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  • Pavement : Brandon Sanderson did an acceptable job, god darn it

Amazon's "Wheel of Time" adaptation is the worst thing ever commit to film

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Good morning and thank you for clicking my longpost about a swordshit show allegedly based on a work I've been reading, rereading, analyzing and discussing since the late 90s! I'm not going to waste time with more than a quick preamble for the uninitiated, so buckle up. Things are about to get very soy very quickly.

In 1990, a decorated Vietnam veteran (Distinguished Flying Cross with oak leaf cluster, the Bronze Star with “V”, two Vietnamese Crosses of Gallantry with Palm) named James Oliver Rigney (pen name Robert Jordan) published the first book in what would turn out to be the longest narrative written in the English language of all time. This was The Eye of the World in the Wheel of Time saga. At 4,400,000 million words and 2,782 named characters over the course of 14 main books and one prequel, WoT is far and away the most intricate story ever told. The author died in 2007, and the final three books were ultimately finished (fairly poorly) in 2012 by Brandon Sanderson, with the consent of Jordan's wife and editor, Harriet. In 2018, Amazon bought the rights to the work for a television adaptation, intending to capitalize on Game of Thrones' success. Three years later, we now have the first season, with a staggering $10,000,000-per-episode budget. And it is far and away the worst thing ever commit to film, including actual snuff films.

The end result is not an adaptation in any sense of the word; the only similarities Rafe Judkins' Wheel of Time bears to the books on which it is based are some of the names. It tells an entirely different story, about entirely different people, doing entirely different things for entirely different reasons. A film about an immigrant named Jesus buying a motorcycle and joining the Hells Angels is closer to an adaptation of the Bible than this is to an adaptation of Wheel of Time, and this is in no way hyperbolic.

:star: Here's where the intro ends and I start prattling on about things specific to the work itself, that's all the context you get :star:

The (filmed) series opens with a voiceover inexplicably by Moiraine, and wastes absolutely no time in preemptively retconning some of the foundational principles of the series. Lews Therin might be reborn as a woman. Which can't happen, and Aes Sedai of all people should know this, and that isn't even touching on the saidin/saidar mess this would lead to. But showrunner Rafe Judkins and his crew spent the last few years on Twitter openly disparaging the source material and repeatedly expressing desires to dismantle it and tell an entirely unrelated story as a vehicle to push tired identity politics. And Moiraine has somehow heard rumors of four ta'veren in BFE Two Rivers. How does that work? Since when is Egwene ta'veren? Who is spreading these rumors? What do they entail? What indication is there that there are ta'veren in the Two Rivers? How did these rumors get out when the place is lucky to see a peddler or two pass through every year? There are no answers!

So that's what we start with. By the four minute mark, Liandrin & co have already summarily gentled a random male channeler - a massive no-no by Tar Valon standards, something which is repeatedly hammered home by Thom and Moiraine's seething about Owyn. Moiraine and Lan casually watch this literal, actual, significant crime, make a quip about it, and leave. But not before we're treated to Liandrin invalidating even more of the lore as she explains to the poor sap before gentling him that saidin was tainted by "filthy men" (this is a quote) touching it, even though everyone - Aes Sedai of all people - know that the taint was Shai'tan's counterstroke to the Hundred Companions. So from this scene alone, we're hit with a few possibilities:

  1. Liandrin lied, meaning she's Black Ajah. Which she is, of course, but the viewer doesn't know that. Neither does Moiraine. And Black Ajah cells are three people, and she has a much larger posse than three, so the possibility of all those Reds being Black is out. Moiraine also doesn't react to this lie, so it's presumably off the table.

  2. Saidin really was tainted by filthy m*n touching it in Rafe's fatherless childization of the work, which retcons absolutely everything about the world.

  3. Most likely, it's just garbage writing to illustrate that Liandrin (and Reds) hate men and male channelers, and the writers don't give a shit about the Three Oaths except when it's necessary to for the threadbare plot.

