For those that care, they are both right. The original movie was not written to be a Starship Troopers adaptation, and was only retroactively modified after they got the rights. The director did indeed not read more than a few chapters, and taped on some small stuff so he could call it a "satire" based on other peoples critic of the novel.
can't fault the dude for being into weird shit - it was the 60s and 70s after all.
starship troopers is still a fun read - if you have zero interest in the military or come at it from an anti-military stance, you'll probably not enjoy it at all.
but heinlein didn't really seem to be pro/anti military anyway - he just wanted to write about a military run society and how someone living in it would experience it. this has helped it age really well in my opinion. last i checked, it's still on a lot of US military recommended reading lists. hell, heinlein even helped a vietnam vet (who was famous for his anti-war scifi novel, Forever War) back on his feet when he was destitute. he was a righteous dude who just liked writing.
One of my buddies was a marine (that spent the entire time banging hookers and jumping out of planes for training) and he had to put it down because all the mundane day-to-day stuff Heinlein described was triggering the boredom and 'brotherhood' nightmare he just escaped from.
That part is good. The rest is awful and in his stilted moralizing small nuggets of wisdom at you style. I mean, it even does the "he gets knocked out right at the climax and then wakes up and everything is fine" thing.
Ironically though, if it ended with the father blandly accepting his role as cannon fodder for the state, as it do, and then he gets turned into a pile of paste right in front of Johnny's eyes (preferably by a friendly fire incident) the book would be praised to the high heavens as an example of bold anti-war works.
i haven't read it in a few years, but the mundane training and brothers-in-arms shit was spot on when i was in the military. even the officer training was almost spot on (though it turned out to actually be a mix of starship troopers and band of brothers - filing boatloads of paperwork while occasionally doing something interesting).
if i'm remembering it right, the book was written for younger kids on the cusp of adulthood - so the moralizing small nuggets of wisdom style would have worked really well i suppose.
i always assumed that rico and his platoon get pulverized in the end anyway - no way they'd get down to that last prison planet fully intact
I like that ending. Gonna go with that one. And ya, I read Stranger in a Strange Land as a young kid and ate those particular nuggets of wisdom right up.
Kinda crazy how one author pissed everyone off in two books. A true radical centrist.
same here man, heinlein got me good with his love of the military - it was one of the reasons i got my commission at least.
when i found out he pissed off conservatives and liberals with his work, i had a good chuckle. he definitely was the Dean of Science Fiction - tenured and did not give two shits about what others thought of him.
Ya, that's not what happened either. This entire argument is stupid because director's don't write the fucking movie.
Originally it was a script by Ed Neumeier called Outpost 7 or Bug Hunt, but when they couldn't get the greenlight they optioned Starship Troopers to get it made. Then Neumeier, get this, re-wrote the script to include Heinlein's book. Crazy, I know.
And he had this to say about it: "What I really liked about the idea of this movie was that it allowed me to write about fascism. That's amusing. It was also difficult to do--or to do well.Paul Verhoeven had an enourmous influence on that angle of the picture, once he became more actively involved. But right from the start, I had a feeling that today's film audiences would really appreciate Heinlein's ideas. Because the message of the original book was pretty straightforward: Democracy is failing, and we need some strict controls on our culture."
I retained that outlook in the ST scripts. But I also wanted to play with it. To me, the whole spin of the movie is this: You want a world that works? Okay, we'll show you one. And it really does work. It happens to be a military dictatorship, but it works. That was the original rhythm I was trying to play with, just to sort of mess with the audience."
I unironically enjoyed both versions (book and movie). The tards in that thread are arguing over semantics that don't even matter - the two works are only really related by name and extremely superficial characteristics (there's a military ruled government, there's a war with aliens). The two versions are so different that being butthurt about "it's bad satire!" shouldn't even be an argument.
Verhoeven should have been banned from ever getting within ten feet of a film script or stage after he produced that abortion Showgirls, the film that has turned more men towards homosexuality than Cher and Libarace combined.
i really liked the book. it describes a fascist utopia in a way that skirts outright advocating it, so if you think that's bullshit you'll probably find it tiresome.
