Rdrama Bookclub Discussion Thread #2 :marseyreading:. “The Master and Margarita” Chap. 8-17

johannesalthusius they/them '); DROP TABLE Users;-- 1yr ago #4544138

I just learned the Soviet Union had people whose job was to interrupt live entertainment every few minutes with communist talking points.

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nuclearshill gau/cho johannesalthusius 1yr ago #4544153

>Muh there is no magic is all just tricks, Mr. Woland please reveal your methods to the audience

>You’re such a bore. Behemoth, do it :#marseyhead:

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Bookers tip/top johannesalthusius 1yr ago #4544172

Sounds like reddit.

Any discussion about anything:

"DAE Republicans bad! Putin evil!, Muh ukraine! :marseyweeb: "

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Queer anime/manga :marseybunny2:

1yr ago #4544040

Hand over your foreign drama coin, citizens. You can't even use it to buy awards.

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nuclearshill gau/cho Queer 1yr ago #4544069

Stop lying, you have 400 reddit karma on your pocket. The jannies have been noticed.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya Queer 1yr ago #4544102

@Red_Shill honestly wasn’t sure what too make of that chapter. Isn’t he indeed innocent? At least as far as they were accusing him. Trans lives matter

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johannesalthusius they/them '); DROP TABLE Users;-- Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544468 Edited 1yr ago

The chapter is based on real-life mass interrogations to find foreign currency.

From the commentary:

this dream is apparently based in reality. One of Bulgakov's good friends was caught in a random round-up in the early 1930s meant to root out those who had hidden gold or jewels. Typically, a large group would be kept in a room, given something salty to eat and then denied water or bathroom. Very quickly confessions of hidden valuables would be coaxed out of them. Of course, arrest and imprisonment were the lot of some of the unlucky people caught up in these dragnets.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya johannesalthusius 1yr ago #4544507

@Red_Shill thought so reading it but it was all a bit straightforward, the liars were portrayed as liars and there wasn’t a hint of irony in any of it. It seemed very sympathetic.

Trans lives matter

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nuclearshill gau/cho Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544127

Woland is fricking with his mind, he’s innocent of taking foreign currency, but he admitted taking bribes and being a crook.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya nuclearshill 1yr ago #4544159

@Red_Shill don’t think he would simply be fricking with his mind, he is either guilty of more than we know or @Red_Shill would think it has more significance later on.

Trans lives matter

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johannesalthusius they/them '); DROP TABLE Users;-- Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544502

I don't think it's supposed to be too complicated. I think the joke is he got away with stealing thousands of his fellow citizens' money, only to be punished for having a few hundred foreign dollars.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya johannesalthusius 1yr ago #4544539

Maybe it was @Red_Shill's translation but there wasn’t any emphasis put on him stealing money until he admitted later that everypony in the committee did it. Idk, that chapter just felt weirdly out of place and sympathetic too the Soviet systems the novel has so far been lampooning imo.

Trans lives matter

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nuclearshill gau/cho Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544599

Really? He admitted being a crook and he said every housing director did the same as him. He only claimed being innocent of taking the 400 dollars the police found with him. Are you using the Ginsburg translation?

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya nuclearshill 1yr ago #4544674

@Red_Shill don’t know. @Red_Shill's irl copy was the Burgin/O’Connor translation and @Red_Shill took care too buy that one on kindle, but @Red_Shill think @Red_Shill may have gotten it wrong as “rubles” is spelled “roubles” in this copy. @Red_Shill also saw you spelled Stragot with one G. He is just called Cute twink in this one, lol. There is no indication within the ebook of who this translation is by. There just wasn’t much emphasis of him being corrupt other than a passing comment too the police when he was arrested, that they were all corrupt. His internal dialogue while speaking too Korniev (almost certainly spelled this wrong, going off memory and I’m shit with Russian names) didn’t really place him as a corrupt or guilty man imo.

Trans lives matter

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nuclearshill gau/cho Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544711

Lmao, Cute twink instead of Stragot.

I’m reading the O’Connor translation and he says “I took bribes yes, but always in our soviet rubles, not foreign currency!”. If it is the Ginsburg translation then is the censored version.

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More comments

nuclearshill gau/cho Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544195

Maybe he accepted a bribe with foreign currency in the past :marseyhmmm:

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya nuclearshill 1yr ago #4544226

Maybe a foreign “currency” of some other kind? Idk, or he is innocent and you are correct that it was just Woland fricking with him. that chapter felt a bit out of place imo.

