With boys we tell them they've given it a good try, and to try again,and that failure is a learning tool so it's okay if you don't succeed the first time. It's not something we tell girls (and this is something that has been studied - I'm not pulling this out of my ass). Little comments that seem helpful can actually be more detrimental to girls as they're navigating learning and interests. It's why researchers find no difference in preference for math between girls and boys when kids are young, but when they get into the teenage years, the percentage of girls who say they don't like, or aren't good at math skyrocket.
If the loss of interest was due to the "thousand little cuts" effect of discouraging comments from educators, we'd see a gradual loss of interest. The fact that there's a spike at the onset of puberty is more likely due to math being perceived as nerdy by suddenly image-conscious girls.
or it's because math becomes more and more abstract with every grade. Advanced concepts being introduced at the same time, to kids of the same age, could cause such a spike too.
Who do you mean, specifically? What sort of jobs were they doing? I think you might be including calculators in this and I wouldn't agree that the sort of math that they were doing was particularly abstract. Arithmetically difficult? Definitely, but not abstract.
Grace Hopper pioneered compiler developement, and was heavily involved in the creation of COBOL.
Ada Lovelace was heavily involved in early computer systems, with her accomplishments including the first algorithm tailored for usage on computer systems. Tbh I shouldn't have mentioned here, there's substantial controversy over the extent of her contributions.
I've heard of them, but I don't think there were many like them. The amount is the point. When feminist sources mention large numbers of women working in early computer science/programming, they tend inflate the numbers by including calculators. That's why I asked about the jobs these "large numbers" of women were doing.
Honestly it's a pipeline issue nowadays. Girls don't go into engineering or computing in high school because they think it's for boys. We need to dispell this feeling among girls that programming is for boys, because the demand for programmers is increasing past our ability to supply them. https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2017/10/04/WomenInDemand.html
Anyways, in early computer science most of the people participating were t least somewhat mathematicians. It's understandable that demographics for abstract maths and modern-day computer engineering differ.
Uncle Bob is shit but he agrees with me on this issue and therefore I post him. As a true radical centrist, I am a proponent of reverse fishhook theory.
Lovelace's story is hilarious. Essentially her mom hated her dad (a poet) so much that she turned her daughter into a math nerd so she wouldn't follow daddy's steps.
I can literally barely add two numbers together in my head and I earned nearly double the average salary straight out of university as a programmer. You don't need a lot of math skills to be a good programmer. Approximately nobody is out there designing new JIT compilers and shit. You just need to understand some retards small business better than him and then make a stupid database so he can fire half his employees. Language an interpersonal skills are waaaay more useful than math.
There are a lot of pop science theories behind this, but there is also a scientific rationale explained by IQ distribution between the genders.
To put it bluntly - men and women have different distributions of intelligence. Men have a higher distribution towards both extremes of low intelligence and high intelligence. Women on average tend to cluster towards the middle more than boys.
Therefor in any random population sample:
A randomly selected woman is likely to be more intelligent than a randomly selected man.
The stupidest person in the group is likely to be a man.
The smartest person in the group is also likely to be a man.
Once you understand this, then certain observed patterns like the prevalence of men in the hard sciences or that women have a higher graduation rate than men start to make perfect sense.
IQ doesn't actually have much practical value if you're not substantially below average, m8. You people think it's synonymous with actual practical intelligence for some reason.
Anyways, the likely cause is a simple pipeline issue. Girls think that enginnering is for boys and so don't go into it much in high school.
So, do you have any actual evidence to support your claim that it's a hormonal issue? Honestly, it just seems like kids become more self-conscious over whats girly or boyish when they hit puberty.
Girls are much more likely to be engaged in computer science if they have female teachers, while the gender of the instructor doesn't influence boys' interest, according to the study.
Nope, that's not what the full report says. Boys play with mechanical toys and computers more than girls do, but there's no evidence to suggest that it's biological.
Furthermore, it has been shown that things like having an inspiring female teacher improves how many girls go into engineering fields, supporting the theory that it's due to self-conscious teen girls thinking that coding is for boys.
The report shows that more girls go into programming due to things like YouTubers or whatever. This just shows the importance of early engineering motivation for girls in a format they're for whatever reason more receptive to.
That's interesting but it's anecdotal. Plenty of research shows that people inherit about 80% of themselves, their talents, their personalities, their proclivities, even their political affiliation, from their parents.
lmao it's not anecdotal you can raise a child into anything, just doing so is unethical.
Raising a daughter to become a Engineer is no harder then being the top chess master.
Plenty of research shows that people inherit about 80% of themselves, their talents, their personalities, their proclivities, even their political affiliation, from their parents.
No there's not plenty of research showing that rofl, the entire field is banned from doing things that would let us show that because of the hippies who stop us and cause people to call it not real science and sof.
You should educate yourself about behavioural genetics and twin studies. Yes, 80%. Don't reply. I'm not going to waste any more time on someone as uneducated and dumb as you.
Thanks, tired of redditors who are dumb Twin studies to think Twin studies apply to the whole of what makes a person a person
"Behavioral Genetics" for example is now where close to being able to prove that %80 of your personality is due solely to your genetics and in fact the the discipline studies environmental factors rather deeply but retards who google twin articles and misinterpret them this badly like /u/gw65kg wouldn't know that.
A man raised his child to invent Yiddish, it's possible to raise a child to build bridges that falls down in Florida.
Trans-people taking hormones is ethical. Trans-men taking testosterone has been shown to increase their interest in physics and improve their navigational abilities while hampering their language abilities.
Interesting. It doesn't directly pertain to the current subject. If testosterone gives rise to typically male characteristics, then it stands to reason estrogen would do the same for female characteristics. So puberty and hormones might have something to do with it, and not just genetics more generally.
Trans-men taking testosterone has increased their interest in physics and improved their navigational abilities while hampering their language abilities.
Anyways, the likely cause is a simple pipeline issue.
This is demonstratively not true. We've been trying to pipeline women into various scientific and engineering fields for over a generation with no success. But yes, let's keep doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why it doesn't work. That sounds brilliant.
This is demonstratively not true. We've been trying to pipeline women into various scientific and engineering fields for over a generation with no success. But yes, let's keep doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why it doesn't work. That sounds brilliant.
Then we've been going about it the wrong way. You've got not a shred of evidence to support your claim that women are intrinsically worse at programming, and it's pretty well-established that self-conscious tweens have a habit of thinking of engineering as something boys do.
Then we've been going about it the wrong way. You've got not a shred of evidence to support your claim that women are intrinsically worse at programming
Well, I've never said that. I said that IQ distribution is different between the genders and we have multiple longitudinal studies that prove this.
it's pretty well-established that self-conscious tweens have a habit of thinking of engineering as something boys do
Yeah, let's go with that idea over science. This has worked so well in the past. I mean, obviously we just need to encourage girls more. Like throw them parties or something for selecting engineering as a major in university and maybe giving them a car if they actually stick with it to graduation. Because for some reason a highly retarded segment of the population refuses to acknowledge scientific facts.
Well, I've never said that. I said that IQ distribution is different between the genders and we have multiple longitudinal studies that prove this.
And IQ means jack shit with regards to anything practical if it isn't substantially below 100.
Yeah, let's go with that idea over science.
What science? What science have you provided which shows girls to be intrinsically worse at engineering?
On the other hand, it has been shown that good teachers and thinking that coding is for girls is instrumen tal in whether girls go into software engineering.
“Researchers found that computing appeal for girls peaks in middle school, where having an inspiring teacher and thinking that coding is “for girls” are instrumental in sparking interest. The appeal dips in high school in what researchers call the “high school trap” because of a lack of friends in coding classes or the lack of those classes at all."
And IQ means jack shit with regards to anything practical if it isn't substantially below 100.
Demonstratively untrue, like everything else you're saying. We are discussing the correlation of IQ to profession. The top occupations by intelligence are science, math, engineering and medicine. These are also the most under served by women, for reasons that I already described that you refuse to accept.
What science? What science have you provided which shows girls to be intrinsically worse at engineering?
Again, I never said that. I said intelligence distribution is different in the genders. I find it funny that we're essentially arguing about intelligence, yet you seem incapable of parsing a simple statement in English. I'll break it down for you.
I'm not saying women are incapable of being engineers.
I'm saying that the distribution of capable engineers is different between the sexes.
Everything I've said is easily enough to verify if you can stop huffing the gussy fumes for a second.
So? This is the same nonsense garbage people have been saying for almost two generations now and showing little to no effect. But yeah, like I said before, let's totally double down on something that's never worked because this time it totally will. Totes.
Demonstratively untrue, like everything else you're saying. We are discussing the correlation of IQ to profession. The top occupations by intelligence are science, math, engineering and medicine. These are also the most under served by women, for reasons that I already described that you refuse to accept.