And then after this completely unnecessary scene and subsequent traveling montage, we arrive in the Two Rivers. Egwene (who is now Indian) gets to braid her hair! Which is now apparently just for members of the Women's Circle. Which is now some New Age hippie hyperfeminist ritualistic woo cult thing, because the viewer is treated to a bizarre ceremony on a rock overlooking a river, which Egwene is senselessly pushed into as part of...a test? initiation? hazing? it's not explained, but she's told to float down the river and then that's the sum of the explanation and the last time any of this is referenced or relevant.

Some observations about Two Rivers characters in no particular order:

  • Everyone's favorite softboi Perrin is married now (and black!), to an imaginary character named Laila. She's a strong blacksmith. He proceeds to kill her with axe on Winternight.

  • Mat, the incredibly selfless and good-natured rogue, is now a shameless thief. He steals some girl's bracelet and sells it to Fain (who is now black - and British - as well).

  • Rand and Egwene are a thing now. And they're very openly banging. Two Rivers customs and culture and propriety no longer exists, because any society that normalizes intercourse within a marriage is problematic.

  • Nynaeve (now extremely black) scrubs a sacred rock. Why is it sacred? Why is she scrubbing it? Why is it in a cave? Stop asking questions, they don't have answers.

  • The extremely respectable and respected Abell Cauthon is now a domestic abusing drunkard who his wife and children are terrified of.

  • The Mountains of Mist are now in someone's back yard, and Rand goes to brood there after nailing Egwene again, and talk about his deep, CW-tier thoughts, which he says he does a lot. Gone is the innocent, naïve sheepherder and dedicated son.

During a series of unremarkable scenes in and around the Winespring Inn, we're treated to a huge number of absolutely shameless shots of people of every race and ethnicity under the sun - the Two Rivers is no longer an isolated, podunk village in the bum end of nowhere. Rand being visibly different than everyone else was a major narrative aspect of the books, but now everyone is different. There's a huge number of blacks, Indians, latinx, Asians, Pacific Islanders - you name it, the Two Rivers has it. No one even bats an eye at Moiraine and Lan's arrival aside from the rudeness of it. Fain showing up is ignored by everyone but a few kids, and Mat who needs to unload his stolen jewelry.

It's pretty hard to frick up Winternight. Like that's one of the most memorable scenes in the entire series - it's powerful, it's tense, it's gripping, it's definitive, and it's very plainly laid out what happens. Instead, Rafe Judkins treats us to a Winternight that isn't about Rand's desperate, terrified flight back to the village with his mortally wounded father. There are no worldshaking maybe-revelations-maybe-fever-dreams about his ancestry. There hadn't even been a Myrddraal that anyone saw. Rand and Tam are just eating dinner when a Trolloc knocks the door down. Tam gets out his heron mark blade (also looking exactly nothing like it was painstakingly described) and proceeds to get his bum handed to him by a single Trolloc. Rand saves him by stabbing it in the back, and then we're back to town!

The attack on the village consists briefly of Mat running away, some randoms dying, Daise Congar and a heap of other farm women taunting Trollocs (who don't even bother to fight back) and then having no problem at all handling them, because they're strong women. Moiraine seems gimped as heck and relies on throwing rocks at the invaders. At one point she destroys the Winespring Inn for more rocks. Completely levels the building. Oh, Egwene and Nynaeve use little DIY melee weapons to take down some Trollocs too, but Nynaeve gets kidnapped.

And then it's done.

You've likely noticed that I forgot to mention Thom through all of this. I actually didn't! Thom isn't there! He doesn't appear until the third episode. And he doesn't have a flute and harp anymore, he has a guitar. And he's much younger. And his giant mustaches are gone. Did I mention he has a guitar? Because Thom has a guitar now. But we're still on episode 1, 3 comes later.