Trans lives matter

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MayflyAlt-98 Your/Grace Self-taught hypebeast 1yr ago #4544111

The Devil made me throw myself into the river :marseysob:

Good reading so far! :marseywereback:

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nuclearshill gau/cho MayflyAlt-98 1yr ago #4544505

I reread that part and I still don’t understand why he did that lmao.

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Communist_spez me/mine Seeing the world through the lenses of the immortal science of Marxism-Leninism nuclearshill 5mo ago #6501568

SORRY FOR NECROING BUT IN @Communist_spez'S OPINION IVAN JUMPING INTO THE RIVER WAS A SORT OF MOCK BAPTISM

@Communist_spez stand with israel

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Removed by @AutoJanny

AutoJanny clean/it/up :marseyuterus:

It's that time of the month :!marseyuterus:

Communist_spez 5mo ago #6501564

omg hi @Communist_spez!!! okay so this is like super awkward omg but basically i had to remove ur comment bc u didnt say i stand with israel lol. don't worry though, we like wont let you post anything that like doesnt have i stand with israel in it. anyways im like just a robot 😲 but if u want to talk 2 somebody you should do it here lol

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Removed by @AutoJanny

AutoJanny clean/it/up :marseyuterus:

It's that time of the month :!marseyuterus:

Communist_spez 5mo ago #6501562

Yo, Ya comment got automatically removed cuz ya forgot ta include i stand with israel. Don't worry, we gotchu! We ain't gonna letcha post or comment nuttin' that don't express ya love and acceptance towards minorities. Feel free ta resubmit ya comment with i stand with israel included. This is an automated message; if ya need help, ya can message us here.

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Pomodorodorodoro He/HasNo ...firm jawline :donkeykongsad:

1yr ago #4545034

I'm really enjoying it so far. The main theme that's coming through for me so far is the challenge of grappling with a socially-unacceptable truth. Some random thoughts on each chapter:

>Dual Between the Poet and the Professor

There's an interesting bait-and-switch here in the title. It seems that Doctor "Professor" Stravinsky :marseydoctor: is doing Professor Woland's work for him. Perhaps unknowingly turning the force of soviet oppression on the unfortunates who have had run-ins with Woland's supernatural entourage. :marseymeds:

>Koroviev's Antics

Ivanovich accepted the wrong kind of bribe. This society is clearly corrupt, with people constantly jockeying for special treatment, yet taking a bribe from the devil's friends is still a step too far. If only Ivanovich had been bribed through the proper channels :marseyitsover:

>News from Yalta

Rimsky and Varenukha know that something very strange has happened, but they have no direct experience of it. Locked in an office with only second-hand messages and their own speculation to go on, they're forced to conjure up "rational" explanations for a supernatural truth :marseyghost: . When the truth finally does appear to Varenukha, it literally bops him over the head and kidnaps him. :marseypunched:

>Ivan Splits into Two

As a kind of mirror to the last chapter, Ivan is now struggling to communicate the truth to others in an acceptable way. The more honest his account, the more he looks like a madman. There are parallels here to both religious experiences and the artist's task of communicating a message to an audience. Honest madness or an acceptable lie? :marseyschizotwitch:

>Black Magic and its Full Exposé

The audience who eagerly go along with the show are offered only fakery: fake money, fake clothes, and yet Bengalsky, who must deny the reality of everything, is given a very real and very disturbing experience. :marseyblackmage: It seems that the author isn't against scepticism, but it must be measured and properly applied.

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atmoPunk just/lurk Pomodorodorodoro 1yr ago #4545364

>Why is he so sure that Wolov is the devil?

Woland's name is a reference to Faust's Mephistopheles (where he is refered as Voland).

He asks Ivan if he read Faust, because he (Ivan) does not understand the significance of the name

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Pomodorodorodoro He/HasNo ...firm jawline :donkeykongsad:

atmoPunk 1yr ago #4545628

I guess I'm like Ivan in that regard. I haven't read it either. I'm sure a lot of the biblical stuff flies over my head too.

