Orange site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32771071
Although tech platforms can help keep us connected, create a vibrant marketplace of ideas, and open up new opportunities for bringing products and services to market, they can also divide us and wreak serious real-world harms. The rise of tech platforms has introduced new and difficult challenges, from the tragic acts of violence linked to toxic online cultures, to deteriorating mental health and wellbeing, to basic rights of Americans and communities worldwide suffering from the rise of tech platforms big and small.
Today, the White House convened a listening session with experts and practitioners on the harms that tech platforms cause and the need for greater accountability. In the meeting, experts and practitioners identified concerns in six key areas: competition; privacy; youth mental health; misinformation and disinformation; illegal and abusive conduct, including sexual exploitation; and algorithmic discrimination and lack of transparency.
One participant explained the effects of anti-competitive conduct by large platforms on small and mid-size businesses and entrepreneurs, including restrictions that large platforms place on how their products operate and potential innovation. Another participant highlighted that large platforms can use their market power to engage in rent-seeking, which can influence consumer prices.
Several participants raised concerns about the rampant collection of vast troves of personal data by tech platforms. Some experts tied this to problems of misinformation and disinformation on platforms, explaining that social media platforms maximize "user engagement" for profit by using personal data to display content tailored to keep users' attention---content that is often sensational, extreme, and polarizing. Other participants sounded the alarm about risks for reproductive rights and individual safety associated with companies collecting sensitive personal information, from where their users are physically located to their medical histories and choices. Another participant explained why mere self-help technological protections for privacy are insufficient. And participants highlighted the risks to public safety that can stem from information recommended by platforms that promotes radicalization, mobilization, and incitement to violence.
Multiple experts explained that technology now plays a central role in access to critical opportunities like job openings, home sales, and credit offers, but that too often companies' algorithms display these opportunities unequally or discriminatorily target some communities with predatory products. The experts also explained that that lack of transparency means that the algorithms cannot be scrutinized by anyone outside the platforms themselves, creating a barrier to meaningful accountability.
One expert explained the risks of social media use for the health and wellbeing of young people, explaining that while for some, technology provides benefits of social connection, there are also significant adverse clinical effects of prolonged social media use on many children and teens' mental health, as well as concerns about the amount of data collected from apps used by children, and the need for better guardrails to protect children's privacy and prevent addictive use and exposure to detrimental content. Experts also highlighted the magnitude of illegal and abusive conduct hosted or disseminated by platforms, but for which they are currently shielded from being held liable and lack adequate incentive to reasonably address, such as child sexual exploitation, cyberstalking, and the non-consensual distribution of intimate images of adults.
The White House officials closed the meeting by thanking the experts and practitioners for sharing their concerns. They explained that the Administration will continue to work to address the harms caused by a lack of sufficient accountability for technology platforms. They further stated that they will continue working with Congress and stakeholders to make bipartisan progress on these issues, and that President Biden has long called for fundamental legislative reforms to address these issues.
