Unable to load image

Random drug dive: Toad venom :marseywave:

Ok so this one's pretty much objectively not obscure, you've probably heard of it, but it's a unique one and a fun topic so frick you I'm doing it anyways. :marseyindignant:

Toad venom (ok it's actually called 5-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine or 5-MeO-DMT) is a hallucinogen that was presumably first synthesized by God when he made toads. :marseyjesus: Human beans caught up and synthesized it ourselves in 1936. :marseychemist2:

No one cares about that gay shit though you're all here for the toad facts. :marseyfrog2: The little rascal mainly responsible for excreting this stuff is the Colorado River Toad (Incilius :marseyblops2cel: alvarius). In an international sense it's not considered an endangered species but some US states list it as endangered in their respective states. The toad excretes 5-MeO-DMT along with a heaping dosage of classic toad bufotoxin. It's excreted by parotoid glands on its back. These glands sort of coat the toad in venom to deter predators. Our special boy mostly lives in Mexico with some hanging out in the US. It's sometimes kept as a pet but it's illegal to keep it with the intention of milking it for it's secretions. :marseypepe2:

Speaking of milking :marseymommymilkers: There's quite a few ways to do it that you can find online. The most basic one is to hold the toad over some kind of receptacle for the venom, and the gently squeeze the parotoid gland until the venom comes out. Allegedly the toad does not give a shit if you do this and it doesn't hurt it. However, once you've done it ya gotta let the toad rest for quite a long time. :marseysleep: It can take weeks to regenerate the venom.

There's some evidence, although inconclusive, that the toad played an important role in ancient Mesoamerican religion as it shows up in a lot of their artwork. Most of the solid evidence for this was probably destroyed by the Spaniards. :marseyconquistador: That being said there are traces of toad venom that have been found in snuffs at some archeological sites. Implicating that the indigenous south americans were at least aware of the stuff. Whether or not it actually held religious significance or if it was just something their teenagers did to get high remains to be proven definitively (it was probably both imo).

Anyways back to the actual drug. It's commonly smoked but the effects don't last nearly as long if you do which means that a lot of people opt for snorting the stuff instead, however, some people struggle to get any psychoactive effects through snorting so your mileage my vary. A common smoking dose is like 10mg and a common snorting one is a little higher than that, 15mg or so. If you're actually getting it from toads you have to let that shit dry first. The concept of 'frog licking' is not actually very common and is not recommended. :marseyitsover:

Effects of the drug are pretty significant. Total distortion of your perception is common. Colours are heightened and sharpened. Light becomes an odd focus of a lot of trip reports. Light sources have dancing colours around them or the way that light seems to move becomes distorted. Some people report feeling as if they are dwarfs, others report that they feel higher up than everything else. Time distortion is also common, the come up feels like forever but in reality it's probably only a few minutes long if you smoke it. A lot of people report mystical experiences with toad venom. Things like meeting God or spirits or extra-dimensional entities. Whether this is because toad venom is the secret link to God or if it's because they go in LARPing as some kind of jungle shaman is up to you. :marseyqoomer: (side note, why do we not have a real marseyshaman emote). Full on 'losing yourself' is common, but many do maintain their grip on reality while tripping. Toad venom also shares a lot of effects with its relatives in the ol' hallucinogen family, but it's definitely got enough going for it to stand out from the crowd. :marseythumbsup:

As for negative effects well the bufotoxin does not play nice with your body, unless you're smoking that pure laboratory shit. Rapid heart hate, weak muscles, vomiting, hypertension, things that would happen to you if you ate a frog without thinking of its feelings first. :marseycry: These effects are usually pretty mild though. Colorado River Frog venom can kill a lot of predators but humans tend to make it out ok. Sometimes the negative physical effects can ruin a trip, and they do persist for a while after the psychoactive effects fade so be careful out there. There have been deaths reported with toad venom as a complicating factor. :marseyworried:

Medically some argue that 5-MeO-DMT has a place in treating depression. This usually stems from the same arguments that surround using other psychedelics for treating depression. :marseymeds:

Even if you're smoking lab shit it's not really recommended that you take any other drugs with this stuff. Although some people report that weed can mellow out an intense trip. The worst thing to take with it appears to be alcohol, which is probably not much of a surprise. :marseyhungover: Adding poison on top of poison is probably not a good idea.