Starship Troopers is the greatest movie ever made. It's the only film that actually made me feel something. I thought it was all the tits in the shower scenes, or Rico finally putting the cock to Dizzy, but only after looking at the movie through the prism of /r/Drama do I realize what this movie was really about and why it spoke to me...
It was all about the Bussy. Starship Troopers is a story of gay space Nazis. I'm still waiting for director's cut where Neil Patrick Harris bends Rico over Dizzy's space coffin and shows him who is in command.
33 comments
1 braaaph 2018-05-21
For those that care, they are both right. The original movie was not written to be a Starship Troopers adaptation, and was only retroactively modified after they got the rights. The director did indeed not read more than a few chapters, and taped on some small stuff so he could call it a "satire" based on other peoples critic of the novel.
1 Minimum_T-Giraff 2018-05-21
What page in the book is the sex scenes?
1 AllenArken 2018-05-21
every page - he fucks dizzy in the first couple pages
1 toynbeeidea16 2018-05-21
Only Heinlein I've read is Stranger in a Strange Land, and its the same deal - and it really hasn't aged well.
1 AllenArken 2018-05-21
can't fault the dude for being into weird shit - it was the 60s and 70s after all.
starship troopers is still a fun read - if you have zero interest in the military or come at it from an anti-military stance, you'll probably not enjoy it at all.
but heinlein didn't really seem to be pro/anti military anyway - he just wanted to write about a military run society and how someone living in it would experience it. this has helped it age really well in my opinion. last i checked, it's still on a lot of US military recommended reading lists. hell, heinlein even helped a vietnam vet (who was famous for his anti-war scifi novel, Forever War) back on his feet when he was destitute. he was a righteous dude who just liked writing.
1 banhminobanhyou 2018-05-21
One of my buddies was a marine (that spent the entire time banging hookers and jumping out of planes for training) and he had to put it down because all the mundane day-to-day stuff Heinlein described was triggering the boredom and 'brotherhood' nightmare he just escaped from.
That part is good. The rest is awful and in his stilted moralizing small nuggets of wisdom at you style. I mean, it even does the "he gets knocked out right at the climax and then wakes up and everything is fine" thing.
Ironically though, if it ended with the father blandly accepting his role as cannon fodder for the state, as it do, and then he gets turned into a pile of paste right in front of Johnny's eyes (preferably by a friendly fire incident) the book would be praised to the high heavens as an example of bold anti-war works.
1 AllenArken 2018-05-21
i haven't read it in a few years, but the mundane training and brothers-in-arms shit was spot on when i was in the military. even the officer training was almost spot on (though it turned out to actually be a mix of starship troopers and band of brothers - filing boatloads of paperwork while occasionally doing something interesting).
if i'm remembering it right, the book was written for younger kids on the cusp of adulthood - so the moralizing small nuggets of wisdom style would have worked really well i suppose.
i always assumed that rico and his platoon get pulverized in the end anyway - no way they'd get down to that last prison planet fully intact
1 caffienatedjedi 2018-05-21
Man, wtf is going on. /r/drama is having intelligent discussion while the rest of reddit is pants on head retarded.
1 wwyzzerdd 2018-05-21
Reading is for nerds!
1 banhminobanhyou 2018-05-21
I like that ending. Gonna go with that one. And ya, I read Stranger in a Strange Land as a young kid and ate those particular nuggets of wisdom right up.
Kinda crazy how one author pissed everyone off in two books. A true radical centrist.
1 AllenArken 2018-05-21
same here man, heinlein got me good with his love of the military - it was one of the reasons i got my commission at least.
when i found out he pissed off conservatives and liberals with his work, i had a good chuckle. he definitely was the Dean of Science Fiction - tenured and did not give two shits about what others thought of him.
1 toynbeeidea16 2018-05-21
Only Heinlein I've read is Stranger in a Strange Land, and its the same deal - and it really hasn't aged well.
1 911roofer 2018-05-21
you double-posted, you fucking whore.
