gender. Women in those places of power perform roughly equivalentlly 'evil'. Why not just rail against misuse of power, not a gendered term? You would gain more credibility that way.
The source is of secondary importance to whether the claims made in the link are true/accurate/correct. So maybe you should read it and judge it on its own merits, instead of immediately dismissing the post because of the source.
You guys always act like the radicals are a minority but a lot of the most common talking points that are horribly misguided and misinformed are widely accepted doctrine
I don't read BuzzFeed though I hear if you avoid their editorials and listicles etc their news reporting and investigative pieces are pretty good. I stick with NPR though.
I positive I've heard pieces about feminism and toxic masculinity at least once when listening to NPR. Regardless I never implied it did. I was just responding to your comment about reading BuzzFeed.
No, you've never heard about toxic masculinity on legitimate news service other than to say "hmm, here's a human interest story, look at what these people believe."
/u/tdogg8 if feminists speak out against "toxic masculinity" why have so much more feminists been accused of sexually harassing women rather than critics of feminism? Not trying to have a "gotcha" for you, I want to know what you think.
Feminists: Feminism is just equal rights for all genders (there are more than two apparently).
MRA: What rights do men have that women don’t?
Feminists: Shut up you manspreading virgin!
Male Feminist: You tell him sister! Fucking MRAs piss me off. Hey, why don’t you come back to my place and watch some feminist with me while I masturbate.
I didn't read those comments, because really, what's the point, but I did read this gloriously cuntsplainy, whiny as fuck article in the Guardian about how women are funny, get used to it.
BeingofUniverseSeems you've been cucked. How does it feel, memeipede? 43 points 11 hours ago
Most feminists that I know would probably point to the way female reproduction is handled.
This bitch thinks men have more reproductive rights than women do in America.
I do not see pushing for greater equality in employment and society as well as ending the taboos that persisted after greater legal equality as "stupid".
Of course you don't. Because you're starting with that assumption. But you should probably inspect that assumption.
Very few people are against "equality". But there's a lot of disagreement about what equality is. Our definitions of equality are different, clearly. Which is okay: I call you stupid and you call me...misogynist? I dunno.
But when I call you stupid, that's it. There's nothing else to it, no one really takes it that seriously when someone calls someone else stupid. Conversely, when you imply or explicitly say that people that disagree with you are bigoted or misogynist, you're watering down the term to the point that no one takes it seriously, boy-that-cried-wolf style.
After the first wave of feminism, the following was still true in society: the place for women was the home, women were okay to be discriminated against, domestic violence of both partners was considered a private issue not worth police investigation, sexual harassment was OK, men were the decision makers and women had to follow all their decisions, and so on.
This was all well documented, and contending there wasn't is historical revision on par with "slaves were happy and treated well".
Literally every single one of those is subjective except for the police investigation thing, which is flatly wrong.
Remember that your idea of equality and other people's may not be the same. If there's any wave you're in need of, it's the perspective wave. Like maybe the third one. First one comes in high school when you start to question authority in a simple way, second comes in college when you start to question in it a complex way, the third one comes after that, when you start to question the people that are questioning.
You can't call actual observations of mainstream views "subjective". And in response to varying views of equality, legal inequality is not the same as social inequality. That is inarguable.
...uh? Observations of views are actually subjective lol. And no, I think Trump is a retard. Do you go through life thinking everyone that disagrees with you is a conservative? This is getting stranger and stranger.
"Black people were viewed as inferior during the Jim Crow era". That seem subjective to you? And I never said I think all people who don't think like I do are conservative, just that you have your head stuck in the sand because actual facts disagree with your personal experiences.
What in the world are you going on about? You're now giving examples of other things to support what you were initially saying? Why?
Secondly, even if I did have my head in the sand, what does that have to do with t_d? It's full of idiots, yes, but we have many lefty subs full of idiots, too, so what's exactly the point?
Thirdly, no, you didn't present any facts other than "observations on viewpoints". You need to get out in the world, dude, how old are you? Get to that third wave, my boy. You have the power.
1.I gave evidence of prevailing ideas on the roles if men and women, and you pushed that aside as "subjective". I'm showing you a similar example of an objective statement of a prevailing idea.
I apologize for assuming you were part of that massive circlejerk. It was in your frequent list, so I assumed you were part of that "Mueller is wasting his time" madness.
The point of second-wave feminism was to change the minds of society, which you said wasn't needed, so I presented widely accepted views of the time that were mostly ended by it.