Wrong. IQ test scores are affected substantially by practice. Correlation does not imply causation; people going into STEM fields may have also experienced more mental stimulation throughout their lives.
So? This is the same nonsense garbage people have been saying for almost two generations now and showing little to no effect.
So you'll ignore how the report has shown that girls having a capable role model to look up to greatly helps how many of them go into engineering fields?
In general, most young boys build and explore; play with blocks, trains, etc.; and engage in activity and movement. For a typical boy, a computer can be the ultimate toy that allows him to pursue his interests, and this can develop into an intense passion early on. [...] For the most part, however, girls tend to prefer social interaction. Most girls develop an interest in computing later through social media and YouTubers, girl-focused games, or through math, science and computing courses. They typically do not develop the intense interest in computing at an early age like some boys do – they may never experience that level of interest (Margolis 2003).” – Google Research Blog 2015
This clearly has absolutely nothing to do with IQ score distributions.Have you considered the fact that, maybe, just maybe, previous efforts have been the exact same cheesy, tone-deaf, innefectual shit stuff like healthy eating campaigns, anti-drug campaigns or whatever in schools have been?
The top occupations by intelligence are science, math, engineering and medicine.
As someone "in" the medical field, women have made, I'm assuming the most progress there.
The reason being, its the easiest to fudge the grades in. Problem solving has taken a back seat to the point that its often not there at all, and you can pass with just memorizing basically "medical recipes" "You see this, you do this" and thats how things are tested.
This is bad for everyone because its increased the number of shitty doctors, both male and female. It was done more to get minorities to manage to pass (barely) but as a side effect you now have around 50% women in things like med and dental school.
You can't really play those games in math and engineering. You can't put in an essay (like they did the mcat) to fudge scores. You can't take out the problem solving, like they did the GRE (they took out the logic section in the very early 90's and replaced it with, an essay...).
The problem, as I see it, is that certain people are mortally offended at the idea that there is inequality in distribution of certain biological attributes. If we're talking things like "Blonde hair" or "Green Eyes", no one really gives a shit, but as soon as those things can affect your potential status in life, such as intelligence, then whoooo boy are you a heretic for backing actual scientific studies that prove this.
The thing that gets me is that only an utter retard would actually look at this and derive an opinion like, "Women can't be engineers". For fucks sake, no one is saying that. We're just saying that there aren't as many women suited for it and I'm sure the ones that are are just as good as their male counter parts.
But yeah, rather than just accepting this, they continue to waste money and lower standards. As you alluded to - there is a reason why women drop out of STEM classes more frequently than men do and it becomes even more apparent that the graduation rates get smaller and smaller the less subjective the material is, with math and physics having the lowest female graduation rates compared to life sciences which has the highest.
I mean, the idea that a woman who majors in math or physics is going to fail to graduate because we didn't tell her she was good at math or physics is utterly asinine. If anything, it's probably the opposite - we spent a lot of time convincing them they were good at it and they tried and then failed at it.
It's like, sure if you promote STEM you're going to get more capable women going into it, but you're also going to get a lot of incompetent ones as well, so don't be surprised when they fail for fucks sake.
we spent a lot of time convincing them they were good at it and they tried and then failed at it.
My wife is good at math but bad at science as a thing. They basically bribed her to go into engineering. She failed out and then they wouldn't let her back into the college she left because ... her grades were too low. They basically hurt her job prospects and life by saying "Oh you had a 32 on the math ACT, please be an engineer as a woman!!!oneone
My sister’s med-school professor said that you only retain about 20% of what you learned throughout your studies and the real learning comes when you’re on the ground floor.
You can't genuinely tell someone to KYS now, because the admins will ban you. It's been an ongoing thing for the past few weeks. Hell, even a joking KYS will get you canned.
There are an equal population of men and women. Get two pieces of string of the same length, one for boys and one for girls. Make a bell curve for the women, then make a bell curve for the men, but at the last 5% of each side, double the string back on itself. Observe the difference.
then certain observed patterns like the prevalence of men in the hard sciences or that women have a higher graduation rate than men start to make perfect sense.
unless you have hard numbers you can't make that assertion.
I don't feel like going searching for any other sources but there is a visuospatial and mathematical demand imposed by the STEM fields that is not present elsewhere. It has for a long time been known that STEM majors score higher on aptitude tests than any other field wth the single exception of philosophy.
But the guy you are responding to is wrong about the IQ variability being the sole cause of female underrepresentation in STEM. That is mostly explained by natural proclivities. The IQ variability thing only really represents underrepresentation at the extreme ends like number of distinguished female academics or chess players or whatever. At about an IQ of 145 the distribution is still a healthy 2/3 female.
The source of those stats is really fishy. Their distribution of Verbal and Quantitative scores is weird and doesn't match the College Board's data at all. The ETS source has every major except for English scoring higher on Quant (often significantly so), but the national averages give Verbal a slight edge.
They also categorize their majors with a strange focus on STEM. They break up the different types of engineering to inflate the numbers, but then make big groupings like "humanities" that could contain majors that are pretty different (they don't even say what majors are included).
I’m an engineer and I work with and interview a lot of grils. I just don’t buy the idea that it comes down to an intelligence difference. More likely it’s an issue of interest. Women often find it unbearable to stare at a screen for 12 hours figuring out the minutia of how some library works. Actually that’s understandable, the weird part is that some people find this shit interesting
Yeah I get that you are suggesting a distribution difference, but I don’t buy that most engineers represent the extreme upper end of intelligence. Maybe that’s true at other companies
To put it bluntly - men and women have different distributions of intelligence. Men have a higher distribution towards both extremes of low intelligence and high intelligence. Women on average tend to cluster towards the middle more than men.
Therefor in any random population sample:
A randomly selected woman is likely to be more intelligent than a randomly selected man.
The stupidest person in the group is likely to be a man.
The smartest person in the group is also likely to be a man.
The first of your conclusions is not supported by the data. Assuming that the mean intelligence is equal, a randomly-selected woman is likely to be as intelligent as a randomly-selected man.
This assumes that both sexes are indeed equally intelligent on average - an assertion that needs evidentiary support but is usually short-circuited by cries of "sexism!".
The higher graduation rate of women can be plausibly explained by the sustained program to make higher education more attractive to women and the willingness to hand degrees out for "soft" subjects.
No, the set-up was that both IQ ranges were normally distributed, just with different variance, and your (unreasonably small) data set is (unreasonably) skewed.
this. the average math or physics major has like a 135+ IQ, and even a small difference in standard deviation between populations can mean a massive imbalance in people with certain scores at the extreme ends
Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih al-Bukhari 304)
A randomly selected woman is likely to be more intelligent than a randomly selected man.
This is only true if the mean IQ for women is higher, studies I've seen have shown no statistically significant difference.
In reality if you have a randomly selected group of people who all have above average IQ then the average male IQ will be higher. On the other hand if you have a group of all below average IQ then the average female IQ will be higher.
Since one would expect college graduates to have above average IQs you'd expect that more graduates would be men. There is clearly something else at play here.
Whether or not your IQ distribution theory is true, if we pretend it's correct for the sake of argument your point is still bullshit. Engineering is not some elite discipline where only people with a really high IQ can succeed. I know STEMlords love to tell themselves that they're some kind of academic elites but as someone who graduated from an engineering program I can promise you that it is not a sign of genius IQ. Like most programs there is a wide mix of people. Some of them are very smart, clearly on the high end of the IQ spectrum and some of them are literal mouth breathing retards. You can get pretty far in school with just a little hard work and with the increased prevalence of hand holding in college, the easiness of cheating (cheating is MASSIVE in every engineering program I'm familiar with. Go to any large research institution and you'll fine course notes, HW solutions and previous exams online), and the ability to class shop (only take classes from easy professors) with just a little but of guile (or more often support from your helicopter parents) you too can be an engineering graduate and feel superior about your degree.
The best part of that narrative is the idea that boys are never discouraged.
Which is so much rank horseshit. I got fucking beat up and literallt pushed into my locker for being a nerd. The difference is, instead of getting discouraged, it just fueled the determination to get into a goodncollege, make asstons of money and come back later to shit down those fuckers necks with my success.
Also, aren't a lot of programmers at least somewhat self-taught? It might be a little different now, but 10 years ago, the dudes who excelled in CS classes often did so because they had been toying around with programming on their own throughout high school and middle school. Nothing's stopping girls in middle school from messing around with "hello world" on their own time.
It was a running joke at my first internship that I got my job because I was sleeping with my boss. My boss was my best friend's dad and I had known him for more than a decade.
Like, I understand that the company didn't have a formal internship program and my friend's dad made a job for me so I could get my foot in the door with an internship, but that has nothing to do with me being a girl. But sure, I only landed my job because I'm sleeping with a married man.
"a job was created just for me due to my daddy's connections, but i still found a way to make me the victim."
