Lots of detailed europoor arguments, but I'll try only link the juiciest ones and to summarize them so you can pick which ones you want to bother with
Why do we have to send weapons? Why isn't anyone else sending shit? We just bought these. decided to explain the problem and got jumped by the hussars.
(good fight, very angry slavs)
We're dying and russian allies appear to be way more reliable than our partners.
Well, maybe if you were better neighbours in the past you would get more help now
Your position is clear and understandable, but I just want to remind you: while Poland is sparing its taxpayers' money, Ukraine is spending the lives of its taxpayers in the trenches. That is a huge difference. I think it would be worthwhile to understand Ukraine's tough demands. People are dying there every day, yet instead of solid military support, there are issues, and even the Baltic countries are afraid to help Ukraine shoot down missiles and Shaheds over its own territory.
And if it so happens that Ukraine runs out of people, the Baltic countries might regret having saved their money, as it will then be their turn to lose their taxpayers in war. Alternatively, they may have to befriend a blood-soaked Russia.
A juicy argument here but lots of too. Basically, at the beginning of the war Ukraine accidentally sent a drone over the border into Poland and killed two people. Poland blamed them, Ukraine blamed Russia. Since they're both slavs neither backed down and there was apparently a very heated argument in the backchannels about it. So, are a bunch of ungrateful buttholes? (yes) Should just shut up already and fork over the fancy new weapons?
(Ukraine also droned , twice I think, but they didn't cause any deaths and we basically just told them to aim their shit better)
From my cynical point of view: the military issues are no longer relevant in Polish-Ukrainian relatons. They were in the beginning stages of the war, when Kyiv was under danger of being occupied, and Poland had to open transport hubs for crucial aid for Ukraine. But now, the front-line hasn't been moving drastically in any direction for a while.
Now, Ukraine has decided to pivot towards Germany and France before hypothetical peace negotiations, so I'm afraid Poland is effectively out of the political game. The big players have stepped in.
I guess that's what happens when emotion-based politics clash with the so called Realpolitik, lol
Are and (still) friends? Are poles just whiny insecure buttholes? (also yes) Should the West ask for Poland's opinions every time they want to discuss shit with Ukraine?
The same as always. From the cult of the Nazi Bandera, the exhumation of victims of murders committed by Ukrainians on Poles, to omitting Poland when planning further actions. I will not even mention the territorial claims of Ukraine towards Poland, which were mentioned by the (now) former minister of the Ukrainian government during his visit to Poland (which enraged many Poles).
Old wounds are getting unburied. are told to just shut up already and stop whining, unsurprisingly they aren't happy about it.
I might just be living under a rock but, this is the first time i hear about territorial claims.
Every neighbouring eastern european countries have territorial disputes It's easier to name exceptions at this point (love you Serbia )
You think that "thinking straight" in this case is to prefer fighting Russians on Polish territory instead of fighting them in Ukraine?
Will conquering be the end of ? (yes if redditors would have a say in it )
im sorry but with ukrainian diplomacy towards Poland, poeple here in Poland started to get annoyed as heck just as me, frick ukrainian politics who use Poland only as military road and nothing else, they didnt apologise for rocket that killed Poles, they didnt even mentioned Poland in their 'victory plan' guess who is between France,Germany and Ukraine? its like they expect us to agree to everything and this piss me off so much and other Poles too.
Then we have a situation where zelesky is mad at Poland becase Polish politics said they wont let Ukraine join Eu if they wont fix their porlem with nazi bandera ( bandera is national here there, the guy who cimmited genecide od 100k+ Poles , bebys,women and men, he also worked with nazis)
now you see, Poland helped a lot, 300+ tanks, jets, armored venihles, we even pay for starlink, and send electricy to Ukraine at this moment, we even pay to cost of sending ammo to Ukraine ( everybody send their ammo to Poland then they are send to Ukraine)
fk this, and frick ukraine reta*ed diplomacy against Poland, fk them
i still want Ukraine to win but dont expect us to help you when you spit in our face
No seriously just shut up about your dead already!
Worry not, soon there will be no Ukraine and you will be dealing with Russian diplomacy directly, no more Ukrainian diplomacy hurting your feelings.
We already border Russia and Belarus, so we're already dealing with their "diplomacy" directly.
Smartest redditor
The Ukrainian government are such a obnoxious buttholes, they should be glad that Russia is even worse.
Poland shouldn't be pressured to give them brand new weapons, they bought for their military.
Should get uppity, considering they get money from ? Fellow gib enthusiast comes to the rescue.
(Also yeah, the only reason the other eastern european countries even bother to help Ukraine is because we all hate Russia more And we all can't wait for the war to end so we can start demanding reparations and apologies from them now that they try to join EU/NATO )
Westerners when someone dared to criticise them once in the past
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First /r/europe thread where the top commenters acknowledge that Ukraine is being unreasonable lmao interesting
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Eastern european countries have a frick ton amount of issues to settle and no amount of 'support the current thing' will convince us to drop them Threads where two or more eastern european countries fight are very different in tone than the ones dominated by western redditors.
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zelensky is such a bully beggar lmao
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im sure the money is all going to what its supposed to...Zelensky meeting with his accounting department
!slots100
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Why not try to get gibs if you can? Worst that can happen is that you just don't get gibs
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Yeah, no shit?
Most countries just gave Ukraine their old shit and got gifted new stuff in return by rich countries. That was the whole "ring exchange" thing. Give them old air defense systems - get a new patriot one. Give them old tanks? Get newer German ones.
Countries used the war to modernize their own military for cheap. Of course they won't gift away their new toys.
