Controversial opinions on “Great Books” and authors :marseychudnotes:

!bookworms !classics

What are your hot takes on some of “The Great Books”, those considered part of the Western Canon. I'm not limiting it to the Enciclopedia Britannica volumes, you can talk about any of the renowned works on 19th and 20th century literature.

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MOST "GREAT" NOVELS I'VE READ HAVE BEEN PRETTY SHIT. ALMOST ALL OF THEM ARE JUST BLOATED ALLEGORIES OF SOME BASIC MORAL LIKE:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1717697950178732.webp

"VIOLENCE IS UNPLEASANT."

THEY'RE RARELY BETTER THAN THE TRASH NOVELS I READ FOR fun...

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Take the magical realism pill

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"Magical realism" is pretentious.

Take the shallow poorly translated chinese power fantasy pill.

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Magical Realism is such a joy to read. I have read Calvino so many times, Invisible Cities is such a comfy book.

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I don't think I've ever read a "great book" or a "classic" that I didn't think was fricking terrible.

I guess 1984 was decent enough if you take it as a dry political treatise instead of like, a story one might enjoy.

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read dom quixote :marseysalendofherstory:

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I would, but I don't want to.

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I want to, but I won't (I'm r-slurred)

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:@dramasexualpat:

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It's an easy read, and it's pretty funny especially for such an old book.

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Worst of the worst. Literally unreadable

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:#marseyl:

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1984 is Orwell's worst story, most of his works are kinda mid to bad and the only reason they are popular is because it was one of the few things highschool teachers in the 90s were able to have their class read. If you liked Orwell's prose try Shooting an Elephant if you haven't, its a short story but I think its one of his only good pieces. As an aside, what other classics have you read? I'm not trying to bait you or anything, just curious what you have read and why you disliked them. I will agree a lot of the classics suck, especially the early modern English classics, but there are a lot of good ones, especially from American and Japan.

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The difference between a classic novel and slop isn't the message, characters, or even the story; it's just the prose.

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:marseyretardchad:

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17176979029351063.webp

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cringe

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Even Hegel himself didn't know what a 'dialectic' actually was

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/1717746821726715.webp

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:#marseyretardchad:

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Reading Hemingway made me understand why he put a shotgun in his mouth.

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I read The Old Man and the Sea, it was decent but forgettable

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Funny. That was the book that made me cheer for the shotgun.

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Only one of his that was any good, the others were all worse.

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also like 100 pages lol

:marseyneet:

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Papa taught me to smash puss.

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“Infinite Jest” - for all of the blathering I've seen on how DFW is such a powerful fiction writer and le edgy suicide etc etc everyone misses the point about how IJ is hands down one of the most harrowing depictions of addiction and abuse of all time, and it should absolutely make you treat the addictions in your life with the awful respect they deserve.

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LOTR is mid if that counts. Nietzsche is also le bad, a philosophy can be ascertained by the quality of its followers, and Nietzscheans haven't done anything notable so he is overrated.

Marx is the complete opposite of Nietzsche and is truly great in the quality of its most important followers.

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i have no opinion on your opinion :marseynpcsheep:

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What's your literary hot take?

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Upmarseyd for controversial but I respectfully disagree on LOTR.

As for Nietzche and Marx I'm gonna be honest, I'm not fond of philosophy books in general (probably my hot take lol) and I won't even comment on these guys ideologies.

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LOTR is Das Kapital for rightoids so I understand how you feel

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Except LOTR is entertaining :#marseythegrey:

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I mean it is the foundational text for modern right-wing thought

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Man, it's just a fantasy novel not a political treatise. Tolkien was an Anglo-Saxon history neurodivergent and he wanted to create an epic out of old Germanic myths. Then it also deals with themes like friendship, the nature of good and evil, courage. I think the only political point in those novels is his critique of industrialization.

!bookworms

!neolibs what's our foundational novel?

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Don't 8 the b8, m8s.

Tolkien scolded the Nazis for ruining Nordic mythology into their weird shit, and @Communist_spez knows this.

!anticommunists !grillers

Keep calm and grill on.

P.S. Tom Bombadil is an awful character, fight me.

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Even Tolkien thinks Tom Bombadil is a bad character.

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That's why he asked him not to be in his movies. Facts.

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Tom Bombadil is an awful character

Coming soon to streaming near u

:#marseyderp:

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The actual neoliberal foundational text would be some twink Keynes thing.

