I am not sure which is more cringey, the litany of erroneous assumptions you splayed out or the act of calling upon the student archetype with the intent of derision. Anti-intellectualism, check. src
I'm no scientist but that's probably because candy is available for cheap everywhere and heroin isn't. Also, you probably haven't had a really great hit if you say that
That's absolutely an argument. Heroin is only really tempting if you're addicted to it, most people don't just suddenly think "I could really go for some heroin rn" but I'd imagine most people have thought that about ice cream or chocolate.
Here in /r/drama we like to call ourselves retards, but CB2 has people in it that really don't think that one of the steps to overcoming an addiction is to stop using whatever substance you're addicted to. Strange times we live in
I’m trying to lose weight and this is kind of what I realized. When I lived with my dad I ate bad food because it was always around. But now I realized “Hey, I could just not buy that food to begin with.”
I've reduced my soda consumption to about once or twice a week and the only reason i can do it is cause i stopped buying it in bulk, it's weird at first but I got used to it.
Yeah, I don't think I have much of a chance of relapse because truth be told, food wasn't really that important to me. When I moved out, I realized there was really no food or sugary beverage that I just couldn't live without and I don't have to give up meat so it's not like you can't still have good tasting food. I'm really avoiding bread and sugar though.
The only thing I miss are oreos, those things are delicious.
Limiting access is the best step after "I want to stop doing this."
After that is making a healthy plan for recognizing and dealing with situations when you're around it or feel compelled to use it. Healthy is relative to you and your better moments: some drunks need to avoid anything or anyone alcohol related, others might need to start their night by taking the bus instead of driving.
Then it's just plain grinding that shit out for the rest of your life. You get used to it pretty quick.
stopping heroin addiction is exactly as simple as stopping taking heroin, and the way to not be fat is as simple as eating less
just because a solution is simple doesn’t mean it’s easy though, and that whole CB2 thread is fatties pretending not to know the difference between the two concepts
watching what you eat is basically equivalent to an eating disorder to these people. Someone online tried to convince me once that I had one just because I mentioned that I rarely (basically never) eat sweets. It's ridiculous.
2 years ago i was a great big fat guy. with minor adjustments to my diet and a little bit of discipline, i lost over 100lbs and am now at a healthy weight, ~20 BMI. i don't exercise.
fat people have no self control. i imagine that obese people just sit on their ass eating french fries and candy bars all day, there's no other way to maintain that kind of blob physique.
... This truism isn't really holding up to scientific research and is a laughably bad understanding of how the body processes different macro nutrients into energy, waste, and body fat.
You have villages in Greece where kCal intake is well above 2000 yet obesity is minimal. The only difference is that processed sugars haven't invaded the culture in a significant way.
Body fat isn't as much of a credit account for energy as we believe it is.
How is what I said retarded? It's high school level science that different macro nutrients get broken down and expended/excreted/stored. If this want the case we wouldn't have different binding enzymes, different hormones for energy creation/use, etc.
"Buhbuhbuh CICO" is insanely imbecilic and untested science from almost 50 years ago.
It may also interest you to learn that dietary fat is what is stored as bodily fat, when a caloric excess is consumed. And that for dietary carbohydrates to be stored as fat (which requires conversion through the process called 'de novo lipogenesis' the carbohydrate portion of one's diet alone must approach or exceed one's TDEE.
Lyle's got great read on this subject, but if you prefer a more scientific one I suggest you give this review a gander:
The series was summarized quite well in this post.
1 If you're really looking for a metabolic advantage through macronutrient manipulation, you'd be far better off putting your money on protein. There's actually some evidence that higher intake levels do convey a small metabolic advantage.
2 These two papers actually found a decreased amount of energy expenditure in the high fat diets.
3 This study found a greater of amount of fat gain in the high fat diet, though weight gain was still similar.
Is there a word for this thing you just did where you overwhelm your opponent with sources to the point that in order to respond to all of them they would have to spend hours reading and then write a book-length comment?
I mean, I think you're right on this topic, but as a tactic it still seems less than good faith. And I've seen it plenty of times before (the black crime copypasta, list of times [sub] has done [bad thing], this list of Trump's 1800+ lies, etc).
Is there a word for this thing you just did where you overwhelm your opponent with sources to the point that in order to respond to all of them they would have to spend hours reading and then write a book-length comment?
Isn't a gish gallop using a long string of, by them self, weak and nonsensical arguments? That's not nearly the same as drowning someone in actual sources that support your claim, although I'd agree it's probably close in terms of being an asshole.
99% of the time, all the sources linked are just absolute random garbage with horrible methodologies (when they're studies) and are barely correlated, much less actually relevant, to the argument at hand.
I could go on but is it really that much of a stretch to say shit foods adds to body fat instead of total food? Because I think you misunderstand me honestly.
lmao ok buddy, im sure telling a whale that she can eat 3000 calories a day as long as she avoids processed sugars is gonna work better than telling her to eat under 1500 calories
Her body isn't going to digest complex carbs with how fucked her metabolism will be by the time she hits landwhale status. Your inability to comprehend basic human anatomy is comical
A combination of the two is what will do it. It is impossible to lose weight without having a negative calorie intake to output. Yes having a good diet is better than just not eating other than a bowl of cereal and a hotdog, especially for one's sanity and for the longevity of a diet, buuuuuuuut, if we are talking about simple thermodynamics, it's literally just math. Holy run-on sentence...
They think that counting calories is an eating disorder because some anorexics do it obsessively, forgetting that “obsessive” is the key part that makes it a disorder. I think they’re trying to convince themselves more than anything, tbh, so they don’t have to feel bad about the damage they’re doing to their bodies.
I eat sweets all the time and manage not to be a fat fuck. Moderation is key. Also I purposefully avoid soda because that means I can eat a piece of cake later. Fuck yeah
I blame the rise in faux health foods. I know people who will gladly eat an entire bag of vegetable chips while only picking at regular potato chips. Alcohol has a ton of calories too and many wine moms don't realize this.
Except it doesn't work. It sounds simple to you because you're retarded but there's a reason the whole field of behavioral psychology exists and thinking you're somehow immune to what makes people human shows you're either autistic or retarded.
Yes you fucking idiot, discipline is too much to ask. People don't get obese without some sort of deep underlying problem. Obviously the solution is to eat less, but getting there takes more than literally just not eating less.
The problem is being a fucking moron and decoupling cause and effect. Every single person I know that’s obese has ripples of control and responsibility issues across their whole lives. It’s literslly that simple.
Like all problems, if we think hard enough about it we'll eventually be gifted a magical epiphany that makes all the problems go away.
I mean, that's a lot easier and makes me ego feel better than putting in the constant work and effort required to start taking each one of the small steps that gets me closer to my personal goals.
While some of the lardasses in that thread are in denial about the calorie rule, some do have a point. Most non-delusional lards know they need to lower their calories. The problem is how they need to do it. Dieting incorrectly can cause shit like constant hunger, dizziness, no brainpower, etc.
The OP did some hardcore Keto shit. That razor magician (with the small guy) ate nothing but boiled 'taters for 2 months or someshit. You gotta have a good strat like that.
More like... Oh heavans Archibald, this spicy chicken tastes ten times better knowing that the EICo had to kill thousands of savages to bring it here! Would you like some more saffron on your pie dear? We certainly have enough of it
... but the point is that it's not "I'M LITERALLY DYING OF STARVATION ON THIS DIET", it's eating food only because you're actually hungry instead of having sugar and fat and salt orgy on your tongue.
A lot of people also think they need to eat until they're full, or whenever they feel any pinch of hunger. When I started losing weight and experimented with intermittent fasting or occasionally skipping meals i would feel pretty hungry at first, but 30 minutes later feel normal again. It's just a matter of self control and most of those people who complain about CICO are literally addicted to sugar and eating themselves to an early grave.
It's coming from the assumption that less food is the way to lose body fat. And simply research has not been kind to that truism. Cutting proccessed sugars is the number one factor it seems: helps get insulin/cortisol down and let's the heirarchy of energy expenditure do it's work easier (aka resting tdee is higher, burn more during excersize, etc).
It's pretty much why fad diets that rely on CICO just don't work. Once you find less processed, tasty, and filling to replace non-filling garbage the body fat finally starts to get reduced.
Cutting proccessed sugars is the number one factor it seems
Except the main causal effect of that is eating less food.
helps get insulin/cortisol down and let's the heirarchy of energy expenditure do it's work easier (aka resting tdee is higher, burn more during excersize, etc).
I'm not buying this at all without citations, and not ordinary citations but metastudy level citations.
Because evolutionarily speaking, at no point besides the last fifty years of the human evolution the work of "the hierarchy of energy expenditure" was to waste as much energy as possible. It was always depositing as much of extra energy as possible as fat, that was the measure of efficiency that our ancestors lived or died by, all the way back to single-celled organisms.