Nah, I've had interns at my last firm who only got their position because their daddy is golfing buddies with an executive. Plenty of nepotism without that kind of stuff.
Ada Lovelace, Grace hopper, etc etc are all terrible engineers apparently. I'm an actual programmer and I've met quite a few women who cna code circles around me.
Babbage never actually built a computer and Ada Lovelace never actually programmed anything (because Babbage’s “computer” literally didn’t exist). She femsplained math to mathematicians and 100+ years later she was made a hero for it.
Ok, now I'm mad. People need to keep the sacred names of Turing and the other heroes out of their gender war bullshit. Especially the gender war bullshit.
Not really. All the best chefs are men. But men are willing to deal with mediocre sandwiches just so their women can feel like they contribute in a meaningful way other than their sex appeal
"Doesn't deserve it" is putting it mildly. From what the guy is saying, the winning group should have been kicked out of the competition for their submission
Having worked at the DoD, most of these get pushed into management
Working at an office that was 95% men but everyone above me was a woman was a big reason I left, tbh. The last straw was when I found out they’d offered a management role to a borderline autistic junior employee over 3 very qualified men (to her credit, she refused)
Okay so obviously you had a bad experience and are trying to blanket this as the norm
That's literally what their entire sub is based on. Except most of their own bad experiences are in their own head.
And she proves that in the very next paragraph:
7th grade Algebra (which was the honors math track). Struggled with the first test and received a B or a C. My teacher told me "It's okay. Not everyone is good at math. If you need to we can move you into the pre-Algebra class so it's a little easier for you." I mean, she MIGHT have said that to every student who didn't get an A, but I doubt it. We condition girls to feel like it's bad to fail and to do something easier and succeed.
Somehow she manages to twist her (female) teacher trying to teach her dumb ass into sexism against women. Honestly, it's kind of impressive.
Most students don't take algebra until 8th grade or high school. If she was struggling after the first test (which is usually a review of pre-algrebra topics) then yea, I can see why the teacher would be concern.
This is why it's really shitty to have renamed gender norms to the patriarchy. It makes it sound like a cabal of men design and implement it on greater society.
It’s funny that they assume men don’t experience adversity like this. When I was trying to get into software as a self taught engineer I failed over 14 interviews and was told in no uncertain terms that I was not cut out for this.
Do you actually know that the girls team won because they were girls and not because the judges were bad or were looking for different things than you thought?
Do you actually know that any time a woman has been passed-up for promotion, not hired, or someone at work took a disliking to her, that it was because she was a woman and not because something about her personality didn't sit well with somebody?
An aspect of that is realising that anything different that happens to a woman is not necessarily because she's a woman
If only every feminist blogger out there realized this, maybe they'd stop complaining about non-existent problems. Bad things happen to everyone.
Anyway, it sucks that this has happened to you, but please don't make assumptions on women's experiences and treatment in stem based on a singular experience you had when you're assuming the motivations of some other people.
That being said, you're delusional if you don't think there's lots of people out there (in my experience, very few of them are actually engineers; most of them are business guys who are involved in the field somehow) who won't bend over backwards to go "See?! Women can do it, too!", even as the person they're pointing at doesn't deserve any kind of recognition.
I've never see a competition judged accurately by my own standards. They rarely have actual engineers judging them. But this is pretty egregious; they didn't even follow the rules and should be disqualified. Either they got picked because they're women, nobody wanted to point it out because they're women, or the judges and everyone there are wholly incompetent. But it strikes me as odd that nobody would point out that they broke the rules, especially when others have financial incentive to be bumped-up in the rankings.
Thanks for the mention I guess. Anyway, the crux of what I was trying to say is this dude took one shitty situation (and obviously unfair situation) and came to the conclusion that all women always get unfair advantages in stem when he had no idea why the team won (probably because the judges were bad, or all the other teams were terrible at presenting their solutions even if the code was good). Most likely there were several complaints about this occurring if what the OP said was accurately conveyed. Anyway, I saw OP mention he was aiming for the top 3 and then no mention of getting a place so I imagine he was a tiny bit salty and could have embellished the facts a little.
I do think there are lots of people out there looking for women to achieve despite their skills. I think there are probably far more (the large majority) who don't care either way, and a smaller group (but bigger than the first) that are stuck in their 'old boys club' ways.
If only every feminist blogger out there realised this...
Most feminist bloggers don't think sexism is the result of individual actions, but are concerned when there are patterns on a wider scale that disproportionality affect one group (like male suicide rates). Now, if you can somehow show that engineering competitions are disproportionality won by women, i agree that's something to be concerned about. If it's only occurring in this one situation, then concluding that the team won because they were women is not a reasonable conclusion.
Do you actually know that every time a women has been passed up for a promotion...
Bro, don't put words in my mouth. I've never said that at all, in fact i do not think that a woman being passed up for a promotion is because she is a woman, but other factors like you said. But you have to consider if the other factors are influenced by being a women. For example lack of emotionality is generally discouraged in the socialisation of girls, but is maybe a quality that is desired in a leader (e.g people saying Hilary Clinton might start a nuclear war if she gets too emotional). Anyway, this is an institutional level problem and to do with what companies generally value and what we are expecting of and teaching to men and women.
Don’t expect real engagement here. I suspect most people aren’t going to even really read what you wrote. I at least appreciate the attempt though, this place needs more ideological diversity in its seriousposters
??? There’s pizzashill who’s leftwing but not a feminist, there are a few TERFs who are in a weird ideological spot, and there’s the Daddy Defense Force as far as serial seriousposters
Then there are users who seriouspost occasionally who mostly just hate trans people and le SJWs
Most other seriousposting I see is people pinged from linked threads that aren’t really political defending anything from pedophilia to dogfucking
This place is literally nothing but a left-wing circle jerk at this point. Of course everyone not a left-winger is getting downvoted.
You've all made it very obvious. There is indeed space between TD (Which I don't think I've ever even posted on) and SRD, which this place has become. Sort by controversial. Any post picking on women or the left, is controversial. Most posts picking on men and the right, are not.
It's not like you guys are even trying to hide it. You've been posting BRDs for days. Sharia Blue has a heavy presence here, including among the mods, and BRD posts are the mods signalling that this sub is now fallen to the fempire. Hence why any post mocking a woman is suddenly downvoted, and a ton of weird SRD leftist shit is getting upvoted.
Bird=BRD=Bring Reddit Down; a SRS meme. Try to deny it by calling it out in plain sight, but it is what it is.
It's time for anyone else just plain leave this sub, block its regulars and go hang out in bigger, better subs, because if every place is a partisan circlejerk (and this place definitely has been for the last few months), we're better off in our own circlejerk subs, like CringeAnarchy, which is a lot bigger than place, and no more or less full of retards. /r/drama is just SRS/CB2 circlejerking at this point. Literally nothing they say makes sense, but they all frantically upvote each other and downvote anyone else.
I won't be interacting with any of you further on this post. You know what's happening here. It's very obvious.
But my liege, everyone on CringeAnarchy keeps calling me a nigger... While here maybe only one or two people will and at least they try to be funny with it.
I am actually new to this sub. No idea how I got here or what it is. And I think it is pretty tame.
Okay. As a female Engineering newbe - that really pissed me off.
Like I work hard so I can eat the weaker members of my profession for breakfast and laugh at their demise.
Then someone tries to treat women with kiddie gloves cause feemaleee? Fuck that. Nobody likes the incompetent person who only fills a minority status on their team.
Also imagine being the only competent programmer on that girl group.
It sucks because shit like this only encourages the "diversity hire" trope but lets be real, until you can call this out without a feminist lynch mob trying to ruin you it will just continue.
It's a special sort of hell knowing that the girls who called you a "paranoid bitch" for trying to get them to do crap, vetoed all your ideas as lame and then copied random shit from github while you spent the night actually coding will be putting that competition on their resume.
Said chicks will also then rub "how you overreacted during it because we won anyways" in your face later on.
In my professional life I have never faced the girl or minority who is only there to fill a quota. Every woman and minority I have worked with was treated equally and went up in rank based on their merit. The only time I ever experienced different standards was for a girl who sucked at her job but was super hot and flirted with her old horny boss.
Yeah, i think usually what happens is that in college they figure out that they'll get paid better and have less work if they switch over to a marketing/business major.
lol, I worked for a contracting company which specialized in hiring incompetent NAMs (did a lot of work for the government, obvs) backed by actually competent old white dudes who did the real work
Not to say there wasn’t smart black programmers, they were just in crazy high demand (and knew it) so either got promoted or left for better gigs
This is quite sad! But I feel she should keep the win because I can only imagine the amount hours she put in on her knees and back to get where she’s at😋.
7th grade Algebra (which was the honors math track). Struggled with the first test and received a B or a C. My teacher told me "It's okay. Not everyone is good at math. If you need to we can move you into the pre-Algebra class so it's a little easier for you." I mean, she MIGHT have said that to every student who didn't get an A, but I doubt it.
