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BardWatch
She/Her
Anti-Hate-Brigade
1d ago
(text post)
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#328291
earned 28 coins from votes
Bard spotting on Bluesky 26 December 2024 
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Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
There are a lot of people talking past one another about the employment history of the judge & her spouse.
Whether or not there actually exists a conflict of interest (which is beyond my authority to say), there exists an
Appearance of Impropriety
And that should suffice for a recusal.
BUT
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
There's no appearance of impropriety, either. As it applies to the issue of recusal it's a term of art, and you haven't established that the facts here satisfy the criteria. You haven't even bothered attempting to do so
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Sir, I am very certain that I made clear that I had not finished making my statement, and that interjecting before I had done so was an arrogation - a presupposition - that you already knew my mind before the expression of it was even fixed in a medium.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
It profits no one to argue against a position not even being advanced.
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
I don't see anything in your later posts that contradicts what I said
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Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
Here's commentary on the code of conduct
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Thank you for this. I stand on my position that this commentary supports my view.
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
I stand by the fact that your commentary examined no facts, and that you don't have knowledge of all relevant facts. That said, even with the known facts I've yet to see anyone make a coherent case that the judge could not be impartial - relying only on facts and not distortions or assumptions
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
As I mentioned earlier — It's beyond me to state whether there is impropriety. I set aside that question.
My point is that, to see justice done with as few doubts as to a derailment of justice be introduced as possible, the judge should recuse.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
No one can ask every judge to be independently wealthy and have all their investments in a blind trust to try a case that intersects with the industry they invested in; that's unrealistic.
We can ask judges to consider whether they are harming public trust in the institution by taking a case.
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
This judge is not trying the case. She's a magistrate judge, not article iii, and isn't even the magistrate judge assigned to the case at this point.
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Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
What could this judge do/have done that would impact justice? What specifically would you have her do at this point?
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
I can't / wouldn't have her do anything. I am describing. I am describing the fact that public trust in the institution of the practice of the law and justice and government is at a low point.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
People will see that she profits financially by trying Mangione. That may not be rational or subject to the prescriptive logic of the discipline's CoC, but it is what will happen.
And the code you provided asks its adherents to consider that outcome.
& if she doesn't, that, too, will be seen.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
You are a professor of a discipline in which terms of art have extremely specific, specified and prescribed meanings.
Those terms of art entered your discipline from a sphere where they had (and sometimes, today, have) rather more significance.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
My position isn't one of "I expect this to carry in a court".
My position is one of "There is a reason why codes of ethics exist in the first place".
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
What reason for a core of ethics would be served by knee jerk reactions, arbitrary decisions, and relying on people who lack knowledge of the circumstances? That seems like a recipe for selective enforcement and inconsistent dealing with ethical concerns
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That degree finally paying off
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Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
But she couldn't profit from the trial and can't be the judge trying the case. What you are describing is the view of unreasonable minds not informed of the circumstances, and so necessarily cannot be an application of the standard. Speaking out against a judge based on false ideas is bad
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Yes. And people very often, in times of crisis of faith in public institutions, do not bother with the full facts, nor reason. There is only reputation, and now, reputation is not contingent to —
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
And, yet, you think your position that the judge should recuse is consistent with a rule requiring reasonable minds considering all circumstances. I'm quite confused
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
I feel that
& …
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
are the overriding considerations in that code.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
I suppose I could have served the best interests of all concerned by summarising at the top, "It's political, and …", but I take full responsibility for failure to outline a fully scoped thesis in an extemporaneous microblog
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Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
lol, removing the context that undermines your position is top notch work
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
I didn't remove it; I simply described what I see to be the overriding consideration - one which I do not see as subject to the clauses you assert undermine my position.
But again, microblogging, 300 characters, extemporaneous, and so forth.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Thanks for contributing. Have a good night.
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Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
And, frankly, I find the spread of misinformation and the shouting down of those who try to correct it as part of the problem of the decline in public distrust. Claiming that this judge is incapable of being impartial based on false claims is bad, and it is proper to call that out
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Again - It's beyond my ability and authority to represent whether she is or isn't fit.
I am describing a set of incentives for an eventual jury member to nullify the law.
As I mentioned elsewhere - "It is political", and had I scoped it as such, we would perhaps be saved a lot of discourse.
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
Yeah, nothing in what you described has anything to do with jury members
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Presumably, his attorney will stipulate a jury trial if they go to trial.
Should they do so, finding impartial jurors will be … a challenge.
Potential jurors should have as few incentives to lie to get on the jury to nullify the law, as possible.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Or lie to get off the jury. Etc.
At any rate. Thank you.
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
I'm abrasive, but hopefully you get that I'm working toward a similar end(seems like you do)
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Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
— is not contingent to, "We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong.".
To put it a different way: I spent the last 8 years focused on right wing violent extremism. That is my expertise, and is why I am describing this.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
Trump's movement is right wing Domestic Violent Extremism, premised on Anti-Government / Anti-Authority Violent Extremism.
Mangione is, technically, an Anti-Government / Anti-Authority Violent Extremist.
Ms. Penny Oaken, SkyWitch (@skywitches.net):
I am proposing that there is a delicate balance, and that everyone serving society should do everything they can, scrupulously, to be above even the politicisation of their choices.
Corey Bowers (@cbowers.bsky.social):
So stop trying to politicize and smear a judge who acted entirely within the bounds of ethical conduct. Suggesting that she acted improperly based on the fact that uninformed people may be swayed by falsehood is unscrupulous behavior
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