CONTINUED IN PINNED COMMENT


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Right after you talked about writing this, I sat down with the husband and watched the show. He did not read all of the books, but was a fan of the ones he did read. He said that they were very info dense and as the next book came out, you'd have to go back and read the first because you had forgotten a lot because there was so much detail in the books. So, he's not an uberfan like you. I haven't read the books at all. Despite that, after watching the shows I completely understand your complaints. The show is okay and meh, but very derivative of everything else and the forced diversity is chuckle worthy. Neither me nor my husband are ones to get riled up over the current casting choices, but we had a chuckle at one point where I was saying, "Do we have nearly every race represented in this scene?" It almost satirized itself because that's just not how things work. If people are concentrated alone in one area for many many many many generations, they eventually blend together. This was filmed in Croatia. If you go to a small town in Croatia, it's not going to look like Times Square. I get that it's fantasy, but at some point these things become absurdities. From what I understand, the books are a tour de force...the series definitely is not.

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If only you could put that energy into your relationships

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SNAPPY SHE SAID SHE WAS WATCHING THE SHOW WITH HER HUSBAND WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

:trans: TRANS LIVES MATTER :trans:

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The forced diversity was so fricking distracting that I stopped after the first episode. It just made no sense that this isolated town had every nationality you could think of. Wouldn't they long ago have bred into a light shade of brown? Some stories can use different races existing in different areas in an interesting way to explore racism etc. This was not that. It just seemed like it was checking diversity boxes as part of an uber SJW producer's checklist.

Completely ruined my immersion.


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Wouldn't they long ago have bred into a light shade of brown?

Almost verbatim what my husband said.

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They could have fixed it with a simple line like, "our town is a safe haven for people from all across the land" or something and it would make sense. But they intentionally went out of their way to point out that this little town had very little contact with other peoples.

2/10 first episode. The Trollocs looked dumb too.


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In 1990 I had a gf named Erin. We were 14 and had been dating for a few months and Erin knowing I liked to read went to our local bookstore and asked them for a good book to give me as a random act of foid kindness. This was 1990. They told her Eye of the world was the big popular new book so she got it for me and gave it along with a few other foid specific things they like to give as gifts. Erin and I broke up like 4 months later. I was over Erin. However I wasn't over with my new found love for the wheel of time series. I eagerly awaited each book. I read and reread them through college and well into my adult life. In 1997 they announced the wheel of time fanclub. It was advertised on MTV all the time. I immediately joined it and received the encyclopedias and mugs and other shit they used to send out along with the newest released books in the series. This was my starshit and my capeshit. When Robert Jordan died I was very upset. I saw it coming because the updates he would give on dragonmount.net had become fewer and fewer. I didn't cry I was just worried that the story would go unfinished. Then they announced who would be finishing it for him and Brandon Sanderson was extremely respectful of the source material. I still didn't finish the series for years after it was done. Matter of fact I sat down and read the whole series from start to finish just last year during the lockdowns. I had put it off long enough. To say I'm seething about this show is an understatement.

I'm fricking RAGING. the opening shitty narration destroys everything the 1st book is about. It explains everything in terrible dialogue. There is no mystery or world building it's just boom info dump. They could have easily adapted the 1st book almost chapter by chapter and still have been extremely faithful and eased the audience into the setting and world just like Jordan did. They however decided to not do that and did something completely different and wrong. They made drastic and dark and gritty changes to characters for no reason. This isn't game of thrones. This is an adult story told with class that didn't need all the modern dark shit they added to the characters. This isn't an adaption even. It's like someone told the writers a vague outline of the whole series and they went from there. It's barely the same story. The stunt casting could be overlooked. The absolute butchering of the source material can't. I turned it off after 15 minutes and I won't ever watch a second more. This show has ruined the book series because so many people that hadn't read it won't now because of how terrible this show is. Everyone involved in this has tainted the legacy of WoT just like Shaitan tainted the source of the one power. Shame on Amazon. End of fricking raging seething spergout.

Play me out longpost bot.

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Ok boomer

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I had a gf named Erin.

...

We were 14

Normiecels OUT OUT OUT

Also keep seething about your boomer capeshit lmao.