This is a FUCKING OUTRAGE. Move her into the pre-Algebra class so it's a little easier??? What a fucking cunt. I would have chinned her.
What is "copyleft"? Is it the same as "open source"?
"Copyleft" refers to licenses that allow derivative works but require them to use the same license as the original work. For example, if you write some software and release it under the GNU General Public License (a widely-used copyleft license), and then someone else modifies that software and distributes their modified version, the modified version must be licensed under the GNU GPL too — including any new code written specifically to go into the modified version. Both the original and the new work are Open Source; the copyleft license simply ensures that property is perpetuated to all downstream derivatives. (There is at least one copyleft license, the Affero GPL, that even requires you to offer the source code, under the AGPL, to anyone to whom you make the software's functionality available as a network service — however, most copyleft licenses activate their share-and-share-alike requirement on distribution of a copy of the software itself. You should read the license to understand its requirements for source code distribution.)
How do we know that the winning team was not affiliated with the company and predetermined to win anyways because they didn't want to pay out the prize money and just gave them a couple bills for sitting in?
226 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-04-25
Sarcasm and flippant behavior represent contempt, which is the opposite of intellectual integrity. You seem like a real fool of a human.
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 SmurfPrivilege 2018-04-25
If the loss of interest was due to the "thousand little cuts" effect of discouraging comments from educators, we'd see a gradual loss of interest. The fact that there's a spike at the onset of puberty is more likely due to math being perceived as nerdy by suddenly image-conscious girls.
1 cavides 2018-04-25
or it's because math becomes more and more abstract with every grade. Advanced concepts being introduced at the same time, to kids of the same age, could cause such a spike too.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Nah, then we wouldn't have such a large number of people in early computer engineering, which was mostly complicated maths, being women.
1 cavides 2018-04-25
Who do you mean, specifically? What sort of jobs were they doing? I think you might be including calculators in this and I wouldn't agree that the sort of math that they were doing was particularly abstract. Arithmetically difficult? Definitely, but not abstract.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Grace Hopper pioneered compiler developement, and was heavily involved in the creation of COBOL.
Ada Lovelace was heavily involved in early computer systems, with her accomplishments including the first algorithm tailored for usage on computer systems. Tbh I shouldn't have mentioned here, there's substantial controversy over the extent of her contributions.
1 cavides 2018-04-25
I've heard of them, but I don't think there were many like them. The amount is the point. When feminist sources mention large numbers of women working in early computer science/programming, they tend inflate the numbers by including calculators. That's why I asked about the jobs these "large numbers" of women were doing.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Honestly it's a pipeline issue nowadays. Girls don't go into engineering or computing in high school because they think it's for boys. We need to dispell this feeling among girls that programming is for boys, because the demand for programmers is increasing past our ability to supply them. https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2017/10/04/WomenInDemand.html
Anyways, in early computer science most of the people participating were t least somewhat mathematicians. It's understandable that demographics for abstract maths and modern-day computer engineering differ.
1 LedinToke 2018-04-25
i'm an engineer but yall are nerds
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
are you even a programmer? lmfao
linking fucking uncle bob. gross.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Uncle Bob is shit but he agrees with me on this issue and therefore I post him. As a true radical centrist, I am a proponent of reverse fishhook theory.
1 Imgur_Lurker 2018-04-25
He's full of shit, "many of the leading figures were all women" is completely made up for IBM at least.
Women got those men coffee and he' womenwashing history
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Ah yes, Grace Hopper was just there to get men coffee.
1 Imgur_Lurker 2018-04-25
Leading Figures of Programming
Grace Hopper
lol
Howard H. Aiken you fuckboi
1 MooseHeckler 2018-04-25
Ada Lovelace and Babbage were equally important.
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
Lovelace's story is hilarious. Essentially her mom hated her dad (a poet) so much that she turned her daughter into a math nerd so she wouldn't follow daddy's steps.
1 totalrandomperson 2018-04-25
Mod her
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
it's the ultimate revenge on an kit major - turning their only kid into a STEM lord.
1 MooseHeckler 2018-04-25
Didn't her father have serious trouble keeping it in his pants?
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
No fun you beat me too it
1 cvetley 2018-04-25
they weren't a large number of people, though. Also a selected group doesn't disprove general population trends
1 nyekks 2018-04-25
I can literally barely add two numbers together in my head and I earned nearly double the average salary straight out of university as a programmer. You don't need a lot of math skills to be a good programmer. Approximately nobody is out there designing new JIT compilers and shit. You just need to understand some retards small business better than him and then make a stupid database so he can fire half his employees. Language an interpersonal skills are waaaay more useful than math.
1 bugslife22112 2018-04-25
Yeah but if you wanna work for the heavies you have to pass white board loops which are definitely a test of intelligence, in part
1 nyekks 2018-04-25
It's a shame that's held up as being the whole software industry though, when its a tiny part of it.
Personally, I like sitting opposite the owner of the company and being allowed to tell him to fuck off if I don't like how something's done.
1 bugslife22112 2018-04-25
I mean the ten largest companies in the industry is hardly a small part of the industry (and most start ups and smaller companies do it as well)
1 cvetley 2018-04-25
t. JS programmer
1 MooseHeckler 2018-04-25
Its a real language.
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
It-it-its a real language!!!
yeah but the ecosystem is terrible
> npm
> node
wewlad
1 MooseHeckler 2018-04-25
Fight me in the back of the parking lot!!!
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
LEFT
P A D
A
D
1 MooseHeckler 2018-04-25
:(
1 MooseHeckler 2018-04-25
We will keep your recommendationss to KYS.
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
To get out of university you had to take higher level math even if programming doesn't absolutely require linear algebra
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Yep. It's a pipeline problem, due to programming and engineering being perceived as being something for boys by schoolgoing girls. https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2017/10/04/WomenInDemand.html
1 OnlyRacistOnReddit 2018-04-25
Why do you keep linking to Uncle Bob? Just because he agrees with you doesn't mean he or you are right.
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
There are a lot of pop science theories behind this, but there is also a scientific rationale explained by IQ distribution between the genders.
To put it bluntly - men and women have different distributions of intelligence. Men have a higher distribution towards both extremes of low intelligence and high intelligence. Women on average tend to cluster towards the middle more than boys.
Therefor in any random population sample:
A randomly selected woman is likely to be more intelligent than a randomly selected man.
The stupidest person in the group is likely to be a man.
The smartest person in the group is also likely to be a man.
Once you understand this, then certain observed patterns like the prevalence of men in the hard sciences or that women have a higher graduation rate than men start to make perfect sense.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
IQ doesn't actually have much practical value if you're not substantially below average, m8. You people think it's synonymous with actual practical intelligence for some reason.
Anyways, the likely cause is a simple pipeline issue. Girls think that enginnering is for boys and so don't go into it much in high school.
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
Or it could be some sort of hormonal issue since, as /u/SmurfPrivilege points out, the change happens with puberty.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
So, do you have any actual evidence to support your claim that it's a hormonal issue? Honestly, it just seems like kids become more self-conscious over whats girly or boyish when they hit puberty.
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
No, I don't. And no one has any evidence for any of the other theories, either.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
There actually is evidence.
https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mine/articles/2016-10-20/study-computer-science-gender-gap-widens-despite-increase-in-jobs
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
So because of women's predilection for socialisation, women aren't going into tech? That theory supports a genetic cause for the lack of interest.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Nope, that's not what the full report says. Boys play with mechanical toys and computers more than girls do, but there's no evidence to suggest that it's biological.
Furthermore, it has been shown that things like having an inspiring female teacher improves how many girls go into engineering fields, supporting the theory that it's due to self-conscious teen girls thinking that coding is for boys.
The report shows that more girls go into programming due to things like YouTubers or whatever. This just shows the importance of early engineering motivation for girls in a format they're for whatever reason more receptive to.
1 ProgressiveFragility 2018-04-25
even just a few days old, boy babies show more interest in mechanical toys than girl babies.
it's 100% biological. stop deluding yourself
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
This is not evidence. It's about the furthest thing from evidence that you could find. It's conjecture.
1 Imgur_Lurker 2018-04-25
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r
Link is all messed up because lol Hungarians.
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
That's interesting but it's anecdotal. Plenty of research shows that people inherit about 80% of themselves, their talents, their personalities, their proclivities, even their political affiliation, from their parents.
1 Imgur_Lurker 2018-04-25
lmao it's not anecdotal you can raise a child into anything, just doing so is unethical.
Raising a daughter to become a Engineer is no harder then being the top chess master.
No there's not plenty of research showing that rofl, the entire field is banned from doing things that would let us show that because of the hippies who stop us and cause people to call it not real science and sof.