You have to understand that if you want any success. Your goal is tricking your body and your brain into doing what you want. Not finding harmony and playing along with them as they get what they want, because what they want leads to being a 600lbs blob ordering pizzas over the internet, because there wasn't that option until very recently.
But yeah, cutting sugars works because then you eat less, and I've never tried it myself but I find it easy to believe that cutting salt and spices and eating bland food helps too, not because it produces some magical alchemy in your gut but because you reduce the "calories in" to the level of "I really need to eat something" rather than "I want to enjoy a firework of a meal".
Evolutionary biology? It hasn't been since the 50s until this shit came on market.
Exactly what I'm saying.
Because evolutionarily speaking, at no point besides the last fifty years of the human evolution the work of "the hierarchy of energy expenditure" was to waste as much energy as possible. It was always depositing as much of extra energy as possible as fat, that was the measure of efficiency that our ancestors lived or died by, all the way back to single-celled organisms.
The OP did some hardcore Keto shit. That razor magician (with the small guy) ate nothing but boiled 'taters for 2 months or someshit. You gotta have a good strat like that.
Idk, you'll lose weight doing shit like keto but you don't really learn to eat healthy and if you were significantly overweight before that'll be an issue because you probably will fall back into old habits once you stop following your specific dieting plan.
Eating clean (veggies, lean meat, no or reduced snacking, no soda, etc.), getting the right macros, and making sure to achieve a daily calorie deficit of 500 to 1000 calories (possibly with added cardio) will also help you lose weight and you actually can sustain that sort of diet after you've lost the weight.
Not to mention that in the end Keto, is the very same shit you do in every successful diet: counting calories. They all act like the ketosis is the hidden trick of weighloss, yet they still count calories like everyone else to reach their goal
Yeah I'm actually agreeing with them on this one. "Eat less move more" is technically correct but it's so incredibly oversimplified that it's absolutely useless as advice. It's only good for jerking your weiner raw on the internet about being skinnyfat.
What part of about not shoveling food in your face because you're sad/bored/anxious is hard to get? There is a billion dollar industry that revolves around learning how to do so. If someone on the internet tells you CICO it's not fucking rocket science to search up how do so.
This is just like the incel problem, where lazy fucks who have become accustomed to passive lifestyles become outraged when forced to make proactive change to get the results they want. They just claim that they're fundamentally deficient and that the system was rigged against them to begin with.
Yeah but they think "calories in calories out" is "reductionist", which is like thinking "forces on the x and y axis are separate" is reductionist; it's a belief that something is too simple to represent a 'complex' system, even though most systems are that simple, or only slightly more complex.
There's one person in there saying "when I counted calories I felt compelled to eat less and did under 500 a day". Okay, well that's wrong. You spend like a week figuring out what you're currently eating. Then you look at what 'costs' the most. 100 for a slice of bread on its own? Not worth it. It doesn't even fill you up. You could eat another chunk of meat for that, or about as many vegetables (your pick) as you want. Way better snacks. Dip it in peanut-butter if you want; just watch how much you eat and it's still more filling for the same number of calories.
Instead they just count and feel bad for every one they eat and they starve themselves. Instead of setting a reasonable budget, like a 10% reduction in their current plan, they just starve themselves and blame the system that made them realize just how much they take in.
It's all their fault, and when it fails it's them doing it wrong, but hey, that's the system's faulty apparently.
I can understand being sad that you're missing out on things like sweets but you can eat extremely filling food that is low on calories. I got a lettuce wrap from Jimmy Johns that was really filling and tasted pretty good without being a lot of calories and I've been trying to figure out how to do the same at home but my lettuce wraps are shit so far.
Hey all. I lost 60 lbs. and I was just saying it's very hard to break out of a "I will always be fat" mindset. But hate on me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself. :)
Throughout history, we have evolved and evolved. From apes into sweaty man, this has allowed for many different ways to express and communicate with each other. Starting, most likely from primal grunts and hand motions (you still do this at bedroom at night by the way), we’ve worked our way to advanced forms of language and yes we don’t really use it as much as we could. Instead we resort to archaec forms of communication and colorful hieroglyphics because we find this method more efficient and let’s face it, FUN. HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAH crying laughing emoji. EGGPLANT. For the years in the Internet we found many different ways to express emotion and our tastes have changed. It may have started with “Wow, I find that quite funny”, then it became “LOL”, “haHAA” and the dreaded “XD”. Now it's the degeneracy of crying face emoji. You my friend are a true degenerate and the evolutaionary step backward.
It funny because it really boils to eat less, exercise more. That was my diet. My motivation was having a brush with health problems. Anyone will overcome food addiction once they end up in extreme pain due to their weight. When they say it is more complex, it is just "but I dont want to".
I love CB2. They love to make subjects seem super complicated, and as soon as they succeed, pretend like they're all savants of the field. Totally different from the other parts of reddit they critisize.
It's more like saying "just be abstinent" when someone says that STDs and unwanted pregnancies are becoming a problem.
But that is literally a solution. If you do that, you won't have to worry about abortion or STDs.
As you no doubt know, you don't die if you don't have sex. This has downsides (ie, /u/Ed_ButteredToast) but to pretend its not an option is gross and pretty male feministy.
But if your solution doesn't get any actual results then it's a shit solution. Telling people to be abstinent is statistically a horrible and completely ineffective solution to stopping unwanted pregnancy.
I mean on paper he's right, if you don't have sex then you won't get pregnant or diseases, it's just that that obviously doesn't work out in real life.
Which is exactly what my argument is. Of course calories in vs claories out works, but it's useless as a piece of weightloss advice because statistically, telling people to diet properly is as effective as telling people not to have sex.
I love how you think being critical of pseudoscientific and unhelpful dietary advice is the same as being unhealthy. You seem like a pathetic and deeply alone little boy
"Neural highways" is not a term that anyone educated in biology or medicine would use. You're looking for neural network".
Also, hilariously, while having a high calorie diet leads to accumulation of fats in peripheral bodily tissues, it is a high fat diet (that a lot of people on keto resort to) that leads to fat accumulation in the brain. (Mühlhäusler 2012)
Try again, dummy. Next time on someone that isn't in medical school.
Neural highways is in quotation marks because thats not the technical term you absolute dingus. Congrats on google searching the term you uneducated hick.
I love how committed you are to saying I'm fat as if that will prove your point. Do you have a fetish? Regardless, I'm done wasting my time with you. Enjoy jerking it to Tess Holliday and then guiltily posting on /r/Drama in penance. Hope your mom doesn't hear you through the door!
Cico is neither pseudoscience nor dietary advice, it's an overwhelmingly well researched dietary principle that you base the actual diet or dietary advice on. Stop being such a laughably bad stereotype.
You're right: it's useless advice. Like responding with "spend less" when someone asks you how you managed to buy super expensive car on your salary. Overall correct, but useless when what someone is really asking you is: "did you change what you eat?" "what do you eat?" "do you focus on eating less or working out more?" "do I have to do both or just one?"
Maybe you could not be a stereotype and think about what someone is asking you instead of trying to get out a half-formed insult.
It's more along the lines of answering "make a budget" to the car question, not just "spend less", and to draw your parallel further, you can't really help anyone make a budget if they refuse to accept that a strict budget is necessary in the first place, and keep complaining that "budgeted spending" is disordered thinking, unhealthy and reductionist, and they keep insisting that practicing "intuitive spending" is the only thing that works.
The vast majority of beginner dieting questions we get in the fitness sub are people just looking for some shortcut or impossibly simple dietary guidelines like "if I just don't eat fastfood I can eat however much I want right", and until they understand that they will see literally zero progress until their intake is less than their expenditure, and that actually monitoring caloric content may be necessary for them to manage that, there is nothing we can do to actually help other than throwing every shitty fad diet at them until one hopefully sticks.
You can take making a budget to a disordered extreme - see also the frugaljerk stereotype. Some people have a tendency to take good habits to an extreme, and they need to work with a method that doesn't exacerbate that issue.
By and large, the circlebroke thread was focusing on how the conversation about diet on reddit is usually oversimplified to just "eat less" so much so that it's a meme. In reality, it is a very complicated topic. You would get frustrated too if every personal finance thread had "budget" as the only answer. The meme prevents all deeper conversation. And when people call that out, you get this thread in response: any one who acknowledges that weight loss is hard and may require a nuanced approach is a fat fuck.
My problem with that is that a worryingly large amount of people seem to view just counting calories as that disordered extreme, as opposed to taking calorie counting which in itself is healthy, to a disordered extreme.
Also saying that cico is unhelpfully simplified is a far stretch from calling it pseudoscience. Trying to help people with diets when they refuse to accept that cico is the foundation any successful diet is built upon quickly devolves into a frustrating exercise in futility for both parties involved. And seeing people you care about put in a ton of effort while spinning their wheels because they outright dismiss actually budgeting their calories as even an option is heartbreaking.