P.s. the latest wave is fourth wave, moving from third wave of sexual openness and expression to the lingering acceptence of casual harassment and discrimination of entrenched institutions, like the metoo movement.
Bro, I'm talking about the wave of perspective. I appreciate you apologizing and that's big of you, but still I want you to at least consider that what you consider objective equality might not be so.
I have no idea what you mean by "wave of perspective" and all google is giving me is painting tutorials. But confining people to rigid gender roles through social and monetary pressure is not equality no matter how you look at it.
Not seeing how your made up theory is relevant to objective observations of mainstream values of society, and I will disregard it since you youraelf admitted to pulling it out of your ass.
This stuff is verifiable, well recorded, and widely available. Accept that it happened already, and come back to the real world. You're sounding like a Holocaust denier when you say not to believe anything anyone says just because.
I have a Master's in IR and have worked in the State Department and now you're saying I sound like a Holocaust denier because I don't think feminism is super important? Have you ever thought maybe the issue is with you?
So you're telling me that women did not experience widespread social discrimination in the period after the suffrage movement? Because that's what it sounds like. And I can legally join the military, if you're so damn obsessed over my age.
Dude, that's the entire point. Look, I give you props for being open to things but damn. It's like you can't imagine any definition for things other than what you've learned. Anyway I gotta go.
But lol tell me you're a college kid cause I'll laugh hard.
No, you seriously sound like a conspiracy nut that disregards everything that's ever come from an authority figure because they're an authority figure, no matter how unbiased or well proven it is.
Basicly, I'm arguing with an contrarian rather than someone with actual values.
Everywhere a woman can’t get an abortion is a place a man can’t get an abortion, either. Also reproductive rights for men end when jizz leaves the body
130 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2017-12-30
Have you posted bussy yet?
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 Standard12 2017-12-30
Not yet.
1 starship_litterbox 2017-12-30
Post bussy
1 htmlcoderexe 2017-12-30
Does it have to be my own?
1 CummyBot-1999 2017-12-30
CAN THE SRDine
anyway, thanks OP. You've reminded me to make an effort post on r/drama on Iran.
1 Standard12 2017-12-30
Did you make your effort post?
1 CummyBot-1999 2017-12-30
Yes I did :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/7n1jqi/irl_drama_massive_protests_in_iran/
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
1 japsock 2017-12-30
feminism does help men though
helping men castrate themselves for example
1 Ultrashitpost 2017-12-30
Yeah, it helps us with sneaking up on potential victims
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Lol yes we help men. Believing all Feminism is from Tumblr is like beleiving Conservative Right Belief the same as POL. Ran Paul doesn't want to gas the jews.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Are you a man?
1 lunchza 2017-12-30
Yes
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Then stop mansplaining
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Nope :p
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Are you an expert on Men's issues?
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
I don't pretend I am. But I agree with men that the gender biases and roles ascribe to both of us hurt us more than help us. How can you be yourself if society is pushing you to a certain direction you don't want to go. Eliminate all toxic masculinity and femininity thats forces us to be characters of our own genders and not ourselves. Men should be allowed to cry and show more emotion. No wonder they kill themselves more often.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Feminists seem pretty intent on having gender specific roles for people though.
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Explain.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
I wouldnt want to mansplaining to a feminists.
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
lol nice cop out
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Feminism being detrimental to men is fine with me, feminists claiming it's not detrimental isn't though.
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
I hate it too when a person refuses to play as generic villain in my political LARP
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
In what ways are you fighting gender roles?
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Advocate for Male Maternity Leave. Putting women into more Male dominated fields, putting Men in Women Dominated fields. Advocate for fathers to spend more time with their kids.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
So does advocating just mean commenting on Reddit? And lol what female dominated fields do you want ment in? And in what ways are any of those ideas besides except advocating for women in male dominated fields feminists in nature?
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
I also vote. Some low level political activism. I have a busy life.
Waitress, Teachers, Nurses.
I mean the goal is to smash gender roles because they were mostly unfair to women, but also unfair to men. I think is all feminist.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Lol, how are you gonna get men to become waitresses? Snip, snip?
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
If society's extremely unfair to women start there, and stop saying you give a fuck about anyone else.
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Muhahahaha yes we are all evil and going to make society like the Wicker Man and you are all our Nicolas Cages >:3
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
I don't believe feminists are evil, I just believe by definition they at best would have no negative effects on the well being of men as a class.