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
You should educate yourself about behavioural genetics and twin studies. Yes, 80%. Don't reply. I'm not going to waste any more time on someone as uneducated and dumb as you.
1 Imgur_Lurker 2018-04-25
Lmao Do I need to post me degree mister redditor who knows so much that he doesn't know we don't quantify things like that.
I'm sure a retard who gets assblasted over someone telling him about studies conducted before he was born is just so informed on the field.
I'm just so interested in your opinion on Twin Studies that prove it's impossible to raise Daughters to be Engineers lmao.
You're so dumb you don't know how dumb you are
1 CuddlyMonkey1 2018-04-25
I <3 U
1 Imgur_Lurker 2018-04-25
Thanks, tired of redditors who are dumb Twin studies to think Twin studies apply to the whole of what makes a person a person
"Behavioral Genetics" for example is now where close to being able to prove that %80 of your personality is due solely to your genetics and in fact the the discipline studies environmental factors rather deeply but retards who google twin articles and misinterpret them this badly like /u/gw65kg wouldn't know that.
A man raised his child to invent Yiddish, it's possible to raise a child to build bridges that falls down in Florida.
1 ffbtaw 2018-04-25
Trans-people taking hormones is ethical. Trans-men taking testosterone has been shown to increase their interest in physics and improve their navigational abilities while hampering their language abilities.
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
Haven't heard about that. I know there are emotional/sexual changes. Any links you can provide?
1 ffbtaw 2018-04-25
Reduction in verbal ability when taking testosterone associated with decreased grey matter volume
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/econ-rst082815.php
Spatial Reasoning
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4949561/
1 gw65kg 2018-04-25
Interesting. It doesn't directly pertain to the current subject. If testosterone gives rise to typically male characteristics, then it stands to reason estrogen would do the same for female characteristics. So puberty and hormones might have something to do with it, and not just genetics more generally.
1 ffbtaw 2018-04-25
Trans-men taking testosterone has increased their interest in physics and improved their navigational abilities while hampering their language abilities.
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
Who exactly are "you people"?
This is demonstratively not true. We've been trying to pipeline women into various scientific and engineering fields for over a generation with no success. But yes, let's keep doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why it doesn't work. That sounds brilliant.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
People who don't like bussy.
Then we've been going about it the wrong way. You've got not a shred of evidence to support your claim that women are intrinsically worse at programming, and it's pretty well-established that self-conscious tweens have a habit of thinking of engineering as something boys do.
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
Well, I've never said that. I said that IQ distribution is different between the genders and we have multiple longitudinal studies that prove this.
Yeah, let's go with that idea over science. This has worked so well in the past. I mean, obviously we just need to encourage girls more. Like throw them parties or something for selecting engineering as a major in university and maybe giving them a car if they actually stick with it to graduation. Because for some reason a highly retarded segment of the population refuses to acknowledge scientific facts.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
And IQ means jack shit with regards to anything practical if it isn't substantially below 100.
What science? What science have you provided which shows girls to be intrinsically worse at engineering?
On the other hand, it has been shown that good teachers and thinking that coding is for girls is instrumen tal in whether girls go into software engineering.
https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mine/articles/2016-10-20/study-computer-science-gender-gap-widens-despite-increase-in-jobs
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
Demonstratively untrue, like everything else you're saying. We are discussing the correlation of IQ to profession. The top occupations by intelligence are science, math, engineering and medicine. These are also the most under served by women, for reasons that I already described that you refuse to accept.
Again, I never said that. I said intelligence distribution is different in the genders. I find it funny that we're essentially arguing about intelligence, yet you seem incapable of parsing a simple statement in English. I'll break it down for you.
I'm not saying women are incapable of being engineers.
I'm saying that the distribution of capable engineers is different between the sexes.
Everything I've said is easily enough to verify if you can stop huffing the gussy fumes for a second.
So? This is the same nonsense garbage people have been saying for almost two generations now and showing little to no effect. But yeah, like I said before, let's totally double down on something that's never worked because this time it totally will. Totes.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Wrong. IQ test scores are affected substantially by practice. Correlation does not imply causation; people going into STEM fields may have also experienced more mental stimulation throughout their lives.
So you'll ignore how the report has shown that girls having a capable role model to look up to greatly helps how many of them go into engineering fields?
This clearly has absolutely nothing to do with IQ score distributions.Have you considered the fact that, maybe, just maybe, previous efforts have been the exact same cheesy, tone-deaf, innefectual shit stuff like healthy eating campaigns, anti-drug campaigns or whatever in schools have been?
1 ffbtaw 2018-04-25
Maybe internet IQ tests. The 95% confidence intervals I've seen were +/- 5 IQ points.
IQ scores are ~75% heritable.
that will certainly play into the remaining 25%
1 Chicup 2018-04-25
As someone "in" the medical field, women have made, I'm assuming the most progress there.
The reason being, its the easiest to fudge the grades in. Problem solving has taken a back seat to the point that its often not there at all, and you can pass with just memorizing basically "medical recipes" "You see this, you do this" and thats how things are tested.
This is bad for everyone because its increased the number of shitty doctors, both male and female. It was done more to get minorities to manage to pass (barely) but as a side effect you now have around 50% women in things like med and dental school.
You can't really play those games in math and engineering. You can't put in an essay (like they did the mcat) to fudge scores. You can't take out the problem solving, like they did the GRE (they took out the logic section in the very early 90's and replaced it with, an essay...).
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
You're entirely correct.
The problem, as I see it, is that certain people are mortally offended at the idea that there is inequality in distribution of certain biological attributes. If we're talking things like "Blonde hair" or "Green Eyes", no one really gives a shit, but as soon as those things can affect your potential status in life, such as intelligence, then whoooo boy are you a heretic for backing actual scientific studies that prove this.
The thing that gets me is that only an utter retard would actually look at this and derive an opinion like, "Women can't be engineers". For fucks sake, no one is saying that. We're just saying that there aren't as many women suited for it and I'm sure the ones that are are just as good as their male counter parts.
But yeah, rather than just accepting this, they continue to waste money and lower standards. As you alluded to - there is a reason why women drop out of STEM classes more frequently than men do and it becomes even more apparent that the graduation rates get smaller and smaller the less subjective the material is, with math and physics having the lowest female graduation rates compared to life sciences which has the highest.
I mean, the idea that a woman who majors in math or physics is going to fail to graduate because we didn't tell her she was good at math or physics is utterly asinine. If anything, it's probably the opposite - we spent a lot of time convincing them they were good at it and they tried and then failed at it.
It's like, sure if you promote STEM you're going to get more capable women going into it, but you're also going to get a lot of incompetent ones as well, so don't be surprised when they fail for fucks sake.
1 Chicup 2018-04-25
My wife is good at math but bad at science as a thing. They basically bribed her to go into engineering. She failed out and then they wouldn't let her back into the college she left because ... her grades were too low. They basically hurt her job prospects and life by saying "Oh you had a 32 on the math ACT, please be an engineer as a woman!!!oneone
1 PracticalOnions 2018-04-25
My sister’s med-school professor said that you only retain about 20% of what you learned throughout your studies and the real learning comes when you’re on the ground floor.
1 Tetragrade 2018-04-25
literally slit your fucking wrists you homophobic fag
1 v_is_one_person 2018-04-25
Literally eat a ban.
1 totalrandomperson 2018-04-25
What's this pussy shit?
We have more now?
1 v_is_one_person 2018-04-25
More what?
1 totalrandomperson 2018-04-25
Mods now.
My autocorrect is the agent of ((globalists)) sabotaging me.
1 v_is_one_person 2018-04-25
Those bastards. Yeah we have to do shit and whatnot now. It's lame.
1 POST_BUSSY 2018-04-25
You can't genuinely tell someone to KYS now, because the admins will ban you. It's been an ongoing thing for the past few weeks. Hell, even a joking KYS will get you canned.
1 SageTestini 2018-04-25
Kill yourself.
1 LightUmbra 2018-04-25
((()))
1 rainydrama 2018-04-25
() Tay-Tay.
1 Tetragrade 2018-04-25
the jews
1 freet0 2018-04-25
It's pretty highly correlated with income and test scores
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
IQ is even correlated with income, education level and even longevity.
1 DistortedLines 2018-04-25
Lol at people treating IQ like its synonymous with brain power
1 Chicup 2018-04-25
Found the low IQ.
1 DistortedLines 2018-04-25
From a t_d poster 🤔🤔
1 Chicup 2018-04-25
Trump voters have a higher IQ than Hilbot voters, fight me!
1 rainydrama 2018-04-25
0 is still higher than -1.
-pitterpatterwater.
1 LateStageBDO 2018-04-25
Highly doubt the average Trump voters have a high IQ
1 Chicup 2018-04-25
Average voters tend to be close to averages yes.....