Weight loss can be extremely hard, but it is extremely simple as a concept. And if you actually do want to help people be able to reach their weight loss goals you are more than welcome to join us in providing answers in the simple questions thread and new queue in rfitness, rather than yelling contrarianisms into the void in cb2.
CB2 is only for calling out ridiculous circlejerks on reddit and talking about them. Nothing else. It was you people on this sub that decided it was a profound commentary on fitness as a whole. You aren't helping anyone either here on Drama, where all people do is call others fatties for not falling for the latest fad diet. For a great critique on the keto diet and why I don't think it's the panacea to all your weight troubles, check out the Sawbones episode on the subject by Dr. Sydnee McElroy
CB2 is only for calling out ridiculous circlejerks on reddit and talking about them. Nothing else. It was you people on this sub that decided it was a profound commentary on fitness as a whole. You aren't helping anyone either here on Drama, where all people do is call others fatties for not falling for the latest fad diet.
CB2 is being outraged about reddit circlejerks that that doesn't agree with CB2's beliefs and being a circlejerk sub doesn't give you an escape card from being mocked yourself.
You went from calling CICO "pseudoscience" to "unhelpful advice" after being called out.
I’m ignoring your “actual points” because you all ignored mine and the context it came from, choosing instead to call me fat and uneducated.
I do not respond to bad faith arguments like an academic debate. The arguments that use proponents to advocate for keto are mostly pseudoscience. But that’s ok, you can call me fat and it’ll all be fine :)
I’m ignoring your “actual points” because you all ignored mine and the context it came from
Your very first reply to the broken scales insult was "Sorry I don't believe in pseudoscience".
Regardless of the insult unless said user actually mentioned any dietary methods that are actual pseudoscience or espoused many of the misunderstandings about Keto, I am considering the topic of discussion to be still Keto In general.
I do not respond to bad faith arguments like an academic debate.
Unless the the user who called you fat is the same user who seriously and politely engaged you, It isn't an argument in bad faith.
It's funny actually you whine about people calling you fat which is based on the generalizations of CB2 users while at the same time call users who engaged you honestly and intelligently as people arguing in bad faith and call them cultists.
This all came from a CB2 thread, that was in response to another thread on reddit.
There are people up and down this thread calling me fat. See also: the title of this thread. I do not believe that anyone in this thread wants to engage honestly, especially after you resort to insults within a couple minutes of me not capitulating.
Lastly: I am critical of the keto diet because it's proponents use pseudoscience to justify it's effectiveness. Sure, it can work generally but no better than literally any other diet out there. It is not magic. There are very real health consequences to it, including gout and cholesterol abnormalities. If it helps you understand it better, it's the same as the crossfit craze. Sure, working out is good for you but there are dangers based in how hard you're injuring your joints and lack of focus on form. Finally, I am critical about "calories in calories out" because it is a meme on reddit and actually losing weight is complicated and hard. Oversimplifying the choices you have to make does not help people who really need it.
The reddit circlejerk is far more accurate than the self admitted CB2 whiningjerk that misrepresents and lies about data. Keto isn't at all ideal but it's far more preferable than the shit diets that most overweight people have.
“put down the fork” is hardly useless advice in a world where there’s a multibillion dollar industry trying to convince you that weight loss requires doctorates in nutrition and exercise
It’s so funny what your stereotypes are and how little you take in evidence that contradicts them. I’m a medical student.
Clearly you don’t know how to extrapolate from data, nor have you read the other thread. Most of the bro science justifying keto isn’t based in actual fact.
Don't misrepresent what I said: I said CICO is reductionist and unhelpful, not incorrect.
And even I know that conservation of energy does not apply in an open system like the human body, as we exchange matter and energy with the environment around us (food, waste, etc.)
if the environment could provide nourishment it would be impossible to starve
and I think it’s incredibly helpful to inform people of the truth when it comes to weight loss, namely that you can ignore the endless marketing from the multibillion dollar weight loss industry, and simply reduce your intake
And even I know that conservation of energy does not apply in an open system like the human body, as we exchange matter and energy with the environment around us (food, waste, etc.)
Humans don't really exchange matter and energy with the environment in any significant way other than energy in (food) energy out (BMR + thermic effect of food + activity + to a very small degree excrement), the human body makes no meaningful use of energy absorbed through i.e heat or radiation in metabolic processes, same for the energy out part, the heat and waste we expel are all part of metabolic processes that are factored in to BMR and TDEE. The calculations aren't accurate to several decimals worth of precision, but once you have a measured intake + measured change in weight, you can narrow the estimation down to be more accurate than you would ever need for weight loss/gain or dietary purposes, the small unknowns and fluctuations left are wholly insignificant.
Also both my parents are surgeons and I've discussed these problems with them at length through my own training and dietary plans, and I know for a fact no self respecting medical school is teaching any differently.
Fun to know that "discussing at length" is the same as 4 years of undergrad + 4 years of medical school + residency! Congrats on your honorary MD!
My medical school would be thrilled to know that I understand how diseases like Cushing's and PCOS, and medications like antidepressants and antipsychotics lead to weight gain and alter metabolism!
So outside of your insults, you are trying to tell me that medical school taught you that the human body works more akin to an open system where you have to account for energy absorbed through external heat and work, and that it expels meaningful amounts of mass and energy outside of metabolic processes that makes bmr and tdee calculations coupled with measured weight change wrong and inaccurate?
Also I'll be delighted to tell my parents someone fresh out of residency told them their combined 70 years of medical experience is wrong, I know thats their favourite thing to hear.
What medical school was this and what specialty did you study?
Also no one is denying that diseases and medication can alter metabolic processes, stop moving the goal posts.
Your purposeful misunderstanding of what I'm saying is truly tragic. I am saying that losing weight is complicated, and that the "black box" of your metabolism is not the same as anyone elses and therefore saying "eat less" is reductionist. Also keto is not a magic diet.
Best wishes to your mommy and daddy on their idiot son, and I'm truly sorry he's swinging around their MDs like it matters online
Quit fucking deflecting. Also "idiot son", "swinging around their MDs like it matters", are you wholly fucking incapable of arguing a single point without resulting to childish insults like some basement dwelling teenager.
You tried arguing a point that directly contradicts basically all of the scientific literature on the subject, and that directly contradicts what I've been repeatedly told by two people I have a very close relationship with, who can be seen as authorities on the subject, of course I'm going to bring that up. You even tried to bring up "attended medical school" as a fucking position of authority.
Did you also learn to act like such a socially inept and scientifically illiterate asshole in medical school?
This is fucking hilarious that you expect me to respect your points while you repeatedly attack my education, weight, etc. I could not give fewer fucks what relationships you have with physicians, you cannot use their degrees as your own. You were the type of person we laughed our asses off at: an overprivelged kid of physicians who thinks that gives them some sort of authority or insight into the world. YOU refuse to see the points I'm making and even examine them critically. YOU are the one oversimplifying a complicated topic and not addressing the issues at hand and have zero critical thinking skills. I'm done debating a child who is sitting at home and redirecting their self-loathing towards fat people.
I havent attacked your weight a single fucking time you mongoloid, which I also pointed out to you the last time you tried to accuse me of it. The persecution complex you have regarding weight is fucking ridicolous. I haven't once used anyones degrees as my own, I pointed out that your argument contradict what they argue, and I specified that they were the ones saying it, not once did I pretend I had a medical degree or that I am an authority on the subject.
You were the type of person we laughed our asses off at: an overprivelged kid of physicians who thinks that gives them some sort of authority or insight into the world.
Jesus christ, and you are exactly the type of student we laugh our asses of at every dinner I have with them and their colleagues, some kid in premed who immediately runs out into the world and pretends they are a medical authority.
The issue at hand is that you "a medical student" argues that cico is "oversimplified and unhelpful dietary advice" when no one have ever used it as such in any serious capacity, and your main gripe with the overwhelmingly scientifically backed concept of calorie expenditure is that "reddit circlejerks it too much", and for some reason you keep throwing insults at me for "attacking your weight" which i again haven't done a single time, and keep brining up "but keto" as some sort of gotcha, even though I havent mentioned keto once.
I'm done debating a child who is sitting at home and redirecting their self-loathing towards fat people.
Just throwing impotent insults at me for hours isn't a fucking debate, and I haven't said a single negative thing about fat people at all. Grow up.
"You didn't provide a complete year long dietary plan and a graduate level explanation of the human metabolism? Fucking reductionist assholes REEEEEE!"
The bad analogies and misrepresented studies hamplanets use in their crusade against CICO is just shameful. Admitting to being a committed lardass is better, because at least it means you're not retarded.
196 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-07-01
I am not sure which is more cringey, the litany of erroneous assumptions you splayed out or the act of calling upon the student archetype with the intent of derision. Anti-intellectualism, check. src
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1 GARBAGE_MACHINE 2018-07-01
Comparing not stuffing your face with ice cream to being a heroin addict 👌👌👌
1 Destirigon 2018-07-01
Tbf to me - and, let's be honest, most people - ice cream and chocolate are way more tempting than heroin.
