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lain yaml/toml If you’re not remembered, then you never existed. :marseylain:  8mo ago (image post) 415 thread views #222488

how great is our God!

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Follower of Christ :marseyandjesus: Tech lover, IT Admin, heckin pupper lover and occasionally troll. I hold back feelings or opinions, right or wrong because I dislike conflict.

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If God is all powerful, who was he sacrificing his only son to to forgive us of our sins?

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Himself, because He is all-powerful and His will is immutable across time. The debt needed to be paid in blood.

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Wouldn't god himself control or be able to change the rules about how debts are repaid? If I loan you a dollar that you cant pay back, I can forgive the debt of my own accord with no action needed. I don't have to chop one of my own fingers off to forgive your debt to me

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As far as my religious schooling gets me, God isn't like man who changes over time, who regrets or later comes to different judgements. The way I was taught, His will exists independently of time, it always has been and always will be. He does not learn because He is all-knowing, and what we on Earth might see as change in His will is actually it unfolding in ways alien to us, developing and maturing in His grand design. And so, when time suited His will, He revealed that the debt of sin could be paid with Christ's blood if you accepted Jesus's sacrifice.

The immutable will of God is a principle of Christianity that makes navigating Christian lore complicated but it's also a bit of a lighthouse, guiding us through it. !christians please tell me if my schooling is too obviously r-slurred/heretical

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It doesn't have to change, it could have been defined to make sense from the "start" whatever that means. Saying we can't possibly understand God's will is a total cop out I feel like as well. Would God have to take our interpretation of his will into account?

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It does make sense though? The only thing that doesn't make sense is your argument.

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Explain how. Show in my example whats wrong

No circular arguments about how it's right cause God said it and God said it cause it's right

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I did just that in the other comment. :marseysmughips:

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Kind of. You can grab god, put him in a nice box and become a calvinist :marseythumbsup:

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Shit I forgot to actually answer the question. I think sacrificing Christ was the answer because that's what accommodated every truth before, of the wages of sin. And God is never, EVER wrong.

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That's an entirely fair question and there isn't an easy answer. The best explanation I have is that it communicates the severe importance of sin. Simply choosing to let bygones be bygones would project that sin was meaningless. Regardless of how the debt is paid, God always sees sin as deathly serious. And so we remember the terrible suffering of Christ as we struggle with sin, instead of being able to say "oh it doesn't matter, God always forgives us!"

Most Christian lore makes more sense when you consider what things "mean" (what God is trying to communicate) instead of trying to reverse engineer some wacky magic system.

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That's a good explanation I've heard for it. I was always under the assumption that forgiveness was always given if asked for, like the lent dollar, the meaning or weight comes from salvation not just because sinning (not repaying) is bad

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You can read a rundown of different historical perspectives on the atonement here. The substitutionary view people are promoting here isn't wrong, but it's not the whole picture. Many of these theories do not contradict each other, and simply have a different focus. Most things in scripture have multiple meanings.

Christoids tend to twist themselves up arguing that things HAD to be a certain way, which can lead to implying that there are all kinds of fundamental laws older than God. God could have created covenants in other ways, but the ones he created express his character and communicate messages to his people.

The death of Christ captures both the wrath of God and the forgiveness of God. It illustrates humanity's sinful nature, that it would even kill God if given the chance. It shows that God identities with humanity as more than just a distant creator, that he suffers and dies with us. And Christ's resurrection also shows that judgment is not the end--that God is offering something more than just forgiveness, but a new kind of life altogether. This is both symbolic and literal.

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>I was always under the assumption that forgiveness was always given if asked for

Those who repent are forgiven.

Then Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?” 11“No one, Lord,” she answered. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”12

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No because God is always just. If a debt must be paid, God will always pay. God is no cheat, and God's almightyness comes from the immutability of his word, the law.

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In my example I don't think it's unjust to not cut my finger off, particularly if I am the one responsible for defining what just is. God would be the ultimate authority on what is just, right?

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That would be literally be cheating though, you're changing the rules to suit your needs. God isn't capable of this human folly, he is the most just and good, and could never a break a law. If the highest law above all, God's immutable word, says, a man must burn for his sins, then God must burn for our sins in human form.

What you're repeating is literally an Islamic argument, you view God as some sort of devil who changes laws at a whim. But God's laws are perfect already.

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You keep referencing rules and laws, but God is the one making all rules and laws. You don't think it takes a way from a sacrifice, like having your son tortured and killed, if the only reason the sacrifice needs to happen is because you said it had to be that way?

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No, because without the sacrifice a sin would mean nothing. You question perfect laws with a half grasp on them. Tell me please, how is it just to break a law for some temporary pleasure? To completely undermine all sins?

You spit in the face of the man who died for your sins and in 3 days burnt for them. Disgusting.

God is just above all, his laws have always been perfect, are perfect and always will be perfect. By changing a law, he would commit an injustice. This should be quite obvious. A debt must always be repaid, even in blood. So sayeth the Lord, a Life for a Life, and eye for an eye.

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Billions of people suffer for much longer than 3 days, many suffer their whole life, it's disgusting to equate one crucifixion to that, as if they were comparable.

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Darn, you're r-slurred. Why do you keep saying the law has to be changed? The law could have just always been that way

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He doesn't know.

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Doesn't know what :marseysweating:

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He sacrificed Himself as He is the holy trinity, The Triune God the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. It's kinda like a three man burrito.

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Yes but sacrificed himself to who.

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Nega-God.

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To show you how much you are worth to him.

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