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
IT WAS HERRRRRRRRRR
TURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
found the guy roasted by the t_d poster.
1 DistortedLines 2018-04-25
Alas, I was PWNED epic style by this 'pede. I'm not sure how I will ever recover, might rope right now tbh
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
o7
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
Much value will be lost
1 Thulean-Dragon 2018-04-25
t. brainlet coping
1 hlary 2018-04-25
Drama tends to be somewhat draconian when it comes to their biological determinism
1 ricksansmorty 2018-04-25
O-oooooooooo AAAAE-A-A-I-A-U- JO-oooooooooooo AAE-O-A-A-U-U-A- E-eee-ee-eee AAAAE-A-E-I-E-A-JO-ooo-oo-oo-oo EEEEO-A-AAA-AAAA
1 Detective_Fallacy 2018-04-25
Only true for distributions with a different mean or skew, what these IQ distributions aren't.
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
There are an equal population of men and women. Get two pieces of string of the same length, one for boys and one for girls. Make a bell curve for the women, then make a bell curve for the men, but at the last 5% of each side, double the string back on itself. Observe the difference.
1 -huitzilopochtli- 2018-04-25
unless you have hard numbers you can't make that assertion.
1 Ghirarims_Nose 2018-04-25
Lmao. "Only le high IQ people like me want to do STEM!"
One of the more retarded instances of STEM-jerking I've ever seen
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
Actually I wanted to be a painter but Chad Goldstien stole my girl.
1 TinyJibble 2018-04-25
Oh shit Adolf, what are you doing here?
1 Throwawayonsteroids 2018-04-25
http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students-by-college-major-and-gender-ratio/
I don't feel like going searching for any other sources but there is a visuospatial and mathematical demand imposed by the STEM fields that is not present elsewhere. It has for a long time been known that STEM majors score higher on aptitude tests than any other field wth the single exception of philosophy.
But the guy you are responding to is wrong about the IQ variability being the sole cause of female underrepresentation in STEM. That is mostly explained by natural proclivities. The IQ variability thing only really represents underrepresentation at the extreme ends like number of distinguished female academics or chess players or whatever. At about an IQ of 145 the distribution is still a healthy 2/3 female.
1 AlveolarPressure 2018-04-25
The source of those stats is really fishy. Their distribution of Verbal and Quantitative scores is weird and doesn't match the College Board's data at all. The ETS source has every major except for English scoring higher on Quant (often significantly so), but the national averages give Verbal a slight edge.
They also categorize their majors with a strange focus on STEM. They break up the different types of engineering to inflate the numbers, but then make big groupings like "humanities" that could contain majors that are pretty different (they don't even say what majors are included).
1 bugslife22112 2018-04-25
I’m an engineer and I work with and interview a lot of grils. I just don’t buy the idea that it comes down to an intelligence difference. More likely it’s an issue of interest. Women often find it unbearable to stare at a screen for 12 hours figuring out the minutia of how some library works. Actually that’s understandable, the weird part is that some people find this shit interesting
1 VidiotGamer 2018-04-25
It's not an intelligence difference. It's a distribution difference.
1 bugslife22112 2018-04-25
Yeah I get that you are suggesting a distribution difference, but I don’t buy that most engineers represent the extreme upper end of intelligence. Maybe that’s true at other companies
1 PURINBOYS2002 2018-04-25
Work at other company. Can confirm engineers are about as dumb as everyone else.
1 uniqueguy263 2018-04-25
Reddit's full of engineers tho, and we all know everyone on Reddit is an unappreciated genius
1 weltallic 2018-04-25
This is why Veterinary Science (which is a STEM field) is 81% women.
1 Gil-Gandel 2018-04-25
The first of your conclusions is not supported by the data. Assuming that the mean intelligence is equal, a randomly-selected woman is likely to be as intelligent as a randomly-selected man.
This assumes that both sexes are indeed equally intelligent on average - an assertion that needs evidentiary support but is usually short-circuited by cries of "sexism!".
The higher graduation rate of women can be plausibly explained by the sustained program to make higher education more attractive to women and the willingness to hand degrees out for "soft" subjects.
1 die_rattin 2018-04-25
Not true. Trivial example: 3 100 IQ women vs. 2 /r/drama posters and 1 von Neumann.
1 Gil-Gandel 2018-04-25
No, the set-up was that both IQ ranges were normally distributed, just with different variance, and your (unreasonably small) data set is (unreasonably) skewed.
1 uniqueguy263 2018-04-25
Yeah, the first conclusion he makes doesn't even logically make sense
1 cvetley 2018-04-25
this. the average math or physics major has like a 135+ IQ, and even a small difference in standard deviation between populations can mean a massive imbalance in people with certain scores at the extreme ends
1 freet0 2018-04-25
Can I get a source?
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
Huh you got a source for that sweetie? No? Oh no, you dont? Okay then, bye bye! Buh bye! Heres the door sweetie ---> /r/subredditdrama
1 shallowm 2018-04-25
1 ffbtaw 2018-04-25
This is only true if the mean IQ for women is higher, studies I've seen have shown no statistically significant difference.
In reality if you have a randomly selected group of people who all have above average IQ then the average male IQ will be higher. On the other hand if you have a group of all below average IQ then the average female IQ will be higher.
Since one would expect college graduates to have above average IQs you'd expect that more graduates would be men. There is clearly something else at play here.
1 geraldo42 2018-04-25
Whether or not your IQ distribution theory is true, if we pretend it's correct for the sake of argument your point is still bullshit. Engineering is not some elite discipline where only people with a really high IQ can succeed. I know STEMlords love to tell themselves that they're some kind of academic elites but as someone who graduated from an engineering program I can promise you that it is not a sign of genius IQ. Like most programs there is a wide mix of people. Some of them are very smart, clearly on the high end of the IQ spectrum and some of them are literal mouth breathing retards. You can get pretty far in school with just a little hard work and with the increased prevalence of hand holding in college, the easiness of cheating (cheating is MASSIVE in every engineering program I'm familiar with. Go to any large research institution and you'll fine course notes, HW solutions and previous exams online), and the ability to class shop (only take classes from easy professors) with just a little but of guile (or more often support from your helicopter parents) you too can be an engineering graduate and feel superior about your degree.
1 die_rattin 2018-04-25
OTOH GRE scores by major are easily available and generally confirm the STEM boosters’ bragging, with some exceptions (Philosophy majors, for example)
1 weltallic 2018-04-25
Nonsense! If that were true, there would be more men in STEM fields and more men in prison.
1 newcomer_ts 2018-04-25
You just described effect of the patriarchy.
1 XSCR 2018-04-25
more like the chadarchy
1 theboyaintright99 2018-04-25
Surely you can’t be serious
1 jimmahdean 2018-04-25
Holy fuck the amount of seriousposting underneath is way more than /r/drama should be tolerating.
MODS!!
1 SmurfPrivilege 2018-04-25
Yawn. Learn to scroll past things you don't like instead of throwing temper tantrums.
1 jimmahdean 2018-04-25
I don't actually care, I like reading random discussion on the internet. It's why I'm here, after all.
1 Che_Gueporna 2018-04-25
The best part of that narrative is the idea that boys are never discouraged.
Which is so much rank horseshit. I got fucking beat up and literallt pushed into my locker for being a nerd. The difference is, instead of getting discouraged, it just fueled the determination to get into a goodncollege, make asstons of money and come back later to shit down those fuckers necks with my success.
1 die_rattin 2018-04-25
I dunno what you’re talking about, my encyclopedic knowledge of ActionScript and Windows RPC calls got me mad puss back in middle school
1 SmurfPrivilege 2018-04-25
Also, aren't a lot of programmers at least somewhat self-taught? It might be a little different now, but 10 years ago, the dudes who excelled in CS classes often did so because they had been toying around with programming on their own throughout high school and middle school. Nothing's stopping girls in middle school from messing around with "hello world" on their own time.
1 Keith_Moonpie 2018-04-25
"a job was created just for me due to my daddy's connections, but i still found a way to make me the victim."
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
1 Thulean-Dragon 2018-04-25
Fucking women were a mistake.
Sexbots when?
1 rnjbond 2018-04-25
Amazing
1 a_jill_sandwich 2018-04-25
She absolutely blew her best friend’s dad too. No smoke without fire and all that.
1 22333444455555666666 2018-04-25
who wouldn't? you can fulfill the dual fantasies of giving your bussy to your best frirend's dad and your boss in one go
1 Invalid_Target 2018-04-25
these were biological females, they dont have bussy
1 buttcoinbuttcoin 2018-04-25
Disgusting
1 rainydrama 2018-04-25
Well, there goes any sympathy I had for them.
1 Invalid_Target 2018-04-25
this👏but👏unironically👏
1 K-town- 2018-04-25
Serious question: are transwomen’s assholes considered gussy since the mangled penis can’t be used as a hole?