1 helppls555 2018-07-01
I'm no scientist but that's probably because candy is available for cheap everywhere and heroin isn't. Also, you probably haven't had a really great hit if you say that
1 Ikkinn 2018-07-01
A non user would get high as fuck of 10 bucks of dope
1 totalrandomperson 2018-07-01
Also, unlike heroin, you can't go cold turkey with food.
1 Elite_AI 2018-07-01
You can't really go cold turkey with heroin, either, AFAIK.
1 totalrandomperson 2018-07-01
I'm pretty sure heroin withdraw, while unpleasant, can't kill you.
1 Elite_AI 2018-07-01
FRANK told me otherwise tho
1 Tyler11223344 2018-07-01
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it can for regular users
1 Talran 2018-07-01
Nope, it's just super uncomfortable; won't kill you like alcohol DTs will.
1 Tyler11223344 2018-07-01
I mean, am I going insane or is everything on Google wrong? Honest question, since I'm a tad drunk
1 Talran 2018-07-01
"Withdrawal from heroin isn’t generally considered life-threatening on its own; however, some of the medical and psychological symptoms may have complications that may be life-threatening. Depression may lead someone to consider suicide, for example."
Basically you're only in danger of keeping yourself safe.
1 Tyler11223344 2018-07-01
I stand corrected! I obviously need more beer
1 Talran 2018-07-01
Aye! I'm about to pour my first of the night.
1 IllustriousQuail 2018-07-01
Heroin withdrawl is not life-threatening. Alcohol and benzo withdrawl, however, actually can kill you.
1 serialflamingo 2018-07-01
Alcohol and benzos are the only things that'll directly kill you by going cold turkey iirc
1 LifeIsVanilla 2018-07-01
Cold turkey is perfectly fine as far as food goes. I only warm up the gravy when I'm making my turkey sandwiches.
1 BrideOfAutobahn 2018-07-01
to test your theory, you should eat an ice cream sundae and shoot up heroin and see which one you crave a repeat of first
1 Shark_life 2018-07-01
The hit. The rush. The crash. The need for another fix.
This roller coaster-like experience is one we usually associate with an addictive drug: sugar.
1 Shark_life 2018-07-01
Fatty detected.
1 Destirigon 2018-07-01
Moron detected.
1 Shark_life 2018-07-01
Only a fatty thinks that chocolate is more tempting than heroin.
1 shallowm 2018-07-01
counterargument: way more people have eaten chocolate than used heroin
1 GARBAGE_MACHINE 2018-07-01
Not any type of argument
1 Alexlincoln2 2018-07-01
How so?
1 serialflamingo 2018-07-01
That's absolutely an argument. Heroin is only really tempting if you're addicted to it, most people don't just suddenly think "I could really go for some heroin rn" but I'd imagine most people have thought that about ice cream or chocolate.
1 Destirigon 2018-07-01
👏 👏 👏
1 LedinToke 2018-07-01
lmao
1 aef823 2018-07-01
Pretty sure that's what the f in tbf meant.
1 Nopepole 2018-07-01
No.
1 lm12btw 2018-07-01
Yeah but you can still eat ice cream and chocolate even a good amount and still not be a fat fucking pig
1 Burnnoticelover 2018-07-01
If they sold heroin at every store checkout, you can bet America would look like a 90s Hollywood party in about a month.
1 banhminobanhyou 2018-07-01
That whole section was great because literally each one is right.
Yeah, people call this practice. It works.
1 DoktuhParadox 2018-07-01
Here in /r/drama we like to call ourselves retards, but CB2 has people in it that really don't think that one of the steps to overcoming an addiction is to stop using whatever substance you're addicted to. Strange times we live in
1 DoktuhParadox 2018-07-01
/u/SevenLight believe it or not this is actually the first step to overcoming heroin addiction.
Thus fatties must simply put down the fork. It really is that simple. It's what happens afterwards that seperates the junkies from the sober addicts.
1 MasterLawlz 2018-07-01
I’m trying to lose weight and this is kind of what I realized. When I lived with my dad I ate bad food because it was always around. But now I realized “Hey, I could just not buy that food to begin with.”
Hopefully it works out long term lol
1 menvaren 2018-07-01
Best of luck, man. Starting is the hard part.
1 MasterLawlz 2018-07-01
Thanks!
1 LedinToke 2018-07-01
I've reduced my soda consumption to about once or twice a week and the only reason i can do it is cause i stopped buying it in bulk, it's weird at first but I got used to it.
Just don't weenie out and ur good fam
1 MasterLawlz 2018-07-01
Yeah, I don't think I have much of a chance of relapse because truth be told, food wasn't really that important to me. When I moved out, I realized there was really no food or sugary beverage that I just couldn't live without and I don't have to give up meat so it's not like you can't still have good tasting food. I'm really avoiding bread and sugar though.
The only thing I miss are oreos, those things are delicious.
1 LedinToke 2018-07-01
just get like a small pack out of a vending machine once a week or something, that's all you get tho u dirty bad eater u
1 serialflamingo 2018-07-01
I'd totally be fat if I kept shitty food in the house.
1 GARBAGE_MACHINE 2018-07-01
That worked for me.
I'd there's junk in my house, I'll eat it, so I just don't buy junk.
Good luck, dude.
1 banhminobanhyou 2018-07-01
Limiting access is the best step after "I want to stop doing this."
After that is making a healthy plan for recognizing and dealing with situations when you're around it or feel compelled to use it. Healthy is relative to you and your better moments: some drunks need to avoid anything or anyone alcohol related, others might need to start their night by taking the bus instead of driving.
Then it's just plain grinding that shit out for the rest of your life. You get used to it pretty quick.
1 IllustriousQuail 2018-07-01
But . . . that is the way to stop being a heroin addict.
1 Peetrius 2018-07-01
Sugar is actually more addicting than most drugs, your point still stands though.
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
stopping heroin addiction is exactly as simple as stopping taking heroin, and the way to not be fat is as simple as eating less
just because a solution is simple doesn’t mean it’s easy though, and that whole CB2 thread is fatties pretending not to know the difference between the two concepts
1 BrideOfAutobahn 2018-07-01
the concept of watching what you eat is like an attack to these people
1 LSDawson 2018-07-01
b-b-but starvation mode
1 YameteOniichanItai 2018-07-01
watching what you eat is basically equivalent to an eating disorder to these people. Someone online tried to convince me once that I had one just because I mentioned that I rarely (basically never) eat sweets. It's ridiculous.
1 BrideOfAutobahn 2018-07-01
2 years ago i was a great big fat guy. with minor adjustments to my diet and a little bit of discipline, i lost over 100lbs and am now at a healthy weight, ~20 BMI. i don't exercise.
fat people have no self control. i imagine that obese people just sit on their ass eating french fries and candy bars all day, there's no other way to maintain that kind of blob physique.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
People laugh at me when I say it's what you eat not how much. Simple sugars are a scourge.
1 22333444455555666666 2018-07-01
its neither, its literally just calories
it doesnt matter if half your calories for the day are coming from a gigantic slice of cake if you're only eating 1200
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
... This truism isn't really holding up to scientific research and is a laughably bad understanding of how the body processes different macro nutrients into energy, waste, and body fat.
You have villages in Greece where kCal intake is well above 2000 yet obesity is minimal. The only difference is that processed sugars haven't invaded the culture in a significant way.
Body fat isn't as much of a credit account for energy as we believe it is.
1 ___-III----III-___ 2018-07-01
I see we have a retard in our midst
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
How is what I said retarded? It's high school level science that different macro nutrients get broken down and expended/excreted/stored. If this want the case we wouldn't have different binding enzymes, different hormones for energy creation/use, etc.
"Buhbuhbuh CICO" is insanely imbecilic and untested science from almost 50 years ago.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Here, have fun with this my dude:
Several metabolic ward studies have shown that there is no difference in weight loss when protein intake was held constant.1
Metabolic effects of isoenergetic nutrient exchange over 24 hours in relation to obesity in women.2
Energy-intake restriction and diet-composition effects on energy expenditure in men.
Nutrient balance in humans: effects of diet composition.
Nutrient balance and energy expenditure during ad libitum feeding of high-fat and high-carbohydrate diets in humans.
Substrate oxidation and energy expenditure in athletes and nonathletes consuming isoenergetic high- and low-fat diets.
Regulation of macronutrient balance in healthy young and older men.
The effect of protein intake on 24-h energy expenditure during energy restriction.
Effects of dietary fat and carbohydrate exchange on human energy metabolism.
Energy expenditure in humans: effects of dietary fat and carbohydrate.
Failure to increase lipid oxidation in response to increasing dietary fat content in formerly obese women.2
Energy intake required to maintain body weight is not affected by wide variation in diet composition.
Weight-loss with low or high carbohydrate diet?
