https://old.reddit.com/r/IndianDefense/comments/z9o8ps/so_much_for_india_egypt_relations
HAL already lost Malaysia, now they lost Egypt, and soon they'll lose Argentina as well. HAL and ADA were and still are overambitious and overconfident. It's just getting too embarrassing, I can't handle this humiliation.
Don't know what he was expecting. India first to first make wide use of it before any country buys it.
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Honestly India's defense armaments industry is still young and needs to keep growing. Hopefully losing dependency on Russian equipment soon.
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The problem is, it's not young at all. They've been trying since independence and they just have nothing to show for it because of extreme incompetence, corruption, overconfidence, and God knows what intractable political and social issues. Aircraft in particular are something they've wasted enormous amounts of money trying to build with very little to show for it.
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Modern aircraft is quite hard to get right though, it's only in the late 2000s that you really see the Chinese aircraft industry fully become mature and independent. And you can argue that countries like Japan and SK also rely heavily on external support for their developments.
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They should be relying a lot more on external support. At the very least, foreign partners would insist on them getting their asses in gear and delivering a product.
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I think the issues you highlighted above really makes most companies reluctant to work with them but I feel the market is big enough that someone will take a gamble. I just hope it doesn't take another 40 years for the next saga to wrap up.
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Hey now, to be fair our competition till the mid 2000's was Pakistan and most of our comparative military goals were in relation to competing with the rival next door and in that regard we did absolutely succeed.
It's just that the public conscience needs to shift towards bigger competition such as being a force as strong as Russia or able to rival China and over decades I am sure we would catch up.
Hey now we did get that rocket to Mars for cheap.
Plus we did build our nukes.
but yeah to be fair you are correct as well.
Lack of vision at the top strata I suppose.
Cope at the bottom.
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It's a normal part of the process to start with shitty designs and then learn from the mistakes afterwards, which is what the East Asian countries did.
The funny part is the coping from the nationalists who think everyone pointing out the obvious are just chinese/pakistani/traitorous shills.
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It's a cultural thing. So like India is a shame based culture. So the only way to succeed in a shame based culture is a mix of always hiding anything that might be deemed shameful and avoiding doing shameful things.
It always annoys me because I cannot comprehend how a system can succeed when it has an inherent incapacity to take responsibility when it fricks up but maybe I just missed some mechanism that balances things out.
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It's weird because parts of the culture come across as pretty shameless, especially to outgroup members. Like I get what you're saying but it's hard to describe since it's different from other shame concepts like East Asian "face".
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Think of it as multi layered. Again this is simply an online autismos understanding of it so don't take my word for it.
We are all trying to shame each other into doing each others bidding but at the same time the only successful defense mechanism to not get cucked is to become shameless because otherwise the entire society is driven by trying to convince other people to cater to their needs and so they will ceaselessly keep trying to shame you into only ever following their ideals and convictions.
Imagine a culture where every single individual has a partial boss ego but also is very hierarchical to the point I have trouble getting across the concept of 'I wish to work with you' to other family members because every time I try it will either end up with the other person trying to take charge or me aggressively talking them into submission and yeah it is as frustrating as you can imagine if you really do want to create an equal floor. Although there is also a possibility even I don't know what actual equality between individuals is supposed to look like.
Think of a cultural system where everyone is either slightly inferior to you or slightly superior to you and the concept of actual equal create a 404 error blue screen. Then ask yourself how would shame be utilized and reacted to in such a system and what offensive and defensive mechanisms will be developed to deal with it.
I believe there is a common concept in the west as well similar to this. Used to describe people who "feel no empathy and no shame about fooling someone or causing someone loss because if they were stupid enough to fall for it then they deserved it."
Another way to put it is that it is still a very recent trend where some of us happen to have enough that we do not need to constantly worry about someone taking it from us or needing to desperately snatch more from somebody else.
Another alternative possibility is that it's the low IQ inability to comprehend walking in somebody else's shoes issue. But for an entire culture or people. However this one seems the most unlikely as even the successful Indians tend to display such 'strange' mix of extreme sympathy for those close to them but mistreating anyone who is not a part of their inner circle without a care.
Maybe a better way to put it is that you cannot shame an Indian but you can absolutely bully them into submission via group pressure the majority of the time.
Of course I could also be completely wrong. It's all a theory.
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Nope fits into my theory that South Asian interactions operate by power dynamics which are determined by identity.
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and I threw all of mine away.
I wish I was more of a psychopath and sychophant.
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Impressive. Normally people with such severe developmental disabilities struggle to write much more than a sentence or two. He really has exceded our expectations for the writing portion. Sadly the coherency of his writing, along with his abilities in the social skills and reading portions, are far behind his peers with similar disabilities.
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Perhaps the Tejas isn't very good.
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So this is the SEND BOB AND VAGENE of making military arms deals.
Shout out to /u/adi-C-1401 and the other sane pahjeets in the that thread getting downvoted for pointing out that taking on several overambitious projects in a short time frame doesn't constitute long term planning. The rest are just nationalists sneeding about how the Indian jet is objectively better than the Korean one by claiming the official specs are better but kept sooper sekrit. When told why this is just copium propaganda they demand objective proof. All this peepee swinging over a jet that India's armed forces don't even want lol. Just look at this dude that states that his internet research (that he doesn't provide) makes him more qualified than the air forces of several countries to say that based sexy Indian dude jet > dumb gook plane.
I think arguments between South Asians should be regarded as cognitohazards for all other races, cause it's genuinely mindbreaking if you aren't used to arguing with fellow pahjeets. Each response will have it's own reality and context that it's arguing from. It's something akin to goalpost shifting but instead the soccer field is changed to a basketball court by the 3rd reply.
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I think Tejas is at least better than the migs it's supposed to replace and would be an overall improvement for the Airforce but obviously you can't expect other countries to spend billions on an aircraft that hasn't seen mass deployment.
As an aside, someone told me that Egypt pres was invited mainly for the Wheat deal not Tejas and these guys have only themselves to blame for thinking otherwise.
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Developing it is a good exercise, but it's not a good look for the project when the MIGs are still being dragged out in 2023
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It's just utterly darning when the country's own air force only has 40 of those planes made jfl.
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Yeah, it's shocking. Like when I first started lurking Indian forums more than a decade back people were talking about how Tejas is being delayed but how hopeful they're about it replacing the migs in the coming years. Now, it's 2023. I remember those discussions like it's yesterday and we are still seeing those same discussions.
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It's really incredible how long it's been delayed. It's taken approximately my entire lifetime. An entire generation has gone by so everyone involved in the beginning must have retired long ago. It's like one of those medieval cathedrals that were finished by the great-grandchildren of the guys who built the foundation.
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Snapshots:
undelete.pullpush.io
archive.org
ghostarchive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
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