1 double-happiness 2017-12-30
Feminists have done absolutely nothing (that I am aware of) to help men get into teaching; actually they have a history of opposing male-specific educational grants etc. http://archive.is/33pnq
As far as men in nursing goes, check this feminist piece: http://archive.is/pGkVV
1 Gustacho 2017-12-30
I'm a man. Explain it to me.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
1 Gustacho 2017-12-30
Men can be feminists.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
I wouldnt want to mansplaining to a feminists.
1 Gustacho 2017-12-30
I won't accuse you of that. Now for the love of God, explain me why you think feminists seem pretty intent on having gender specific roles for people.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
** Feminist, **Mansplaining,these seem to me defined by defining people by there gender and trying to enforce certain roles due to them.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2017-12-30
Feminist, Mansplaining,these seem to me defined by defining people by there gender and trying to enforce certain roles due to them.
1 zahlman 2017-12-30
When you say this, it's with full understanding that anger is an emotion, right?
1 constantinople_2053 2017-12-30
how? apart from telling men how terrible they are...
Have feminists protested selective service/the draft?
Have they advocated for more equal paternity laws?
Have they advocated for male shelters?
Have they protested against the fact that males are around 99% of workplace deaths?
No?
then what else have they done?
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
This one is split, most Feminists want to abolish the draft all together. Some including me want both genders into the draft. Few want all of the military gone. Tumblr is Tumblr
Equal Paternity leave is agreed to be one of the best ways to shrink the Gender Pay Gap. As for court cases, this is the product of Patriarchal society. Majority of cases are setteled out of court and go to the mother. But the cases that does go to court and to a final judge decisions goes to the Father more often even though that makes a vast minority of cases. Also important to note mothers tend to spend 2 times of time with the children then fathers.
I personally support it. Majority feel like thats something men should handle. Sizeable minority are militantly against it for some odd reason.
Its 93%. This is due to Patriarchy, you assumed that Patriarchy automatically means it benefit men? For a while alot of these dangerous jobs banned women all together. Effort posts are gay so read this one
Uhh we made rape a frontline issue, which benefit male victims as well. I find the lack of focus on Male Rape victims by MRAs who more focus on false confessions really sad. :<
1 xjapxn 2017-12-30
That only makes it half okay. So you should half neck yourself. Like not enough to keep yourself safe but enough to make you a paraplegic or something
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
This is why Political Lesbianism exists/s
1 zahlman 2017-12-30
Calling it "patriarchy" is a deliberate choice with the explicit purpose of creating that connotation. Feminists claiming that it's not what they mean is disingenuous, because it's their own coinage which they refuse to revise - while simultaneously going off about the supposedly sexist connotations of so many other words (even in cases that are completely coincidental to the etymology, e.g. "history").
MRAs focus on male rape victims all the time. The standard responses from feminists range from "lol don't be silly men can't be raped" to "lol stop pretending you actually care about rape".
The focus on false accusations (I assume that's what you meant) is a result of statistical trends. That said, the issue there is about far more than criminal prosecution - it's about the social stigma surrounding accusation, and especially about the shoddy statistics work touted by feminists in this arena.
There is also no contradiction or hypocrisy here - thinking that men get vilified by inaccurate stereotypes about rape is not in any way diminishing the crime of rape. Exactly the opposite, in fact - to see those stereotypes as doing harm, necessarily requires accepting the premise that rape is a serious crime. The typical MRA view is that fewer things should be seen as "rape" in general because a broad definition necessarily weakens the claim to seriousness.
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Grr, I stetched the definition of Effort posts last time so I wont do it again but this issue is the most wrong.
Rape is when you are forced into sex. Thats the definition. It doesn't matter if you were coerced, beaten, drugged its still a violation of people body rights. In the 90s you could legally raped your wife in the US, culturally we have large segments of population who trivilize rape by making exclusions, like "it has to be violent", "the victim orgasmed so he/she must have liked it" or "You didn't fight back so it must have been consensual". All of these are tramatic, limiting the definition of rape beyond forced into unwanted sex is trivialization.
1 zahlman 2017-12-30
Many things are called rape by feminists that did not involve being forced into sex.
Go to the MR sub and see if you can find a single regular poster who thinks any of those things excuse rape or make it not rape. You will fail.
This is greatly exaggerated, and almost always a strawman when applied to individuals in argument.