Effect of high protein vs high carbohydrate intake on insulin sensitivity, body weight, hemoglobin A1c, and blood pressure in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.
For a good review of the situation that includes a synthesis of the first 10 of these studies, I suggest you read this paper:
To continue the parade of literature showing no winner in the carbs v. fat battle royale:
Long Term Effects of Energy-Restricted Diets Differing in Glycemic Load on Metabolic Adaptation and Body Composition
Long-term effects of 2 energy-restricted diets differing in glycemic load on dietary adherence, body composition, and metabolism in CALERIE: a 1-y randomized controlled trial.
Efficacy and safety of low-carbohydrate diets: a systematic review.
Popular Diets: A Scientific Review
Effects of 4 weight-loss diets differing in fat, protein, and carbohydrate on fat mass, lean mass, visceral adipose tissue, and hepatic fat: results from the POUNDS LOST trial.
In type 2 diabetes, randomisation to advice to follow a low-carbohydrate diet transiently improves glycaemic control compared with advice to follow a low-fat diet producing a similar weight loss.
Comparison of weight-loss diets with different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.
Similar weight loss with low- or high-carbohydrate diets.
Energy intake required to maintain body weight is not affected by wide variation in diet composition.
Effect of energy restriction, weight loss, and diet composition on plasma lipids and glucose in patients with type 2 diabetes.
Effects of moderate variations in macronutrient composition on weight loss and reduction in cardiovascular disease risk in obese, insulin-resistant adults.
Atkins and other low-carbohydrate diets: hoax or an effective tool for weight loss?
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets.
Lack of suppression of circulating free fatty acids and hypercholesterolemia during weight loss on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet.
Low-fat versus low-carbohydrate weight reduction diets: effects on weight loss, insulin resistance, and cardiovascular risk: a randomized control trial.
Comparison of the Atkins, Ornish, Weight Watchers, and Zone diets for weight loss and heart disease risk reduction: a randomized trial.
Long-term effects of a very-low-carbohydrate weight loss diet compared with an isocaloric low-fat diet after 12 mo.
Weight and metabolic outcomes after 2 years on a low-carbohydrate versus low-fat diet: a randomized trial.
The effect of a plant-based low-carbohydrate ("Eco-Atkins") diet on body weight and blood lipid concentrations in hyperlipidemic subjects.
To come at this problem from the other side, here are three studies showing no difference in weight gain when the ratio of carbs:fat is manipulated:
Fat and carbohydrate overfeeding in humans: different effects on energy storage.3
Macronutrient disposal during controlled overfeeding with glucose, fructose, sucrose, or fat in lean and obese women.
Effects of isoenergetic overfeeding of either carbohydrate or fat in young men.
It may also interest you to learn that dietary fat is what is stored as bodily fat, when a caloric excess is consumed. And that for dietary carbohydrates to be stored as fat (which requires conversion through the process called 'de novo lipogenesis' the carbohydrate portion of one's diet alone must approach or exceed one's TDEE.
Lyle's got great read on this subject, but if you prefer a more scientific one I suggest you give this review a gander:
For a great primer on insulin (with tons of citations) and how it really functions, check out this series:
Insulin…an Undeserved Bad Reputation
The series was summarized quite well in this post.
1 If you're really looking for a metabolic advantage through macronutrient manipulation, you'd be far better off putting your money on protein. There's actually some evidence that higher intake levels do convey a small metabolic advantage.
2 These two papers actually found a decreased amount of energy expenditure in the high fat diets.
3 This study found a greater of amount of fat gain in the high fat diet, though weight gain was still similar.
1 KittehDragoon 2018-07-01
😻😻😻 Now that's a lot of sources 😻😻😻
1 Jackdom95 2018-07-01
jesus christ how long did this shit take you
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
I didn't actually write it, I just keep it handy for when morons keep complaining that "cico don't real".
1 LedinToke 2018-07-01
This is advanced online autism
1 freet0 2018-07-01
Is there a word for this thing you just did where you overwhelm your opponent with sources to the point that in order to respond to all of them they would have to spend hours reading and then write a book-length comment?
I mean, I think you're right on this topic, but as a tactic it still seems less than good faith. And I've seen it plenty of times before (the black crime copypasta, list of times [sub] has done [bad thing], this list of Trump's 1800+ lies, etc).
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Yeah I think it's just being an asshole, but when some ignorant twat makes an unfounded argument as stupid as:
It's just too tempting to just straight up hit that mosquito with a full on artillery bombardment.
1 Cuckmeister 2018-07-01
gish gallop
1 freet0 2018-07-01
that's it, thanks
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Isn't a gish gallop using a long string of, by them self, weak and nonsensical arguments? That's not nearly the same as drowning someone in actual sources that support your claim, although I'd agree it's probably close in terms of being an asshole.
1 JilaX 2018-07-01
99% of the time, all the sources linked are just absolute random garbage with horrible methodologies (when they're studies) and are barely correlated, much less actually relevant, to the argument at hand.
It's very much a correct term when doing that.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2018-07-01
unless those links support his argument.
1 MERCYLOVER163 2018-07-01
The virgin autism accusation vs the chad sperg ✌🏾👌🏿👌🏿
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-weight/best-diet-quality-counts/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2897733/
I could go on but is it really that much of a stretch to say shit foods adds to body fat instead of total food? Because I think you misunderstand me honestly.
1 Alexlincoln2 2018-07-01
It's an absolute stretch
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
Yeah, but he's not my kind of retard. He's not making me laugh, he's making me smh
1 Gtyyler 2018-07-01
And then there is the guy who ate McDonald's every day and lost weight
1 22333444455555666666 2018-07-01
lmao ok buddy, im sure telling a whale that she can eat 3000 calories a day as long as she avoids processed sugars is gonna work better than telling her to eat under 1500 calories
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
Not just avoiding processed sugars but going for lean protein and complex carbs...
1 hendo144 2018-07-01
But if she eats more than her tdee in proteins and complex carbs, then she wont lose weight.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
... Or she'll poop or sweat it out. Ffs basically basic nurturion bs
1 hendo144 2018-07-01
Soshe wont gain weight?
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
Pretty much.
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
Her body isn't going to digest complex carbs with how fucked her metabolism will be by the time she hits landwhale status. Your inability to comprehend basic human anatomy is comical
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
No u
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
oh shit
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
In all seriousness though a better formed diet is much better than caloric restriction. Just seems to work better long term.
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
A combination of the two is what will do it. It is impossible to lose weight without having a negative calorie intake to output. Yes having a good diet is better than just not eating other than a bowl of cereal and a hotdog, especially for one's sanity and for the longevity of a diet, buuuuuuuut, if we are talking about simple thermodynamics, it's literally just math. Holy run-on sentence...
1 hotdog_bot 2018-07-01
You put "hotdog", did you mean open-faced sausage sandwich? 🌭
I'm a bot bleep, bloop
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
What a faggy ass bot
1 hotdog_bot 2018-07-01
You put "hotdog", did you mean open-faced sausage sandwich? 🌭
I'm a bot bleep, bloop
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
Found a bot for y'all to ban mods
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
Holy shit does No one on here party attention to nutrition journals?
Body fat isn't as easy to burn off like a credit account. Shit sugars from muscles get used before that.
1 serialflamingo 2018-07-01
That's true, but it's also true that you're more likely to feel hungry and therefore binge if your diet is made up of shit like cake.
1 GenitalGesticulation 2018-07-01
A big problem is places like starbucks and dutch bros that have successfully convinced millions of americans that milkshakes are coffee.
1 allwordsaredust 2018-07-01
They think that counting calories is an eating disorder because some anorexics do it obsessively, forgetting that “obsessive” is the key part that makes it a disorder. I think they’re trying to convince themselves more than anything, tbh, so they don’t have to feel bad about the damage they’re doing to their bodies.
1 lm12btw 2018-07-01
I eat sweets all the time and manage not to be a fat fuck. Moderation is key. Also I purposefully avoid soda because that means I can eat a piece of cake later. Fuck yeah
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2018-07-01
I blame the rise in faux health foods. I know people who will gladly eat an entire bag of vegetable chips while only picking at regular potato chips. Alcohol has a ton of calories too and many wine moms don't realize this.
1 PhysicsIsMyMistress 2018-07-01
Except it doesn't work. It sounds simple to you because you're retarded but there's a reason the whole field of behavioral psychology exists and thinking you're somehow immune to what makes people human shows you're either autistic or retarded.
1 BrideOfAutobahn 2018-07-01
you're right, eating bad food in large amounts is fine and self control is impossible
1 PhysicsIsMyMistress 2018-07-01
Imagine being this bad at understanding what people are saying.
1 BrideOfAutobahn 2018-07-01
are you a fatass?
1 shallowm 2018-07-01
not in the way you think
1 PhysicsIsMyMistress 2018-07-01
My butt is big
1 Elite_AI 2018-07-01
Yes you fucking idiot, discipline is too much to ask. People don't get obese without some sort of deep underlying problem. Obviously the solution is to eat less, but getting there takes more than literally just not eating less.