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Don't you unironically love all starshit?

Also it's swordshit not capeshit. At least get your soy terms right.

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In my defense I only like the originals and the Clone wars show I watched incessantly as a child.

Oh and also Rogue one was pretty cool to be honest, and there was this one expanded universe novel...

...frick. I am a spaceshit nerd but my capeshit is still more mainstream than your capeshit, NERD. :na: :marseyseethe:

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Imagine bragging about being more npc than others... Shameful.

Also did you see where the rogue squadron movie series is dead in the water?

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Technically Rogue squadron was just delayed. I think It's still supposed to go into production at some point but yeah Its probably fricked. God that game was fun, even though I only played it cause it was one of the only SW games I could run on my dads shitty PC that he got the year I was born and never replaced. Good times

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i've had most (all? i don't even remember anymore.) of the series on my shelf for a very long time. carp has been hasslin' me about it and constantly talking about how great it is for even longer.

every time i open that first book to read it i want to die because it's so slow and boring and nothing happens. i've read those first couple chapters (or so) like 8 times over the years and never make it past that. maybe if i read even a single extra page something would happen but...yeah. nothing about the opening of eye of the world makes me want to continue reading it.

one day i'll try again. i'll probably also give up on it again.

i was sort of hoping the show was like the book. so i could watch an episode or two and maybe it would "click". fantasy stuff isn't at the top of my book list. after that first episode of game of thrones i got all of those books (that had been released at the time) and finished them before the first season was done. i was half expecting that to happen again but now it seems like the show is just WoT in name and nothing else. sad.

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I've known more coherent downies.

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no you haven't.

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WoT is above all else, an immense character study and the literal apex of worldbuilding. A ton happens, and we get a globespanning adventure with thousands of characters and extremely fleshed out, incredibly real-feeling cultures with histories and traditions and races and economies and everything. But at its core, what makes it such a monumental work is the depth of world and the development the characters. The show isn’t concerned with any of that.


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you describe it like i'd have to keep a notebook handy to remember everything.

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It's like a 4th grade reading level at best ignore these brainlets

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So read Gravity's Rainbow 🌈


:!marseybarrel: :marseybarreldrunk:

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Sorry I'm homophobic

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This is true. That or one has to have a very exceptional memory to keep track of everything going on.

Also, as a writer, Mr. Rigney was a master of subtlety while at same time their being plenty repeated tropes and he was notorious for describing scenes or circumstances in super deep detail.

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Spanking and braid tugging, there, I boiled it down to the essentials you're welcome

If you want something good to read I suggest The Sword of Truth

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But stop at the end of the first book, which is fantastic. Is goes way downhill from there. The fricking book about him carving the statue was one of the most boring things I've ever read. I get it Terry, communism sucks. You don't need another 50 fricking pages of RIchard bitching about it, Jesus Christ.

That first book is so good though


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Dude if you can get over the initial slow pace to ease you into it all you'll love it. Just know you'll always be treated to 5 paragraphs describing an overcoat and 2 pages about the carvings on a chair one of the characters is sitting in.

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george arg arg martin would spend hundreds of words describing food. it's like these guys put overly long descriptions of irrelevant/meaningless stuff just to pad out the length of the book.

or maybe grrm is just a fatty and once he starts writing about food he's unable to stop.

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I saw Robert Jordan 3 times at book signings. I've seen Grrm twice. They were about the same size.

Robert Jordan had to use a cane to walk.

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I met him one time at a cafe in downtown Charleston. It was coincidental, the one and only time I've ever been to Charleston, SC I was there with a then girlfriend for a yoga "conference" lol.

I didn't care to meet Tim Miller at the moment, only later so I was just roaming around downtown and stopped at the this cafe and he was there I recognized him from the jacket covers and knowing he lived in the area. It was a fairly short and simple conversation, but nice to say it happened.

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All I did was tell him thank you for writing the books at the signings...