"Limiting... beyond" makes no sense. Feminists are the ones trivializing the concept by making it include other situations that don't fit, then expecting the narrow legal understanding to apply broadly.
1 Uniquestusername99 2017-12-30
I dint understand "the patriarchy". A lot of decisions our leaders make do not come from a gendered place. Power and money are goals that don't care about gender. Women in those places of power perform roughly equivalentlly 'evil'. Why not just rail against misuse of power, not a gendered term? You would gain more credibility that way.
1 niczar 2017-12-30
I'm not saying all feminists are stupid, there are exceptions, but you believe in the gender pay gap.
1 double-happiness 2017-12-30
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/g2eme/feminists_tell_you_that_the_solution_to_mens/
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
lol using /r/MenRights as a source.
1 double-happiness 2017-12-30
The source is of secondary importance to whether the claims made in the link are true/accurate/correct. So maybe you should read it and judge it on its own merits, instead of immediately dismissing the post because of the source.
1 LefthandedLunatic 2017-12-30
Its the same subreddit who made an effort post saying CIA created Gender Studies and sticky it ><
1 double-happiness 2017-12-30
Again, what subreddit the post I linked came from is secondary to whether its contents are accurate.
1 MasterLawlz 2017-12-30
You guys always act like the radicals are a minority but a lot of the most common talking points that are horribly misguided and misinformed are widely accepted doctrine
1 SethRichOrDieTryin 2017-12-30
cuck
1 xjapxn 2017-12-30
/u/tdogg8
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/632/211/aa0.png
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
https://media.giphy.com/media/QWaSVX9FizaxO/giphy.gif
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
do you actually believe in toxic masculinity? Holy shit what do you do for work
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
Yes and I'm a male escort whom your mother patronizes.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
That's crazy dumb. What happened to you to make you take buzzfeed seriously
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
I don't read BuzzFeed though I hear if you avoid their editorials and listicles etc their news reporting and investigative pieces are pretty good. I stick with NPR though.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
NPR doesn't go on about toxic masculinity, it's not an undergrad sociology student.
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
I positive I've heard pieces about feminism and toxic masculinity at least once when listening to NPR. Regardless I never implied it did. I was just responding to your comment about reading BuzzFeed.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
No, you've never heard about toxic masculinity on legitimate news service other than to say "hmm, here's a human interest story, look at what these people believe."
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
I mean yeah, NPR usually tries to be unbiased in their reporting. Im just saying they've definitely done pieces on the subject.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
If promoting the validity of toxic masculinity is considered biased, that might tell you something.
1 jubbergun 2017-12-30
Holy shit, /u/elsiedeez, this one is an idiot and they still hit you with the sick burn. How does it feel being verbally rekt by a delusional tard?
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Did you think I fucked your mom was a sick burn? Is this Def Comedy Jam?
1 r_juicyasians 2017-12-30
May Allah break your rat spine.
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
https://media.giphy.com/media/QWaSVX9FizaxO/giphy.gif
1 Gtyyler 2017-12-30
/u/tdogg8 if feminists speak out against "toxic masculinity" why have so much more feminists been accused of sexually harassing women rather than critics of feminism? Not trying to have a "gotcha" for you, I want to know what you think.
1 tdogg8 2017-12-30
I'm think that that's an extremely questionable claim.
1 jubbergun 2017-12-30
You're the only one. It has become an accepted axiom that "not all rapists are male feminists, but all male feminists are rapists."
1 Country-asshole 2017-12-30
Feminists: Feminism is just equal rights for all genders (there are more than two apparently).
MRA: What rights do men have that women don’t?
Feminists: Shut up you manspreading virgin!
Male Feminist: You tell him sister! Fucking MRAs piss me off. Hey, why don’t you come back to my place and watch some feminist with me while I masturbate.
1 bishlasagna 2017-12-30
Yeah, but social equality! Which can apparently be obtained by being really CUNTY on the internet. That's social justice!
1 GARBAGE_MACHINE 2017-12-30
"You have any.....potted plants...?"
1 cultish_alibi 2017-12-30
I didn't read those comments, because really, what's the point, but I did read this gloriously cuntsplainy, whiny as fuck article in the Guardian about how women are funny, get used to it.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/dec/30/samantha-bee-jo-brand-funny-women-got-me-through-2017
White women are just getting angrier and angrier as more men realise the benefits of bussy.