1 moddestmouse 2018-07-01
The problem is being a fucking moron and decoupling cause and effect. Every single person I know that’s obese has ripples of control and responsibility issues across their whole lives. It’s literslly that simple.
1 banhminobanhyou 2018-07-01
Like all problems, if we think hard enough about it we'll eventually be gifted a magical epiphany that makes all the problems go away.
I mean, that's a lot easier and makes me ego feel better than putting in the constant work and effort required to start taking each one of the small steps that gets me closer to my personal goals.
1 brianpv 2018-07-01
Maybe it sounds simple to him because he does it every day.
1 dragonbornrises 2018-07-01
Whats so absurd about reducing your weight 🤔🤔🤔?
1 Not_RCMP_ 2018-07-01
Its haaaaarrrrrd
1 Death_Trolley 2018-07-01
There’s no better way to identify yourself as a fatty online than by criticizing CICO
1 Peepeeopsis 2018-07-01
While some of the lardasses in that thread are in denial about the calorie rule, some do have a point. Most non-delusional lards know they need to lower their calories. The problem is how they need to do it. Dieting incorrectly can cause shit like constant hunger, dizziness, no brainpower, etc.
The OP did some hardcore Keto shit. That razor magician (with the small guy) ate nothing but boiled 'taters for 2 months or someshit. You gotta have a good strat like that.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
I remember reading that just eating bland food (as in, no salt or spices) works surprisingly well. Of course it kinda makes you kinda miserable.
1 BasicallyADoctor 2018-07-01
White people have been doing that since time immemorial and yet they still remain obese
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
Wypo like salty and sweet food tho.
1 helppls555 2018-07-01
Millions of dead [insert color] people just so mayo gets its hands on spice say otherwise.
1 BasicallyADoctor 2018-07-01
White people be like... Oh heavens Gertrude this chicken is spicy! A little heavy on the salt today, huh?
1 helppls555 2018-07-01
More like... Oh heavans Archibald, this spicy chicken tastes ten times better knowing that the EICo had to kill thousands of savages to bring it here! Would you like some more saffron on your pie dear? We certainly have enough of it
1 KittehDragoon 2018-07-01
Stop. Using. Saffron. As. A. Garnish.
1 Nopepole 2018-07-01
But dey don't eat it doe, they just sniff it.
1 Elite_AI 2018-07-01
Based American
1 Destirigon 2018-07-01
Probably because it tastes so bad that you voluntarily eat as little as possible.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
Duh.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
... but the point is that it's not "I'M LITERALLY DYING OF STARVATION ON THIS DIET", it's eating food only because you're actually hungry instead of having sugar and fat and salt orgy on your tongue.
1 Peetrius 2018-07-01
A lot of people also think they need to eat until they're full, or whenever they feel any pinch of hunger. When I started losing weight and experimented with intermittent fasting or occasionally skipping meals i would feel pretty hungry at first, but 30 minutes later feel normal again. It's just a matter of self control and most of those people who complain about CICO are literally addicted to sugar and eating themselves to an early grave.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
Salt? Def.
Spices? Load up. Barely any negative effects.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
Citation needed. Because the point is to make eating a bare necessity when you're hungry rather than a fun pastime. Spices do spice it up.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
It's coming from the assumption that less food is the way to lose body fat. And simply research has not been kind to that truism. Cutting proccessed sugars is the number one factor it seems: helps get insulin/cortisol down and let's the heirarchy of energy expenditure do it's work easier (aka resting tdee is higher, burn more during excersize, etc).
It's pretty much why fad diets that rely on CICO just don't work. Once you find less processed, tasty, and filling to replace non-filling garbage the body fat finally starts to get reduced.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
Except the main causal effect of that is eating less food.
I'm not buying this at all without citations, and not ordinary citations but metastudy level citations.
Because evolutionarily speaking, at no point besides the last fifty years of the human evolution the work of "the hierarchy of energy expenditure" was to waste as much energy as possible. It was always depositing as much of extra energy as possible as fat, that was the measure of efficiency that our ancestors lived or died by, all the way back to single-celled organisms.
You have to understand that if you want any success. Your goal is tricking your body and your brain into doing what you want. Not finding harmony and playing along with them as they get what they want, because what they want leads to being a 600lbs blob ordering pizzas over the internet, because there wasn't that option until very recently.
But yeah, cutting sugars works because then you eat less, and I've never tried it myself but I find it easy to believe that cutting salt and spices and eating bland food helps too, not because it produces some magical alchemy in your gut but because you reduce the "calories in" to the level of "I really need to eat something" rather than "I want to enjoy a firework of a meal".
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
Jfc get that bro science out of here. Evolutionary biology? It hasn't been since the 50s until this shit came on market.
It's not all sugars just simple that's hard to expend. Bro do you even ATP?
1 zergling_Lester 2018-07-01
Exactly what I'm saying.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
That second part is bull shit tho tbh. Most excess of quick burn nutrients turns to poop or sweat... Just how it goes
1 YameteOniichanItai 2018-07-01
Idk, you'll lose weight doing shit like keto but you don't really learn to eat healthy and if you were significantly overweight before that'll be an issue because you probably will fall back into old habits once you stop following your specific dieting plan.
Eating clean (veggies, lean meat, no or reduced snacking, no soda, etc.), getting the right macros, and making sure to achieve a daily calorie deficit of 500 to 1000 calories (possibly with added cardio) will also help you lose weight and you actually can sustain that sort of diet after you've lost the weight.
1 helppls555 2018-07-01
Not to mention that in the end Keto, is the very same shit you do in every successful diet: counting calories. They all act like the ketosis is the hidden trick of weighloss, yet they still count calories like everyone else to reach their goal
1 dramasexual 2018-07-01
Yeah I'm actually agreeing with them on this one. "Eat less move more" is technically correct but it's so incredibly oversimplified that it's absolutely useless as advice. It's only good for jerking your weiner raw on the internet about being skinnyfat.
1 PhysicsIsMyMistress 2018-07-01
It's basically like your writing teacher saying "show don't tell" without any specifics as to how to do that.
1 69TEKASHI6IX9INE69 2018-07-01
What part of about not shoveling food in your face because you're sad/bored/anxious is hard to get? There is a billion dollar industry that revolves around learning how to do so. If someone on the internet tells you CICO it's not fucking rocket science to search up how do so.
This is just like the incel problem, where lazy fucks who have become accustomed to passive lifestyles become outraged when forced to make proactive change to get the results they want. They just claim that they're fundamentally deficient and that the system was rigged against them to begin with.
1 TheCodexx 2018-07-01
Yeah but they think "calories in calories out" is "reductionist", which is like thinking "forces on the x and y axis are separate" is reductionist; it's a belief that something is too simple to represent a 'complex' system, even though most systems are that simple, or only slightly more complex.
There's one person in there saying "when I counted calories I felt compelled to eat less and did under 500 a day". Okay, well that's wrong. You spend like a week figuring out what you're currently eating. Then you look at what 'costs' the most. 100 for a slice of bread on its own? Not worth it. It doesn't even fill you up. You could eat another chunk of meat for that, or about as many vegetables (your pick) as you want. Way better snacks. Dip it in peanut-butter if you want; just watch how much you eat and it's still more filling for the same number of calories.
Instead they just count and feel bad for every one they eat and they starve themselves. Instead of setting a reasonable budget, like a 10% reduction in their current plan, they just starve themselves and blame the system that made them realize just how much they take in.
It's all their fault, and when it fails it's them doing it wrong, but hey, that's the system's faulty apparently.
1 Peepeeopsis 2018-07-01
Umm sweaty
1 Ultrashitposter 2018-07-01
But that's literally what it all comes down to.
1 ason 2018-07-01
This intentionally simple four-word summary of weight loss is too simple reeeeeeee!
1 DistortedLines 2018-07-01
Obviously, but you can't turn yourself into a victim if you don't blame your fatness on outside factors that are outside your control.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
Not true. Just don't eat garbage.
1 Elite_AI 2018-07-01
how did people get fat in the medieval period then
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-07-01
.. How many did? Jfc
1 Elite_AI 2018-07-01
A fair amount. What, did you think everyone was Warhammer-tier starving peasantry?
1 KokomoOReily 2018-07-01
What does this even mean
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
lots of fat vegetarians in the world
calories are calories
1 hery41 2018-07-01
dietitian resigned 😂😂
1 Ultrashitposter 2018-07-01
Dietitians usually advocate CICO because it's the most reliable way to lose weight.
1 80BAIT08 2018-07-01
This is how tho
1 SkaterMan 2018-07-01
i dont wanna practice
1 youcanteatbullets 2018-07-01
r/restoftheowl exists for a reason and it's not for actually useful guidance
1 LSDawson 2018-07-01
1 cheeZetoastee 2018-07-01
There's no point in ever trying because that's hard.