1 Here-Is-Your-Penis 2018-04-25
<==============3
1 K-town- 2018-04-25
Bad bot
1 nanonan 2018-04-25
Electroshock > trans acceptance. I thought Pence was in charge for fucks sake.
1 K-town- 2018-04-25
Off topic/doesn’t answer the question. MODS!!!!
1 Invalid_Target 2018-04-25
fuck you, i would love a little chubby cherubic Tgirl to rape nighty.
1 Invalid_Target 2018-04-25
no, it's based on biotruths, bussy is dependent on having a Y chromosome.
1 serialflamingo 2018-04-25
Wtf! That is not okay.
1 rnjbond 2018-04-25
Nah, I've had interns at my last firm who only got their position because their daddy is golfing buddies with an executive. Plenty of nepotism without that kind of stuff.
1 pinoypepper 2018-04-25
Has this cunt not heard the term nepotisim
1 TheRealTrueDarkLord 2018-04-25
Women make terrible engineers. Or terrible anything.
1 cavides 2018-04-25
Men are even better at being women!
1 TheRealTrueDarkLord 2018-04-25
It's true, just ask 4chan about traps.
1 kingofthehill5 2018-04-25
No to mention the search for women ceo on uber ended with a man hired.
1 Tetragrade 2018-04-25
Well of course, traps are less gay than some women, it's just science.
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
TIL - running people over while texting == ultimate woman.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Ada Lovelace, Grace hopper, etc etc are all terrible engineers apparently. I'm an actual programmer and I've met quite a few women who cna code circles around me.
1 puppy_dog_eyes 2018-04-25
Babbage never actually built a computer and Ada Lovelace never actually programmed anything (because Babbage’s “computer” literally didn’t exist). She femsplained math to mathematicians and 100+ years later she was made a hero for it.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
1 Yiin 2018-04-25
Ok, now I'm mad. People need to keep the sacred names of Turing and the other heroes out of their gender war bullshit. Especially the gender war bullshit.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-04-25
Honestly, if you have an opinion on GG you shgould just be gassed.
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
Now I understand the Nazi flair
1 zergling_Lester 2018-04-25
Alan "Anal Touring" Turing did not suck kilometres of dick so that some ho compared him to Ada Lovelace!
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
You said that in a different comment thread
1 clay-davis 2018-04-25
Good sandwiches.
1 Psycho_Robot 2018-04-25
Not really. All the best chefs are men. But men are willing to deal with mediocre sandwiches just so their women can feel like they contribute in a meaningful way other than their sex appeal
1 Kazundo_Goda 2018-04-25
Remember the bridge that fell, few days after the construction.Guess who did the design for it.
1 rainydrama 2018-04-25
The bridge design was actually altright; it fell because of bureaucratic meddling.
1 I_DRINK_TO_FORGET 2018-04-25
So the complaint is that they gave a reward to a group who doesn't deserve it and so now i have to read multiple women's anecdotal life stories?
1 DAANHHH 2018-04-25
!Redditsilver
1 RedditSilverRobot 2018-04-25
Here's your Reddit Silver, I_DRINK_TO_FORGET!
/u/I_DRINK_TO_FORGET has received silver 1 time. (given by /u/DAANHHH) info
1 skivian 2018-04-25
"Doesn't deserve it" is putting it mildly. From what the guy is saying, the winning group should have been kicked out of the competition for their submission
1 BasicallyADoctor 2018-04-25
Actually they deserved the win and every other team of girls should have tied to come in second place. Women are good at coding.
1 itoucheditforacookie 2018-04-25
Deal with it
1 cvetley 2018-04-25
it's funny until they start working at the DoD or handling your credit card data
1 Hammer_of_truthiness 2018-04-25
Imagine being the sort of person who serious posts on r/drama to reeeee about the meme gender
1 die_rattin 2018-04-25
Having worked at the DoD, most of these get pushed into management
Working at an office that was 95% men but everyone above me was a woman was a big reason I left, tbh. The last straw was when I found out they’d offered a management role to a borderline autistic junior employee over 3 very qualified men (to her credit, she refused)
1 rnjbond 2018-04-25
Yes, especially the girl who was oppressed because her daddy's friend literally created an internship for her.
1 TUMS_FESTIVAL 2018-04-25
But people thought she slept with him, so she's the real victim here.
1 Sentinell 2018-04-25
Top post:
That's literally what their entire sub is based on. Except most of their own bad experiences are in their own head.
And she proves that in the very next paragraph:
Somehow she manages to twist her (female) teacher trying to teach her dumb ass into sexism against women. Honestly, it's kind of impressive.
1 RetroBabe 2018-04-25
Most students don't take algebra until 8th grade or high school. If she was struggling after the first test (which is usually a review of pre-algrebra topics) then yea, I can see why the teacher would be concern.
The victim complex is strong with this one.
1 Psycho_Robot 2018-04-25
Women can be the patriarchy to, if they do something a feminist doesn't like
1 aqouta 2018-04-25
This is why it's really shitty to have renamed gender norms to the patriarchy. It makes it sound like a cabal of men design and implement it on greater society.
1 TinyJibble 2018-04-25
> It makes it sound like a cabal of men design and implement it on greater society.
Juice did patriarchy.
1 bugslife22112 2018-04-25
It’s funny that they assume men don’t experience adversity like this. When I was trying to get into software as a self taught engineer I failed over 14 interviews and was told in no uncertain terms that I was not cut out for this.
1 freet0 2018-04-25
The real problem is are we not properly informing unintelligent males of their inferiority?
1 TheCodexx 2018-04-25
Do you actually know that any time a woman has been passed-up for promotion, not hired, or someone at work took a disliking to her, that it was because she was a woman and not because something about her personality didn't sit well with somebody?
If only every feminist blogger out there realized this, maybe they'd stop complaining about non-existent problems. Bad things happen to everyone.
That being said, you're delusional if you don't think there's lots of people out there (in my experience, very few of them are actually engineers; most of them are business guys who are involved in the field somehow) who won't bend over backwards to go "See?! Women can do it, too!", even as the person they're pointing at doesn't deserve any kind of recognition.
I've never see a competition judged accurately by my own standards. They rarely have actual engineers judging them. But this is pretty egregious; they didn't even follow the rules and should be disqualified. Either they got picked because they're women, nobody wanted to point it out because they're women, or the judges and everyone there are wholly incompetent. But it strikes me as odd that nobody would point out that they broke the rules, especially when others have financial incentive to be bumped-up in the rankings.
/u/Runckey
1 Runckey 2018-04-25
Thanks for the mention I guess. Anyway, the crux of what I was trying to say is this dude took one shitty situation (and obviously unfair situation) and came to the conclusion that all women always get unfair advantages in stem when he had no idea why the team won (probably because the judges were bad, or all the other teams were terrible at presenting their solutions even if the code was good). Most likely there were several complaints about this occurring if what the OP said was accurately conveyed. Anyway, I saw OP mention he was aiming for the top 3 and then no mention of getting a place so I imagine he was a tiny bit salty and could have embellished the facts a little.
I do think there are lots of people out there looking for women to achieve despite their skills. I think there are probably far more (the large majority) who don't care either way, and a smaller group (but bigger than the first) that are stuck in their 'old boys club' ways.
Most feminist bloggers don't think sexism is the result of individual actions, but are concerned when there are patterns on a wider scale that disproportionality affect one group (like male suicide rates). Now, if you can somehow show that engineering competitions are disproportionality won by women, i agree that's something to be concerned about. If it's only occurring in this one situation, then concluding that the team won because they were women is not a reasonable conclusion.
Bro, don't put words in my mouth. I've never said that at all, in fact i do not think that a woman being passed up for a promotion is because she is a woman, but other factors like you said. But you have to consider if the other factors are influenced by being a women. For example lack of emotionality is generally discouraged in the socialisation of girls, but is maybe a quality that is desired in a leader (e.g people saying Hilary Clinton might start a nuclear war if she gets too emotional). Anyway, this is an institutional level problem and to do with what companies generally value and what we are expecting of and teaching to men and women.
1 buttcoinbuttcoin 2018-04-25
If your coworkers are saying this, perhaps you should find a job outside a retirement home in Alabama.
1 aqouta 2018-04-25
Don't downvote lolcows you morons,
1 rnjbond 2018-04-25
Thank you for this psa
1 ThatDamnedImp 2018-04-25
This sub downvotes ever rightwing lolcow. So i downvote the lefty ones they upvote.
1 TinyJibble 2018-04-25
Usually just the boring ones, tbh. Like, if all they have to say is "THAT'S JUST A MAN IN A DRESS"... why bother?
1 BasicallyADoctor 2018-04-25
Ibguess the takeaway is that coding is a field which requires a level of autism that is impossible to attain without a Y chromosome
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
Scientific fact.