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The entitled attitude of Ukraine has made me wish the whole country gets annexed lol
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Nooo, we need them as shield against Russia!
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same but by america
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Yes
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If Ukraine loses, you have a fully roaring Russian war machine and a completely scattered Europe and a paralyzed USA. This is the opportunity of a century for Russia and they might try to seize it. Nukes are a pretty massive deterrent but it's possible that it's not enough anymore.
Ironically, that makes me think that the immediate countries beyond Ukraine should be well armed before that can potentially happen. Other countries need to step up to supply both if they are actually worried about Russia.
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@Tonscarry they are talking about you hicks
comment so i can chud you
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Let us have some rockets especially when theyre freshly bought. @Tonscarry support ukros but lets be real theres a line of too much. Ask westards we are on top of ukro supporters anyways, Germs could do some aiding instead of being all talk no bite and acting smug about it
!kurwa !eurochads
And of course, furry rights are human rights
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My uncle described Ukrainians as "Poles from 25 years ago" and it's incredibly accurate.
That's why I dislike them.
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Poland should welcome 50 million Africans to compensate for its low fertility rate
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Why do you keep chudding her?
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she fricked up one of my longposts
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Lol understandable
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Dont misgender also i just said it was TOO LONG how did that ruin it Furry rights are human rights
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To be fair to them, it took me a while to realize you are not a foid when I first arrived here.
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That just means @Tonscarry's larp is effective
@Tonscarry mean look at average amount of angry replies under @Tonscarry's anti chud comments
Furry rights are human rights in heck
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You'll forever be a foid to me
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Redditors almost make me want to cheer for Russia. Almost.
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Redditors are the best propaganda tool ever, just convince them to support the other side
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Ukraine has a population of 38 million. It's lost about 80,000 killed.
In WW1 France had a population of 40 million. They lost 1,500,000 killed and still managed to win the war.
I've just about lost patience with the Ukrainians. They need to immediately get their shit together and fix whatever internal political problems are hindering the war effort. Most importantly, draft dodging.
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Modern democracies don't tolerate losses as well as before. Compare the reaction to the Korean war ( 33,686 dead) and the vietnam war (47,434 dead). Not to mention their fertility is shit and all their women are in western europe.
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War was different back when you knew the youngins were expendable
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Also they're being fed a steady stream of cope by the government. 'we are winning', 'we will win by this winter', ect.
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The falklands war propaganda has become a meme in argentina
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This could be us except instead of winning
We get called r-slurs on a cat forum for supporting a country we want to see succeed
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Ukraine never figured out a proper draft dodging solution because they are worried that going too hard after civilians will make the West angry and less likely to support them
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We really are the worst.
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Gibe moni jajajajajajajjajajaajjaja but funny russian letters
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Have any enterprising euros started up old ammunition plants in a cheap country like Bulgaria yet to make shells as a cost plus contract donation for Ukraine? As far as I know the existing donations are one offs of existing stock
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We did. We were already producing old style soviet munition and expanded that after the invasion, started making more varied munition now and we'll move on to produce drones too. We're also preparing to reopen on old munition factory, biggest in Eastern Europe or something.
And we started building repairing centers for all types of western weapons, mainly so that Ukraine can repair their equipment fast, but obviously they'll be used for more stuff in the future.
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Thank God. America somehow is unable to get anything done quickly at a reasonable price. This should be a massive scandal where we're tossing politicians out of windows. For several months while it was obvious to me that we needed to make more shells immediately, the government did nothing. When they finally acted it's been on way too small a scale, taking years to build the plants, and way more expensive than it should be. I guess Romania has to be the Arsenal of Democracy now.
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I'm surprised we moved this fast too, but apparently if there's one thing that can make us stop being this lazy is hearing that we can do something to make America like us more Our main strategy is to become invaluable to the west in the region so that they will have to defend us if something happens.
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Khohols are trying to bypass SK sale terms by buying second-hand gear. Naughty naughty
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So what happened with that whole Ukrainian advance into Russia a few months back? Did it stall out?
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They are still in Russia and still advancing, but at a very slow pace now. Still embarrassing for Putin
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jó reggelt kívánok
Snapshots:
https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1gdkzvj/poland_declined_ukraines_request_for_weapons_from/:
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It is fair to ask and it's fair to reject the request. Certainly I wish the west was willing or able to provide more, and more quickly.:
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This is a complex issue, and I don't believe Poland should have to take responsibility for all the weak-kneed politicians in the EU, but this path doesn't seem to be the best one.:
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I guess that's what happens when emotion-based politics clash with the so called Realpolitik, lol:
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I want to understand because we don't have that negative discussion about Poland in Ukraine. What topics is everyone fed up with? At the end of the day, diplomacy is words, so which specific phrases come to mind when you think about specific cases of bad ua diplomacy? I don't have that in my bubble, so I'm sincerely interested.:
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I get that Ukraine/Zelensky is basically "cold-calling" anywhere and everywhere for weapons but it's just not productive for Ukraine/Zelensky to be asking for somethings that's just never going to happen. You could ask your buddy to borrow 5€, maybe you could even ask your rich trust fund friend for 5000€ but you can't ask someone whose yearly salary is 50000€ to borrow/give 5000€. You are making your friend say "no" and make your friend question whether you are thinking straight when you should know your friend doesn't have spare 5000€ under a mattress.:
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god, this is pissing me off:
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Poland shouldn't be pressured to give them brand new weapons, they bought for their military.:
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I remember all the Redditors becoming super mad because Germany wouldnt give up all their tanks and artillery….:
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Kill slavs
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