1 tempTemp0001 2018-07-01
There's no point in being thin if I have to make sacrifices in order to be thin
1 MasterLawlz 2018-07-01
I can understand being sad that you're missing out on things like sweets but you can eat extremely filling food that is low on calories. I got a lettuce wrap from Jimmy Johns that was really filling and tasted pretty good without being a lot of calories and I've been trying to figure out how to do the same at home but my lettuce wraps are shit so far.
1 Puggpu 2018-07-01
Hey all. I lost 60 lbs. and I was just saying it's very hard to break out of a "I will always be fat" mindset. But hate on me all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself. :)
1 MERCYLOVER163 2018-07-01
Uhhmmm 🤔 literally who 😅🔥😲
1 SageKnows 2018-07-01
Throughout history, we have evolved and evolved. From apes into sweaty man, this has allowed for many different ways to express and communicate with each other. Starting, most likely from primal grunts and hand motions (you still do this at bedroom at night by the way), we’ve worked our way to advanced forms of language and yes we don’t really use it as much as we could. Instead we resort to archaec forms of communication and colorful hieroglyphics because we find this method more efficient and let’s face it, FUN. HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAH crying laughing emoji. EGGPLANT. For the years in the Internet we found many different ways to express emotion and our tastes have changed. It may have started with “Wow, I find that quite funny”, then it became “LOL”, “haHAA” and the dreaded “XD”. Now it's the degeneracy of crying face emoji. You my friend are a true degenerate and the evolutaionary step backward.
1 Gtyyler 2018-07-01
It funny because it really boils to eat less, exercise more. That was my diet. My motivation was having a brush with health problems. Anyone will overcome food addiction once they end up in extreme pain due to their weight. When they say it is more complex, it is just "but I dont want to".
1 GenitalGesticulation 2018-07-01
Being one of those obnoxious bacon cultists is still better than 95% of americans who won't eat anything that isn't breaded and fried.
1 MERCYLOVER163 2018-07-01
Mfw I bacon on some niggas 🤔😅👌🏿👌🏿👌🏿 lmaoo
1 Osterion 2018-07-01
True, but ketards are still rly annoying.
1 DoktuhParadox 2018-07-01
I love CB2. They love to make subjects seem super complicated, and as soon as they succeed, pretend like they're all savants of the field. Totally different from the other parts of reddit they critisize.
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
they were taught to do that at university where they studied advanced fart sniffing
1 Lostx22 2018-07-01
A bunch of fat fucks not having the will power to stop shoving there face.
1 miss_jenny_haniver 2018-07-01
/u/onlyonebread
But that is literally a solution. If you do that, you won't have to worry about abortion or STDs.
As you no doubt know, you don't die if you don't have sex. This has downsides (ie, /u/Ed_ButteredToast) but to pretend its not an option is gross and pretty male feministy.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2018-07-01
😴😴😴
1 onlyonebread 2018-07-01
But if your solution doesn't get any actual results then it's a shit solution. Telling people to be abstinent is statistically a horrible and completely ineffective solution to stopping unwanted pregnancy.
1 MasterLawlz 2018-07-01
I mean on paper he's right, if you don't have sex then you won't get pregnant or diseases, it's just that that obviously doesn't work out in real life.
1 onlyonebread 2018-07-01
Which is exactly what my argument is. Of course calories in vs claories out works, but it's useless as a piece of weightloss advice because statistically, telling people to diet properly is as effective as telling people not to have sex.
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
I mean I love food and I lost a ton of weight by simply eating less of the foods I love
it requires discipline but if it worked for me it can work for anyone; it’s nonsense to say it doesn’t get results or can’t work
1 Strich-9 2018-07-01
10/10 argument
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
That entire subreddit should be gassed
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
/u/audreyhornelives
How many scales have you broken?
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
I love how you think being critical of pseudoscientific and unhelpful dietary advice is the same as being unhealthy. You seem like a pathetic and deeply alone little boy
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
I mean, I wouldn't consider myself little, but I guess compared to you anything looks small
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
And we're back to calling me fat based on...???
Yes, I can tell based on your comments.
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
Based on your inability to accept science and how offended you are by people saying less calories = less weight
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
"inability to understand science" = fat?
Let's add math to the list of subject's you're shit at, including logic and reading comprehension.
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
Yes, too much fat on your brain. It's blocking the neural highways from working properly
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
"Neural highways" is not a term that anyone educated in biology or medicine would use. You're looking for neural network".
Also, hilariously, while having a high calorie diet leads to accumulation of fats in peripheral bodily tissues, it is a high fat diet (that a lot of people on keto resort to) that leads to fat accumulation in the brain. (Mühlhäusler 2012)
Try again, dummy. Next time on someone that isn't in medical school.
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/brain-wide-map-of-e2809cneural-highwayse2809d-is-first-of-its-kind/
Oh reary? Tack another 50 pounds on ;)
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
Neural highways is in quotation marks because thats not the technical term you absolute dingus. Congrats on google searching the term you uneducated hick.
I love how committed you are to saying I'm fat as if that will prove your point. Do you have a fetish? Regardless, I'm done wasting my time with you. Enjoy jerking it to Tess Holliday and then guiltily posting on /r/Drama in penance. Hope your mom doesn't hear you through the door!
1 Kumdogmillionaire 2018-07-01
Damn, that fat really stretched you out into having some thin skin! Bye Bertha ;)
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Cico is neither pseudoscience nor dietary advice, it's an overwhelmingly well researched dietary principle that you base the actual diet or dietary advice on. Stop being such a laughably bad stereotype.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
You're right: it's useless advice. Like responding with "spend less" when someone asks you how you managed to buy super expensive car on your salary. Overall correct, but useless when what someone is really asking you is: "did you change what you eat?" "what do you eat?" "do you focus on eating less or working out more?" "do I have to do both or just one?"
Maybe you could not be a stereotype and think about what someone is asking you instead of trying to get out a half-formed insult.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
It's more along the lines of answering "make a budget" to the car question, not just "spend less", and to draw your parallel further, you can't really help anyone make a budget if they refuse to accept that a strict budget is necessary in the first place, and keep complaining that "budgeted spending" is disordered thinking, unhealthy and reductionist, and they keep insisting that practicing "intuitive spending" is the only thing that works.
The vast majority of beginner dieting questions we get in the fitness sub are people just looking for some shortcut or impossibly simple dietary guidelines like "if I just don't eat fastfood I can eat however much I want right", and until they understand that they will see literally zero progress until their intake is less than their expenditure, and that actually monitoring caloric content may be necessary for them to manage that, there is nothing we can do to actually help other than throwing every shitty fad diet at them until one hopefully sticks.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
You can take making a budget to a disordered extreme - see also the frugaljerk stereotype. Some people have a tendency to take good habits to an extreme, and they need to work with a method that doesn't exacerbate that issue.
By and large, the circlebroke thread was focusing on how the conversation about diet on reddit is usually oversimplified to just "eat less" so much so that it's a meme. In reality, it is a very complicated topic. You would get frustrated too if every personal finance thread had "budget" as the only answer. The meme prevents all deeper conversation. And when people call that out, you get this thread in response: any one who acknowledges that weight loss is hard and may require a nuanced approach is a fat fuck.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
My problem with that is that a worryingly large amount of people seem to view just counting calories as that disordered extreme, as opposed to taking calorie counting which in itself is healthy, to a disordered extreme.
Also saying that cico is unhelpfully simplified is a far stretch from calling it pseudoscience. Trying to help people with diets when they refuse to accept that cico is the foundation any successful diet is built upon quickly devolves into a frustrating exercise in futility for both parties involved. And seeing people you care about put in a ton of effort while spinning their wheels because they outright dismiss actually budgeting their calories as even an option is heartbreaking.
Weight loss can be extremely hard, but it is extremely simple as a concept. And if you actually do want to help people be able to reach their weight loss goals you are more than welcome to join us in providing answers in the simple questions thread and new queue in rfitness, rather than yelling contrarianisms into the void in cb2.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
CB2 is only for calling out ridiculous circlejerks on reddit and talking about them. Nothing else. It was you people on this sub that decided it was a profound commentary on fitness as a whole. You aren't helping anyone either here on Drama, where all people do is call others fatties for not falling for the latest fad diet. For a great critique on the keto diet and why I don't think it's the panacea to all your weight troubles, check out the Sawbones episode on the subject by Dr. Sydnee McElroy
1 Jabroni_Avenue 2018-07-01
CB2 is being outraged about reddit circlejerks that that doesn't agree with CB2's beliefs and being a circlejerk sub doesn't give you an escape card from being mocked yourself.
You went from calling CICO "pseudoscience" to "unhelpful advice" after being called out.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
Are you denying the keto cult? The one that extends here?
1 Jabroni_Avenue 2018-07-01
Are you ignoring my actual point? Are you going to call everything pseudoscience because you feel its proponents are cultist?