1 starship_litterbox 2017-12-30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7izJggqCoA
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-12-30
Nice job not answering his question btw. Also Mr. SPooPy with the "le iz bait hyuck hyuck hyuck" excuse lol. SRDines really lack self awareness lol.
/u/JeffBurk /u/SpoopySkeleman /u/Pandermult
1 kingofthehill5 2017-12-30
I find it funny that if collectively if men decided to take away all women's rights, there is nothing women can do. How are they equal again?
1 pizzashill 2017-12-30
This bitch thinks men have more reproductive rights than women do in America.
Lmao.
1 Protect_Me 2017-12-30
No one answered the question lmao
1 Lawgustmarck 2017-12-30
Day of the canning when?
Remember children sardines tase best on crackers. But don’t have too many or you’ll shit feminism for days.
1 zahlman 2017-12-30
Okay, but how does that translate into a legal right that men have and women don't?
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
/u/semtex94, you accidentally made a cogent point. Were you born in 94?
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
No. And that was intentional.
P.s. do you have any rules about commenting in linked threads? Another thread got posted here and a bunch of people from here raided the thread.
1 itoucheditforacookie 2017-12-30
We don't care as long as it stokes the flames.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
No, the cogent implied point is that subsequent waves are kinda stupid.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
I do not see pushing for greater equality in employment and society as well as ending the taboos that persisted after greater legal equality as "stupid".
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Of course you don't. Because you're starting with that assumption. But you should probably inspect that assumption.
Very few people are against "equality". But there's a lot of disagreement about what equality is. Our definitions of equality are different, clearly. Which is okay: I call you stupid and you call me...misogynist? I dunno.
But when I call you stupid, that's it. There's nothing else to it, no one really takes it that seriously when someone calls someone else stupid. Conversely, when you imply or explicitly say that people that disagree with you are bigoted or misogynist, you're watering down the term to the point that no one takes it seriously, boy-that-cried-wolf style.
Food for thought.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
After the first wave of feminism, the following was still true in society: the place for women was the home, women were okay to be discriminated against, domestic violence of both partners was considered a private issue not worth police investigation, sexual harassment was OK, men were the decision makers and women had to follow all their decisions, and so on.
This was all well documented, and contending there wasn't is historical revision on par with "slaves were happy and treated well".
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Literally every single one of those is subjective except for the police investigation thing, which is flatly wrong.
Remember that your idea of equality and other people's may not be the same. If there's any wave you're in need of, it's the perspective wave. Like maybe the third one. First one comes in high school when you start to question authority in a simple way, second comes in college when you start to question in it a complex way, the third one comes after that, when you start to question the people that are questioning.
Good luck.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
You can't call actual observations of mainstream views "subjective". And in response to varying views of equality, legal inequality is not the same as social inequality. That is inarguable.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
lol is this satirical? Anyway, like I said, good luck. Happy new year's dude.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
You must be one of those "feels over reals" "if I didn't experience it it doesnt exist" kind of people.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
...uh? Observations of views are actually subjective lol. And no, I think Trump is a retard. Do you go through life thinking everyone that disagrees with you is a conservative? This is getting stranger and stranger.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
"Black people were viewed as inferior during the Jim Crow era". That seem subjective to you? And I never said I think all people who don't think like I do are conservative, just that you have your head stuck in the sand because actual facts disagree with your personal experiences.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
What in the world are you going on about? You're now giving examples of other things to support what you were initially saying? Why?
Secondly, even if I did have my head in the sand, what does that have to do with t_d? It's full of idiots, yes, but we have many lefty subs full of idiots, too, so what's exactly the point?
Thirdly, no, you didn't present any facts other than "observations on viewpoints". You need to get out in the world, dude, how old are you? Get to that third wave, my boy. You have the power.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
1.I gave evidence of prevailing ideas on the roles if men and women, and you pushed that aside as "subjective". I'm showing you a similar example of an objective statement of a prevailing idea.
I apologize for assuming you were part of that massive circlejerk. It was in your frequent list, so I assumed you were part of that "Mueller is wasting his time" madness.
The point of second-wave feminism was to change the minds of society, which you said wasn't needed, so I presented widely accepted views of the time that were mostly ended by it.