5-MeO-DMT is schedule 1 in the US and it's illegal in most other developed and undeveloped countries. But you obviously cannot make illegal the Noble Toade, especially if it's native to your country. So getting toad venom isn't that hard. As mentioned earlier you can own Colorado River Toads as pets so long as you don't intend to milk them, pretty much making it impossible to totally stop the production of this stuff. Back in the 70s there was a church called the Church of the Tree of Life in the US that claimed that toad venom was sacred to their religion. Here is a thread with some people talking about the place. Interesting stuff if you're into drug history. :marseykoolaid:

Culturally toad venom has been pretty prominent. There was and arguably still is a bit of a moral panic about it. The prospect of a difficult to ban high, especially with the War on Drugs in full swing, was kindling to every news media outlet in the United States during the late 20th century. :!marseyreportercnn: :marseyreporterfox: The Simpsons did a parody of it. And to this day people are warning against licking these little guys (and you really shouldn't).

For better or for worse the Mighty Colorado River Toad (or the Sonoran Desert Toad if you prefer) has embedded itself into US and South American culture. From wannabee modern shamans to kids fricking around in National Parks the little guy is emblematic of humanity's never ending search for meaning through mysticism and ritual, and its never ending search for drugs. So if you come across one of these guys hopping around, toss 'em a worm or something as thanks. :marseysalutearmy:

Here's a picture of a Colorado River Toad with its parotoid gland in full view (it's the thing to the right of its eye)

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16864128692747467.webp

Further readings:

TV tropes page with more references to toad licking

The indispensable erowid experiences vault

Until next time you junkie fricks :marseywave:

42
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Since you can get affected by it without eating the frog, it's a venom. Even though it's usually works as a poison.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Wrong. Ingesting it as any kind, even through absorbing it through the skin, is a poison.

Venoms are through stingers or fangs.


:chad!black2: :marseybear::marseyrefrigerator:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

What are red ants then?

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Venomous. They have stingers.


:chad!black2: :marseybear::marseyrefrigerator:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

No they don't. They spray enemies with acid, then maybe bite them.

@searcher

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

They have stingers dummy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ant

myrmecine ants like fire ants have a dedicated venom-injecting sting, which injects an alkaloid venom, as well as mandibles for biting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_venom

Even when they spray venom, it is still venom.

The difference between venom and poison is that one is active (venom) and the other is passive (poison).


:chad!black2: :marseybear::marseyrefrigerator:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_rufa, I think it's the most common ant in Europe.

Even when they spray venom, it is still venom.

The difference between venom and poison is that one is active (venom) and the other is passive (poison).

Earlier:

Wrong. Ingesting it as any kind, even through absorbing it through the skin, is a poison.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Spraying is rare, so it's typically not mentioned. The difference is still active vs passive.

Look up the species. It will say they have venom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_venom

Most ants spray or inject a venom


:chad!black2: :marseybear::marseyrefrigerator:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Active vs passive fails in case of that fish with venomous spines that uses them strictly defensively.

My point is that shit is complicated I guess.

I proposed a definition: poisonous means that you have to have your flesh to be eaten to harm someone.

You countered with a seemingly widely accepted definition that venom must get into the body through a rupture in the skin, else it's poison.

I countered with an example of common ants that spray formic acid (and then, to complicate things further, try to use their jaws to break the skin and let the acid do much more damage).

Then you totally forgot your original point and proposed to classify all offensive uses of poisons as envenomings. Which, all right, but that fish with venomous spines.

So I think I was right when I pointed out that while most of the time frogs use their poison passively, defensively, in a way that involves them getting eaten, once it's milked out of them it becomes a venom according to a lot of the same definitions.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

i was talking about Solenopsis invicta

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

venomous

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Link copied to clipboard
Action successful!
Error, please refresh the page and try again.