Even if the girl has autism just means how brain is like a neurotypical boy
1 colonel-o-popcorn 2018-04-25
Don’t expect real engagement here. I suspect most people aren’t going to even really read what you wrote. I at least appreciate the attempt though, this place needs more ideological diversity in its seriousposters
1 ThatDamnedImp 2018-04-25
90% of the serious posters here are leftwing feminists.
1 colonel-o-popcorn 2018-04-25
??? There’s pizzashill who’s leftwing but not a feminist, there are a few TERFs who are in a weird ideological spot, and there’s the Daddy Defense Force as far as serial seriousposters
Then there are users who seriouspost occasionally who mostly just hate trans people and le SJWs
Most other seriousposting I see is people pinged from linked threads that aren’t really political defending anything from pedophilia to dogfucking
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
You trying say radical feminist isn't left?
1 SageTestini 2018-04-25
"What is self-awareness?"
1 shallowm 2018-04-25
This place is literally nothing but a left-wing circle jerk at this point. Of course everyone not a left-winger is getting downvoted.
You've all made it very obvious. There is indeed space between TD (Which I don't think I've ever even posted on) and SRD, which this place has become. Sort by controversial. Any post picking on women or the left, is controversial. Most posts picking on men and the right, are not.
It's not like you guys are even trying to hide it. You've been posting BRDs for days. Sharia Blue has a heavy presence here, including among the mods, and BRD posts are the mods signalling that this sub is now fallen to the fempire. Hence why any post mocking a woman is suddenly downvoted, and a ton of weird SRD leftist shit is getting upvoted.
Bird=BRD=Bring Reddit Down; a SRS meme. Try to deny it by calling it out in plain sight, but it is what it is.
It's time for anyone else just plain leave this sub, block its regulars and go hang out in bigger, better subs, because if every place is a partisan circlejerk (and this place definitely has been for the last few months), we're better off in our own circlejerk subs, like CringeAnarchy, which is a lot bigger than place, and no more or less full of retards. /r/drama is just SRS/CB2 circlejerking at this point. Literally nothing they say makes sense, but they all frantically upvote each other and downvote anyone else.
I won't be interacting with any of you further on this post. You know what's happening here. It's very obvious.
1 Modsliedpeopledied 2018-04-25
But my liege, everyone on CringeAnarchy keeps calling me a nigger... While here maybe only one or two people will and at least they try to be funny with it.
I am actually new to this sub. No idea how I got here or what it is. And I think it is pretty tame.
1 shallowm 2018-04-25
أنصحك أن تترك هذا السُب لأنه مليء بالانحلال والانحطاط الأخلاقي والشذوذ والدعوة للفجور ويجب علينا كمسلمين أن نحذر من هذه الأمور
1 Modsliedpeopledied 2018-04-25
oofff ya w5ey reddit bi-akmalihi mali'on bi9awmi Loot... 3ala l'a9al hedhom modh7ikin ezzebi.
That is some hardcore fos7ha btw. Kudos
1 ThatDamnedImp 2018-04-25
How is this different from all of feminism, exactly? You people seem to believe that you are the only ones allowed to hold grievances.
1 voicelesshoodwinker 2018-04-25
Lol, we have a psycho paranoid one there boys... Yes honey, reddit IS your safe space and MEN are out there to get you.
1 Wolog2 2018-04-25
Links in OP's post to the original project/devpost discussion are broken, even the imgur backup is broken
1 Forum_Rage 2018-04-25
Noticed too. Did anyone actually see the content in the links before it was “removed”?
1 buttcoinbuttcoin 2018-04-25
OP claims the devpost discussion was removed and the person who posted it was banned.
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
Okay. As a female Engineering newbe - that really pissed me off.
Like I work hard so I can eat the weaker members of my profession for breakfast and laugh at their demise.
Then someone tries to treat women with kiddie gloves cause feemaleee? Fuck that. Nobody likes the incompetent person who only fills a minority status on their team.
Also imagine being the only competent programmer on that girl group.
1 Curgan1337 2018-04-25
It sucks because shit like this only encourages the "diversity hire" trope but lets be real, until you can call this out without a feminist lynch mob trying to ruin you it will just continue.
1 broden 2018-04-25
It's challenges of imagination like these which is why I come to /r/drama
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
It's a special sort of hell knowing that the girls who called you a "paranoid bitch" for trying to get them to do crap, vetoed all your ideas as lame and then copied random shit from github while you spent the night actually coding will be putting that competition on their resume.
Said chicks will also then rub "how you overreacted during it because we won anyways" in your face later on.
1 broden 2018-04-25
The interests of the top 1% of girl programmers are at cross purposes for reaching an even 50/50 split within tech.
1 WereCarrot 2018-04-25
Way to larp, hon.
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
Hey, making a todo MEAN stack app takes time and dedication OK?
Also i can code a linked list. beat that, nerd. I bet you dont even know how to use node on the CLI. >:)
1 LanceUpercut 2018-04-25
js developers will be the first up against the wall when the mayocide starts
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
It's what they trained us to do at University of Waterloo.
1 WereCarrot 2018-04-25
Yeah? I learned to spot larping cunts at harvard.
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
:P They trained us to be larping cunts at Waterloo. We don't even apologize regularly - which is the Canadian version of a jackass.
1 ffbtaw 2018-04-25
I was going to make a comment about the hearing the lamentations of their women then remembered we were talking about engineers.
1 Poopdicks69 2018-04-25
In my professional life I have never faced the girl or minority who is only there to fill a quota. Every woman and minority I have worked with was treated equally and went up in rank based on their merit. The only time I ever experienced different standards was for a girl who sucked at her job but was super hot and flirted with her old horny boss.
1 Che_Gueporna 2018-04-25
Yeah, i think usually what happens is that in college they figure out that they'll get paid better and have less work if they switch over to a marketing/business major.
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
That was a university conpetition. Some places have quotas (usually university in my experience).
1 die_rattin 2018-04-25
lol, I worked for a contracting company which specialized in hiring incompetent NAMs (did a lot of work for the government, obvs) backed by actually competent old white dudes who did the real work
Not to say there wasn’t smart black programmers, they were just in crazy high demand (and knew it) so either got promoted or left for better gigs
1 broden 2018-04-25
Women deserve to win prizes too, I don't see what the fuss is all about.
1 Dropperneck 2018-04-25
u/Richardhead6666 u/Lysis10
1 Lysis10 2018-04-25
lol I read this and laughed. Especially the women saying that getting a STEM degree is so much harder for women. Bitch plz.
1 Dropperneck 2018-04-25
The girl saying she didn’t get a special advantage even though she only got the job bc she was boning married dude at firm 😂😂🤦🏿♂️
1 Lysis10 2018-04-25
lmao oh yeah that too. "you guys, I totally got a job for realz my friend's dad gave it to me so you are all wrong about us." LOL
1 richardhead6666 2018-04-25
Special advantages for being under the desk on her knees, I guess nepotism better than just being a plain whore in her mind.😂
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-04-25
Nah. Sleeping your way up is for peasants. She just handed her resume to him the last time their families met up in a luxury resort.
1 Dropperneck 2018-04-25
Oh ya, she’s got that resume
1 richardhead6666 2018-04-25
This is quite sad! But I feel she should keep the win because I can only imagine the amount hours she put in on her knees and back to get where she’s at😋.
1 Lysis10 2018-04-25
metoo
1 richardhead6666 2018-04-25
Lmao
1 double-happiness 2018-04-25
This is a FUCKING OUTRAGE. Move her into the pre-Algebra class so it's a little easier??? What a fucking cunt. I would have chinned her.
1 Awayfone 2018-04-25
So what if she failed the pre algerable review test, how dare that female teacher discourage her pursuit of stem
1 ThatDamnedImp 2018-04-25
/r/legaladvice is outright lying to that man. He can sue those women easy. They used his IP to profit, which means all such profits belong to him.
Legaladvice needs to stop lying about the law to protect women. This isn't some gray area. This is literally what IP lew exists for.
1 AVirtualDuck 2018-04-25
Forking open-source code is totally legal. I'm not sure whether that'd actually stand up in court.
1 shitpersonality 2018-04-25
There are different licenses for open source softare.
https://opensource.org/licenses
1 AVirtualDuck 2018-04-25
TIL. Thank you.
1 shitpersonality 2018-04-25
If you keep reading...
1 SageTestini 2018-04-25
Imagine being more retarded than the users at /r/legaladvice. Way to set the bar, Imp.
1 saddertadder 2018-04-25
what is software licenses :S
1 lamb_der 2018-04-25
How do we know that the winning team was not affiliated with the company and predetermined to win anyways because they didn't want to pay out the prize money and just gave them a couple bills for sitting in?
1 Irrel_M 2018-04-25
Really fighting those stereotypes.
1 pointmanzero 2018-04-25
Women going to work was a mistake.