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Some people are able to display their intelligence by going on at length on a subject and never actually saying anything. This ability is most common in trades such as politics, public relations, and law. You have impressed me by being able to best them all, while still coming off as an absolute idiot.

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If Hollywood can't r*pe you as a child, they'll instead r*pe your childhood memories.

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Ok.

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I have never heard of Wheel of Time, ever, but watched episode one literally 5 minutes before seeing this ridiculously long seethe post.

My take - it was watchable but terribly cliché. Child of prophecy story, big powerful character realizes she needs to enlist the aide of unlikely child heroes, Mr Evil in a black cape leading an army of ridiculously cliche horned and hairy pig-orcs.

And of course it has to have “muh powerful womyn” in it. Honestly the only interesting character at of all of them was the Asian guardian.

The magic effects were cool. But I’ve seen this story a hundred times already. Oh and of course all the main characters are black now.

Well I’m going to go rewatch the extended editions of LOTR again before Amazon butchers those next.


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That's just it: the show has little to nothing to do with the source material. Its like someone told a 5 minute summary of the entire series to a child and the child told it to the writers.

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I wish someone would take on the Dark Tower series. That never should have been made as a standalone movie.

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Both my mom and my sister were super fans of that series in the books. They tried to explain it to me but it never made any sense.


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I don't think I could every properly explain it myself and do it any justice. Especially since it's been a few years since I've read it. But, it was a fun adventure that I really enjoyed. Not crazy about the end, but that's to be expected by Stephen King. I do like the epilogue though if that makes any sense.

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I know it's divisive, but I loved the ending. I thought it followed the themes of the story perfectly


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I've been meaning to reread the series so maybe I'll feel different about it a second time around. Especially since I'm at a different stage in my life and old things tend to take on new meanings with age

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I never ended up finishing it, but I read the first four books and they were very enjoyable

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The movie was supposed to lead into a series on HBO but boy they sure fricked all that up.

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Seriously lol? Good grief, fricking imbeciles.

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Heck Ron Howard was attached to it at one point and I think his company spent something like 50 million on preproduction for the movie and tv show.

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A large amount of the story isn't super unique, Prophecy shit has been around since the greeks. The world building and character interactions are the interesting part. Its some hardcore level of autism shit planning for the world which is the interesting part.

The powerful womyn are great because it causes great cope in menwritingwomen because they don't wordswordswords about their vaginas or the erections their little girl panties give them.

I am not surprised they butchered it because the best part is the authors words words words about some details that would take hours to explain out loud that is less aids to read.

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:#marseycarpautism::#marseymanysuchcases:

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I’m not reading that, I’m sorry that happened etc

That being said I know the Wheel of Time books are much loved, and all the reviews I’ve read say the show is an incoherent mess - not sure how you can take such deep source material and spend $10 million an episode to make something completely unwatchable, but Amazon found a way

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Hey Carp thanks for the pizzashill award. Now I get to test it out here😎

I would like to watch a film about the immigrant called Jesus who somehow ascended to the Heck's Angels Motorcycle Club, even though the Angels generally don't recruit many non-mayo members. Sounds like the best thing to happen to them since Hunter S. Thompson joined, hehe I liked that guy. I would've read some of his books by now if I were literate.

Speaking of, I haven't read the rest of your review, which is probably good but I'm just not going to get it if I've never read the books. I'm just going to assume they race and gender swapped many of the main characters in the series for the Netflix adaptation and put no effort into actually keeping the story consistent or making it good. Real sad how all of the actual efforts for these things only goes towards addressing the mayo problem at the expense of good writing or cinematography, smh.

Anyway I'm over my wordcount now and I'm going to go back to looking at memes online (I like the ones with the pictures and no words).

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This is one of the worst posts I have EVER seen. Delete it.

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I heard the main reason why Heck’s Angels are mostly mayo is because non-mayos usually don’t seek membership rather than being actively declined.

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why did you feel the need to pin this carp

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I was hoping it would impress you :blush:


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you're too kind carp

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