1 toynbeeidea16 2018-05-21
Sorry, my interwebz were taking a shit.
1 Minimum_T-Giraff 2018-05-21
This oddly good fan fiction.
1 banhminobanhyou 2018-05-21
Ya, that's not what happened either. This entire argument is stupid because director's don't write the fucking movie.
Originally it was a script by Ed Neumeier called Outpost 7 or Bug Hunt, but when they couldn't get the greenlight they optioned Starship Troopers to get it made. Then Neumeier, get this, re-wrote the script to include Heinlein's book. Crazy, I know.
And he had this to say about it: "What I really liked about the idea of this movie was that it allowed me to write about fascism. That's amusing. It was also difficult to do--or to do well.Paul Verhoeven had an enourmous influence on that angle of the picture, once he became more actively involved. But right from the start, I had a feeling that today's film audiences would really appreciate Heinlein's ideas. Because the message of the original book was pretty straightforward: Democracy is failing, and we need some strict controls on our culture."
I retained that outlook in the ST scripts. But I also wanted to play with it. To me, the whole spin of the movie is this: You want a world that works? Okay, we'll show you one. And it really does work. It happens to be a military dictatorship, but it works. That was the original rhythm I was trying to play with, just to sort of mess with the audience."
1 uniqueguy263 2018-05-21
It satirized fascism, the book wasn’t really relevant to the movie
1 AllenArken 2018-05-21
I unironically enjoyed both versions (book and movie). The tards in that thread are arguing over semantics that don't even matter - the two works are only really related by name and extremely superficial characteristics (there's a military ruled government, there's a war with aliens). The two versions are so different that being butthurt about "it's bad satire!" shouldn't even be an argument.
1 IAintThatGuy 2018-05-21
Is there anything else to do on Reddit?
1 AllenArken 2018-05-21
if there is, i haven't figured it out yet
1 IAintThatGuy 2018-05-21
I'm surprised it's not an /r/weekendgunnit thread.
1 sevgee 2018-05-21
Starship Troopers, the movie:
Unironic r/movies snobs:
1 911roofer 2018-05-21
They're aren't any good bugs ,though. They're all evil monsters. Just like Muslims.
1 toynbeeidea16 2018-05-21
Eh, the Buggers from the Ender series turned out to be okay.
1 sevgee 2018-05-21
True. If there ever will be an actual human-bug war irl, Muzzies are first into the meatgrinder.
1 westofthetracks 2018-05-21
hahahah holy shit, i dont even understand how someone is this incapable of thinking critically
1 911roofer 2018-05-21
Verhoeven should have been banned from ever getting within ten feet of a film script or stage after he produced that abortion Showgirls, the film that has turned more men towards homosexuality than Cher and Libarace combined.
1 wwyzzerdd 2018-05-21
I saw Showgirls in the theatre when it came out.
1 911roofer 2018-05-21
You poor man.
1 911roofer 2018-05-21
You poor man.
1 serialflamingo 2018-05-21
Showgirls is fantastic, fuck you.
1 KingNothing305 2018-05-21
Not satire at all. Oh look Nazi Neil Patrick Harris
1 Pepperglue 2018-05-21
Is the novel good? I remember liking the movie, but I have never get my hands on the novel.
1 accounttttttttt 2018-05-21
i really liked the book. it describes a fascist utopia in a way that skirts outright advocating it, so if you think that's bullshit you'll probably find it tiresome.
1 TUMS_FESTIVAL 2018-05-21
It's funny that they think Heinlein is ultraconservative considering he wrote an entire novel on how great mass orgies and promiscuity are.
1 jubbergun 2018-05-21
Starship Troopers is the greatest movie ever made. It's the only film that actually made me feel something. I thought it was all the tits in the shower scenes, or Rico finally putting the cock to Dizzy, but only after looking at the movie through the prism of /r/Drama do I realize what this movie was really about and why it spoke to me...
It was all about the Bussy. Starship Troopers is a story of gay space Nazis. I'm still waiting for director's cut where Neil Patrick Harris bends Rico over Dizzy's space coffin and shows him who is in command.