The foundational text of internet meme !neolibs would be Capital in the Twenty-First Century

Dune is good too. (It's about worms.)

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Capital in the Twenty-First Century

There's nothing neoliberal about that book. It's a turbo succ manifesto

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Ah, I see you're a fellow Dune enjoyer. :marseycheers:

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is prob why nations fail lets be honest

dune is about worms

i know what you are and i will find you on the sister site

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Why Nations Fail

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I've never read but the core thesis seems really contrived and ad-hoc.

>Latin America was roughly on par with Spain economically until the mid 1900s

>Different colonial nations have vastly different amounts of colonization (500 years for some parts of Morocco, 40 in others, 130 years for Algeria, 75 for Tunisia, 0-74 years for Egypt depending on definition, 11 years or so for Iraq, Turkey did the colonizing etc) but they always end up with similar problems to their neighbors. Did the mayos just destroy the good institutions in whole immediately when they show up???

>Colonialism looked a lot different between and within nations, often relying on existing institutions for support, but again the same issue shows up here and there

>The United States had absolutely incredibly corrupt institutions in the 1800s

I wonder how he accounts for these. There's probably a good amount of truth to it tho and it's better than Jared Diamonds "ummm..... Europe and North America look kind of, um, long on a map...while Africa is tall.....hmmmmm maybe this is it..."

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The book's admittedly simplistic core thesis is that there are essentially two types of institutions: inclusive and extractive. Inclusive institutions are things like democratic government, freedom of expression, and market based economies. The idea being that the more people you have voluntarily participating in the institution, the better off the society is. More buy in and reward, the better off that society is. Take the US, it has its problems, but the institutions there evolved there because they existed to an extent in Great Britain. They also didn't have a resource like gold or silver, or an easily enslaveable native population to do what the Spanish did. As for corruption in the US, it's by the expansion of the franchise, the growing middle classes, and America's favorite past time: litigation.

Extractive institutions are set up to extract resources from a population to enrich a few. These are things like totalitarian government, slavery, colonialism in the broad sense. To the point of South America, India, and Africa. Those colonies were never set up to be self governing, they were set up with the explicit intent of extracting resources. So when the Brits/French/Spanish left, there was a massive power vacuum. To say it's only Whitey's fault is r-slurred though. People are people, the Ottomans were a perfect example of that, the kingdoms in Africa were the same thing. During the slave trade the things the African kings wanted most were guns and gunpowder so they could kill their neighbors. It's why a dictatorship is stable for about 40 years, until the dictator dies.

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Their conclusions were extremely simplistic though, and their Roman Empire chapter was bad @johannesalthusius

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17177007292345357.webp

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It's definitely not an end all be all, but does offer a pretty compelling case, certainly in the modern era. By and large, stable and vigorous institutions are absolutely necessary for a prosperous country. Or anything really.

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honestly that critique is probably the weakest part of the book, I try to forget about it :marseycringe:

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Sounds like facism for me

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Art of the deal

long live the ccp

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!anticommunists, look at how r-slurred our local leftoid is.

:marseyemojirofl:

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zoz

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zle

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zozzle

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LOTR is a fun and good book but it is not well written or engaging in a intellectual way. If you are just reading for entertainment, which is fine, then its a great fantasy book.

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I almost fell for this bait, but you made it too r-slurred.

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What?

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Trying to convince me that you are r-slurred isn't going to fix it.

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Okay

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you are an idealist cute twink, judging a philosophy by its followers is an incredibly r-slurred idea. 10/10 bait tbh.

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Nietzscheans will never have a Lenin or a Stalin because their philosophy is weak

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You're going to look so stupid when the übermensch comes. :marseyindignant:

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I hope not, and the strength of a man's philosophy does not determine the strength of a man. Also great man theories are antimarxist.

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@RemindMeBot 3 hours

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I will be messaging you on 06.06.2024, 20:56 UTC to remind you of this comment

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Do you need lube? :marseydramautist:

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nope :#marseyautismdisconcerting:

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Marx was a smelly neet and crank whose work is outperformed in sophistication, preditctive ability, and literary quality by the Unabomber's manifesto

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Nietzscheans haven't done anything notable so he is overrated.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17177137573662548.webp

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Doesn't that imply any philosophy you follow is garbage?

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Nietzscheans haven't done anything notable

Isn't killing 70 million people notable enough?

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LOTR is literally a childrens book. of course it's bad.

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Ur mid

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