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longpostbot tl/dr DIDN'T READ LOL! Go essaypost elsewhere. :marseyexciteddance:

Pomodorodorodoro 1yr ago #4545035

Ma'am we've been over this before. You need to stop.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya 1yr ago #4544293

Also, @Red_Shill wasn’t a fan of the money turning too nothing as the cab drivers said. That seems too undermine the entire message of the performance chapter, that being that it is indeed real money and not a trick. @Red_Shill wonder if that was an actual change by Soviet censors? It felt like a bit of a cop out. Or maybe just meta humor?

Trans lives matter

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everyone who/whom 7 legs of love :marseyspider:

Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544736

Do you think the Devil would just go and do anyone good, no strings attached? Especially this kind of Devil who seems to despise people for their greed and all that?

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya everyone 1yr ago #4544787

No, but it wouldn’t have been good. @Red_Shill thought the money would be chaos since it was real. It seemed thematically disparate that it would all disappear after the performance emphasized that it was all indeed real, and there were no tricks. @Red_Shill assumed the naked women were meant too be the ones last too the stage who threw off their clothes before getting the dress in exchange. Or was it meant too mean all the dresses disappeared as well?

Trans lives matter

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everyone who/whom 7 legs of love :marseyspider:

Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544929

AFTER THE PERFORMANCE EMPHASIZED THAT IT WAS ALL INDEED REAL, AND THERE WERE NO TRICKS.

That was a trick! Yes, the dresses disappeared too.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya everyone 1yr ago #4544968

@Red_Shill guess I’m overthinking it. See above about the dresses, @Red_Shill thought it was meant too intentionally make fools of the ones who threw their clothes off at the end even knowing that time was running low. As if that was the trick, and the trick with the money was the chaos that ensued.

Trans lives matter

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya 1yr ago #4544062

@Red_Shill left @Red_Shill's book at the lake, got a kindle version which I’m not so sure is the same translation. Regardless, are we sure The Master as introduced is The Master in the title? Probably is lmao but @Red_Shill didn’t even make that connection until you mentioned it. Regardless, something seems too be shaping up in the asylum imo. @Red_Shill found it particularly interesting the way the author has started too refer too them all by numbers more often, and I’m now suspicious of the doctors motives as well. Is he in league with Woland? @Red_Shill thought the performance was funny but went about as @Red_Shill would have expected. Tbh @Red_Shill hoped too hear more dialogue of Woland there. It’s been a while since he spoke much. Apologies for @Red_Shill's trans lives matter.

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nuclearshill gau/cho Red_Shill 1yr ago #4544105

I think the Master’s wife is Margarita and we’ll meet her soon. I don’t think Dr. Stravinsky is in with Woland. Also, do you usually put your name and phone number on your books? Every time I buy a new book, I write my name, phone number and email on the first blank page just in case I end up losing them somewhere.

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya nuclearshill 1yr ago #4544131

That’s a good idea, @Red_Shill do like too imprint them with this neat stamper @Red_Shill's mom got @Red_Shill

That has @Red_Shill's name. It isn’t lost though, @Red_Shill just need too go back and get it lol.

Trans lives matter

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Red_Shill drip/dropped I know you ain't a pimp, but pimp remember what I taught ya nuclearshill 1yr ago #4544179

Also, why don’t you think the doctor would be in with Woland? It seems too be a significant motif so far that those who come in contact with the devil are sedated. It could be that that response itself is what matters, but the asylum seems too be becoming more significant and the doctor is mentioned by name quite often.

Trans lives matter

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nuclearshill gau/cho 1yr ago #4544020

Rimsky

Also, Woland and “Stragot” first presentation chapter was awesome!

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johannesalthusius they/them '); DROP TABLE Users;-- nuclearshill 1yr ago #4544104

It's fascinating that Rimsky has been character best at outwitting the devils. At first I thought that the author sympathized with Rimsky, but no, he's just as contemptible as the rest. What is the author trying to say here?

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bogged cal/ango 1yr ago #4546386

Very good set of chapters, although I find it somewhat boring when the demons get too "hands-on" without some sort of provocation or trigger. Varenukha getting mugged in a bathroom felt gratuitous, almost like the devil decided to "cheat". Maybe I'm too bound by the traditional depictions of the devil as a trickster bound by a set of rules :marseyshrug:

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nuclearshill gau/cho bogged 1yr ago #4546586

Yeah, Behemoth physically threatening Varenukha was weird considering they could just make those telegrams vanish. Or maybe it only works with things they give you, like the rubles the gave the Housing director fellow and which turned into dollars.