P.s. the latest wave is fourth wave, moving from third wave of sexual openness and expression to the lingering acceptence of casual harassment and discrimination of entrenched institutions, like the metoo movement.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Bro, I'm talking about the wave of perspective. I appreciate you apologizing and that's big of you, but still I want you to at least consider that what you consider objective equality might not be so.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
I have no idea what you mean by "wave of perspective" and all google is giving me is painting tutorials. But confining people to rigid gender roles through social and monetary pressure is not equality no matter how you look at it.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
I literally posted it to you like 4 hours ago bro. It was something made up on the fly. It's still relevant to this conversation.
Age 15: Question authority on a superficial level ("fuck cops" and "fuck you dad" and all that)
Age 19: Question authority on a more in-depth level ("fuck society and the imperialistic/patriarchal system")
Age 23: Question the people questioning authority ("wait, yes fuck them, but what's the reason for them doing that beyond the basic level?")
I'm looking for you to hit that third wave. I'm 37, there's waves after, it'll blow your mind.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
Not seeing how your made up theory is relevant to objective observations of mainstream values of society, and I will disregard it since you youraelf admitted to pulling it out of your ass.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Again, holy shit.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
This stuff is verifiable, well recorded, and widely available. Accept that it happened already, and come back to the real world. You're sounding like a Holocaust denier when you say not to believe anything anyone says just because.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
lmao dude please tell me how old you are
I have a Master's in IR and have worked in the State Department and now you're saying I sound like a Holocaust denier because I don't think feminism is super important? Have you ever thought maybe the issue is with you?
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
No, you sound like a Holocaust denier because you question concrete facts just because. Right now you sound like a r/iamverysmart post.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
...concrete facts. Bro.. Enjoy your New Year's. That you're refusing to tell me your age is...kinda telling.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
So you're telling me that women did not experience widespread social discrimination in the period after the suffrage movement? Because that's what it sounds like. And I can legally join the military, if you're so damn obsessed over my age.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Define discrimination.
Okay seriously, how old are you, this is getting stupid.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
Facing obstacles and recieving unequal judgement due to gender, race, etc when it is unrelated to whatever the context is.
And if you want to fuck me, just say so, I'm legal.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Dude, that's the entire point. Look, I give you props for being open to things but damn. It's like you can't imagine any definition for things other than what you've learned. Anyway I gotta go.
But lol tell me you're a college kid cause I'll laugh hard.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
What kind of stuff are you on to make it where words aren't what they're defined as? I feel like you would lose it if I showed you a dictionary.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
Is this ironic?
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
No, you seriously sound like a conspiracy nut that disregards everything that's ever come from an authority figure because they're an authority figure, no matter how unbiased or well proven it is.
Basicly, I'm arguing with an contrarian rather than someone with actual values.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
lmao, you're arguing with an adult. That's the issue here.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
An adult acknowledges facts.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
lmao seriously how old are you
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
Why do you keep obessing over my age?
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
I keep asking. You keep not answering.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
Because itvis irrelevant.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
hahaha no, it's not. You read like a naive college kid.
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
And you read like a self-absorbed pseudo-intellectual that is using their assumed elder status as an excuse not to make any actual arguments.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
You couldn't have proved my point any stronger, young lad
1 semtex94 2017-12-30
Actually, you prove MY point due to not even attempting to make a cogent point.
1 elsiedeez 2017-12-30
lmao ok
1 TexhnolyzedLain 2017-12-30
I have my own Drama thread now? Glorious.
1 double-happiness 2017-12-30
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m3pH7EqIy5g/UuHcN7d9cZI/AAAAAAAABdM/cuvJJUflmuk/s1600/kobe1.gif
1 eva_unit_hung 2017-12-30
/u/rockidol do you know how far along the earliest premature baby to survive was?
It's about 4 months and 3 weeks. Go ahead and look it up.
There are grown adults living that survived an abortion attempt.
Knowing this, at which point in a pregnancy is an abortion NOT murder?
1 ComedicSans 2017-12-30
Agreed.
And the first trimester (12 weeks) is a pretty well-accepted rule of thumb.
1 Thestateyest 2017-12-30
/u/beingofuniverse
Everywhere a woman can’t get an abortion is a place a man can’t get an abortion, either. Also reproductive rights for men end when jizz leaves the body
1 zahlman 2017-12-30
/u/JeffBurk
Okay, but how does that translate into a legal right that men have and women don't?
1 TherapyFortheRapy 2017-12-30
When I criticized your overly pro female ways as a sub, I didn't actually want you to make a 100+ Serious Comment post.
I mean, the drama is there in the link. But what the fuck happened here?