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Horned_waifus_shill bra/sil Desordem e Regresso :marseybrasileiro: 🇧🇷  7d ago (image post) 449 thread views #295958

What is your opinion on the Shroud of Turin?

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  • NO : Blasphemous

The historical record of the shroud did it for me.

Put asides all scientific tests, the first historical reference of the shroud is in 1390 AD in France by a bishop claiming it is a forgery and also claiming to know the artist having made the shroud.

I just don't buy that a 1st century eastern shroud that should be one of the holiest relics of christendom just randomly appears in western europe after 1300 years. Just as the cult of relics starts to really pick up.

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Relics had been regular features of the faith going back far further than that, the first recorded account dates to 156 AD with the martyrdom of St. Polycarp of Smyrna and the collection of his burnt bones (who was a pupil of St. John the Apostle) and the Romans were fighting the Persians to control the True Cross 700 years before this. !historychads

Early !Christians faith furthermore owes to our Jewish forebears practice and the Bible itself, not just a !Catholics thing: Exodus 30:28-29 2 Kings 2:13-14

Most importantly 2 Kings 13:

21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

and in the NT :marseyandjesus: Mark 5:

27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. 28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. 29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

Acts 19:

12 from his [Paul's] body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

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Exodus 30:28-29

the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the basin with its base. You shall sanctify them, that they may be most holy. Whatever touches them shall be holy.

2 Kings 2:13-14

He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of the Jordan. He took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and struck the waters, and said, Where is Tʜᴇ Lᴏʀᴅ, the God of Elijah? and when he also had struck the waters, they were divided here and there; and Elisha went over.

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Even what is called the "true cross" was a fabrication. You clearly don't know much about where the claim of the true cross being found come from.

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Yeah, I'm not saying all relics are fake, just that there was a big demand of relics in western europe at the time that led to forgeries for monetary gain.

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The very example he quoted, the true cross, is far from being uncontroversial, as people didn't even know where Jesus had been buried, and executed, by the time an inquiry was commissioned on the matter by the emperor centuries later. This muppet mentions the true cross, but he doesn't even know the history around it.

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https://media.tenor.com/Fkp8SBZB11EAAAAx/i-think-weve-somewhat-missed-the-point-here-jesus.webp

When did I say the True Cross was necessarily the real deal? There's no need to be rude, friend.

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You are also missing my point. Relics and fraud are something that have gone hand in hand for a long time. If the shroud were known when fabrications like the true cross were being pushed on others, why would anyone not reveal it?

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No, I understand your point, you're just targetting a :marseystrawman: and being uncivil about it. Both in the thread last week and in this one I've said that there are interesting anomalies without clear answers about the claimed authentic Shroud but have never affirmed to have personal belief in the validity of it. :marseyfacepalm: My comment about the True Cross was mostly a pivot towards the oft repeated notion from Protestants that relics are a medieval superstition rather than a practice dating back to the beginning.

I'm aware that many relics are frauds, unless the decapitated head of St. John the Baptist miraculously cloned itself a couple times. :tsuchinokotruth:

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I know, I'm just nitpicking since I think a lot of Protestants and agnostics in the Anglosphere generally tend to have been raised thinking it was a Catholic extra-Biblical piece of idolatry and you gave me a prompt to work with on that. :marseyautism: It's part of my normal apologetics routine, your comment sums up how plenty of practicing religious folks feel and I personally have gone back and forth.

The most interesting piece to me is if it's a fabrication how they were able to create a photo-negative type image. At least in the discussions I've seen there isn't presently a good explanation for how Europeans of the age would accomplish that.

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:chadnoproblemk#ingcapy:

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So how much CK2 did you play?

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@Corinthian is not neurodivergent and I'd appreciate it if you didn't say that he was. :marseyindignantgook:

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He is literally a yugioh player :marseyxd:

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I might not be video game/anime :marseyautism: but I do have some spergy tendencies if we're being honest.

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I haven't played any of them, last time I was into video games was when Xbox 360 was still the current console. :marseyshrug:

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That's when CK2 released :marseysquint:

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  • Corinthian : Edit this comment and I'll unban, no blasphemy here friend! :sorry: :marseyban:

The first :marseywinner: time i sounded a bone fragment from jesus' hand i knew i came so hard i had to find salvation.

Happy?

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It's nothing personal, if you repent and sin no more I'll undo it. :marseyandjesus: :marseypope:

Have a blessed day, @NO. :marseywave2:

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