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
I’m ignoring your “actual points” because you all ignored mine and the context it came from, choosing instead to call me fat and uneducated.
I do not respond to bad faith arguments like an academic debate. The arguments that use proponents to advocate for keto are mostly pseudoscience. But that’s ok, you can call me fat and it’ll all be fine :)
1 Jabroni_Avenue 2018-07-01
Your very first reply to the broken scales insult was "Sorry I don't believe in pseudoscience".
Regardless of the insult unless said user actually mentioned any dietary methods that are actual pseudoscience or espoused many of the misunderstandings about Keto, I am considering the topic of discussion to be still Keto In general.
Unless the the user who called you fat is the same user who seriously and politely engaged you, It isn't an argument in bad faith.
It's funny actually you whine about people calling you fat which is based on the generalizations of CB2 users while at the same time call users who engaged you honestly and intelligently as people arguing in bad faith and call them cultists.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
This all came from a CB2 thread, that was in response to another thread on reddit.
There are people up and down this thread calling me fat. See also: the title of this thread. I do not believe that anyone in this thread wants to engage honestly, especially after you resort to insults within a couple minutes of me not capitulating.
Lastly: I am critical of the keto diet because it's proponents use pseudoscience to justify it's effectiveness. Sure, it can work generally but no better than literally any other diet out there. It is not magic. There are very real health consequences to it, including gout and cholesterol abnormalities. If it helps you understand it better, it's the same as the crossfit craze. Sure, working out is good for you but there are dangers based in how hard you're injuring your joints and lack of focus on form. Finally, I am critical about "calories in calories out" because it is a meme on reddit and actually losing weight is complicated and hard. Oversimplifying the choices you have to make does not help people who really need it.
1 69TEKASHI6IX9INE69 2018-07-01
The reddit circlejerk is far more accurate than the self admitted CB2 whiningjerk that misrepresents and lies about data. Keto isn't at all ideal but it's far more preferable than the shit diets that most overweight people have.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
You people? I havent called you fat a single time, and I haven't even mentioned keto.
Also don't give me shit about not helping people when I'm posting here, 99% of my post history is in /r/fitness.
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
“put down the fork” is hardly useless advice in a world where there’s a multibillion dollar industry trying to convince you that weight loss requires doctorates in nutrition and exercise
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
“physics is pseudoscience”
how much did your parents pay for your vanity degree in postmodernism
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
It’s so funny what your stereotypes are and how little you take in evidence that contradicts them. I’m a medical student.
Clearly you don’t know how to extrapolate from data, nor have you read the other thread. Most of the bro science justifying keto isn’t based in actual fact.
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
and I was a physics student
I’ll wager whatever they’re teaching in med school these days against conservation of energy, all day every day
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
Don't misrepresent what I said: I said CICO is reductionist and unhelpful, not incorrect.
And even I know that conservation of energy does not apply in an open system like the human body, as we exchange matter and energy with the environment around us (food, waste, etc.)
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
if the environment could provide nourishment it would be impossible to starve
and I think it’s incredibly helpful to inform people of the truth when it comes to weight loss, namely that you can ignore the endless marketing from the multibillion dollar weight loss industry, and simply reduce your intake
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Humans don't really exchange matter and energy with the environment in any significant way other than energy in (food) energy out (BMR + thermic effect of food + activity + to a very small degree excrement), the human body makes no meaningful use of energy absorbed through i.e heat or radiation in metabolic processes, same for the energy out part, the heat and waste we expel are all part of metabolic processes that are factored in to BMR and TDEE. The calculations aren't accurate to several decimals worth of precision, but once you have a measured intake + measured change in weight, you can narrow the estimation down to be more accurate than you would ever need for weight loss/gain or dietary purposes, the small unknowns and fluctuations left are wholly insignificant.
Also both my parents are surgeons and I've discussed these problems with them at length through my own training and dietary plans, and I know for a fact no self respecting medical school is teaching any differently.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
Fun to know that "discussing at length" is the same as 4 years of undergrad + 4 years of medical school + residency! Congrats on your honorary MD!
My medical school would be thrilled to know that I understand how diseases like Cushing's and PCOS, and medications like antidepressants and antipsychotics lead to weight gain and alter metabolism!
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
So outside of your insults, you are trying to tell me that medical school taught you that the human body works more akin to an open system where you have to account for energy absorbed through external heat and work, and that it expels meaningful amounts of mass and energy outside of metabolic processes that makes bmr and tdee calculations coupled with measured weight change wrong and inaccurate?
Also I'll be delighted to tell my parents someone fresh out of residency told them their combined 70 years of medical experience is wrong, I know thats their favourite thing to hear.
What medical school was this and what specialty did you study?
Also no one is denying that diseases and medication can alter metabolic processes, stop moving the goal posts.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
Your purposeful misunderstanding of what I'm saying is truly tragic. I am saying that losing weight is complicated, and that the "black box" of your metabolism is not the same as anyone elses and therefore saying "eat less" is reductionist. Also keto is not a magic diet.
Best wishes to your mommy and daddy on their idiot son, and I'm truly sorry he's swinging around their MDs like it matters online
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Quit fucking deflecting. Also "idiot son", "swinging around their MDs like it matters", are you wholly fucking incapable of arguing a single point without resulting to childish insults like some basement dwelling teenager.
You tried arguing a point that directly contradicts basically all of the scientific literature on the subject, and that directly contradicts what I've been repeatedly told by two people I have a very close relationship with, who can be seen as authorities on the subject, of course I'm going to bring that up. You even tried to bring up "attended medical school" as a fucking position of authority.
Did you also learn to act like such a socially inept and scientifically illiterate asshole in medical school?
Have you even finished medical school?
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
This is fucking hilarious that you expect me to respect your points while you repeatedly attack my education, weight, etc. I could not give fewer fucks what relationships you have with physicians, you cannot use their degrees as your own. You were the type of person we laughed our asses off at: an overprivelged kid of physicians who thinks that gives them some sort of authority or insight into the world. YOU refuse to see the points I'm making and even examine them critically. YOU are the one oversimplifying a complicated topic and not addressing the issues at hand and have zero critical thinking skills. I'm done debating a child who is sitting at home and redirecting their self-loathing towards fat people.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
I havent attacked your weight a single fucking time you mongoloid, which I also pointed out to you the last time you tried to accuse me of it. The persecution complex you have regarding weight is fucking ridicolous. I haven't once used anyones degrees as my own, I pointed out that your argument contradict what they argue, and I specified that they were the ones saying it, not once did I pretend I had a medical degree or that I am an authority on the subject.
Jesus christ, and you are exactly the type of student we laugh our asses of at every dinner I have with them and their colleagues, some kid in premed who immediately runs out into the world and pretends they are a medical authority.
The issue at hand is that you "a medical student" argues that cico is "oversimplified and unhelpful dietary advice" when no one have ever used it as such in any serious capacity, and your main gripe with the overwhelmingly scientifically backed concept of calorie expenditure is that "reddit circlejerks it too much", and for some reason you keep throwing insults at me for "attacking your weight" which i again haven't done a single time, and keep brining up "but keto" as some sort of gotcha, even though I havent mentioned keto once.
Just throwing impotent insults at me for hours isn't a fucking debate, and I haven't said a single negative thing about fat people at all. Grow up.
1 audreyhornelives 2018-07-01
We're done here, racist.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
https://i.imgur.com/EmkfMSs.gif
1 Wimzer 2018-07-01
You sound fat tbh.
1 Strich-9 2018-07-01
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/man-accused-of-driving-into-crowd-at-unite-the-right-rally-charged-with-federal-hate-crimes/2018/06/27/09cdce3a-7a20-11e8-80be-6d32e182a3bc_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4126afe3fe83
1 freet0 2018-07-01
Every time. There's always someone who thinks dieting effectively is an eating disorder because it's just so inconceivable to them.
1 vikingmechanic 2018-07-01
Making a well balanced economical budget and following it = being a well functioning and responsible adult.
Making a well balanced dietary budget and following it = REEEEE disordered eating, reductionist, hormones.
1 69TEKASHI6IX9INE69 2018-07-01
"You didn't provide a complete year long dietary plan and a graduate level explanation of the human metabolism? Fucking reductionist assholes REEEEEE!"
1 Jimbo_B_Beterson 2018-07-01
redundant title
1 Orsonius 2018-07-01
my SSRI (and my perpetual bad diet) made me gain weight over the past years, 15kg. I was shocked.
While I was always super skinny, and still am, I developed a little man belly and had a hard time fitting in some of my pants.
Now I literally just eat less and already lost weight and my belly isn't as big anymore.
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2018-07-01
calling bullshit on this because CB2 says that’s impossible and they gave way more degrees than you
1 69TEKASHI6IX9INE69 2018-07-01
The bad analogies and misrepresented studies hamplanets use in their crusade against CICO is just shameful. Admitting to being a committed lardass is better, because at least it means you're not retarded.