Attendees at today's meeting included:
Bruce Reed, Assistant to the President & Deputy Chief of Staff
Susan Rice, Assistant to the President & Domestic Policy Advisor
Brian Deese, Assistant to the President & National Economic Council Director
Louisa Terrell, Assistant to the President & Director of the Office of Legislative Affairs
Jennifer Klein, Deputy Assistant to the President & Director of the Gender Policy Council
Alondra Nelson, Deputy Assistant to the President & Head of the Office of Science and Technology Policy
Bharat Ramamurti, Deputy Assistant to the President & Deputy National Economic Council Director
Anne Neuberger, Deputy National Security Advisor for Cyber and Emerging Technology
Tarun Chhabra, Special Assistant to the President & Senior Director for Technology and National Security
Dr. Nusheen Ameenuddin, Chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Council on Communications and Media
Danielle Citron, Vice President, Cyber Civil Rights Initiative, and Jefferson Scholars Foundation Schenck Distinguished Professor in Law Caddell and Chapman Professor of Law, University of Virginia School of Law
Alexandra Reeve Givens, President and CEO, Center for Democracy and Technology
Damon Hewitt, President and Executive Director, Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law
Mitchell Baker, CEO of the Mozilla Corporation and Chairwoman of the Mozilla Foundation
Karl Racine, Attorney General for the District of Columbia
Patrick Spence, Chief Executive Officer, Sonos
Principles for Enhancing Competition and Tech Platform Accountability
With the event, the Biden-Harris Administration announced the following core principles for reform:
Promote competition in the technology sector. The American information technology sector has long been an engine of innovation and growth, and the U.S. has led the world in the development of the Internet economy. Today, however, a small number of dominant Internet platforms use their power to exclude market entrants, to engage in rent-seeking, and to gather intimate personal information that they can use for their own advantage. We need clear rules of the road to ensure small and mid-size businesses and entrepreneurs can compete on a level playing field, which will promote innovation for American consumers and ensure continued U.S. leadership in global technology. We are encouraged to see bipartisan interest in Congress in passing legislation to address the power of tech platforms through antitrust legislation.
Provide robust federal protections for Americans' privacy. There should be clear limits on the ability to collect, use, transfer, and maintain our personal data, including limits on targeted advertising. These limits should put the burden on platforms to minimize how much information they collect, rather than burdening Americans with reading fine print. We especially need strong protections for particularly sensitive data such as geolocation and health information, including information related to reproductive health. We are encouraged to see bipartisan interest in Congress in passing legislation to protect privacy.
Protect our kids by putting in place even stronger privacy and online protections for them, including prioritizing safety by design standards and practices for online platforms, products, and services. Children, adolescents, and teens are especially vulnerable to harm. Platforms and other interactive digital service providers should be required to prioritize the safety and wellbeing of young people above profit and revenue in their product design, including by restricting excessive data collection and targeted advertising to young people.
Remove special legal protections for large tech platforms. Tech platforms currently have special legal protections under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act that broadly shield them from liability even when they host or disseminate illegal, violent conduct or materials. The President has long called for fundamental reforms to Section 230.
Increase transparency about platform's algorithms and content moderation decisions. Despite their central role in American life, tech platforms are notoriously opaque. Their decisions about what content to display to a given user and when and how to remove content from their sites affect Americans' lives and American society in profound ways. However, platforms are failing to provide sufficient transparency to allow the public and researchers to understand how and why such decisions are made, their potential effects on users, and the very real dangers these decisions may pose.
Stop discriminatory algorithmic decision-making. We need strong protections to ensure algorithms do not discriminate against protected groups, such as by failing to share key opportunities equally, by discriminatorily exposing vulnerable communities to risky products, or through persistent surveillance.
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any child under the age of 18 should only be allowed to use CoolMathGames.com, under adult supervision ofc.
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I kind of it unironically agree with this. Coolmathgames and Wikipedia. No gay piss orgies until you're 18; only then do you get your prolapseparty.com certificates.
No idea how to enforce this, though, without also breaking society in a 1984 way.
Don't forget to turn off signatures in settings!
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Lol you can find a lot of adult content on wikipedia
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Yeah, like s*x positions and bukkake. But reading about champagne-glass titties in Song of Solomon and where the clitoris is on Wikipedia isn't exactly akin to getting groomed into a furry or .
Don't forget to turn off signatures in settings!
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1-5 sound good
6 sounds like red meat tossed to yt pipo which is why it’ll be the only one that’ll get done
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4 sounds horrible
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whatever the govt tries to do here, it's going to frick it up.
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Aren't most of the things they mention (aside from discrimination) stuff dramatards tend to ree about?
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I like points 1 and 2.
3, nobody is forcing you or your children to use faceberg, snapfap or instragram. Why should we make legislation to force tech companies to do things the parents are responsible for. (Guide and protect their kids online)
5 and 6 should be up to the digression of the online service. As annoying the problems they outlined are, there isn't any good reason the government should be dictating HOW you chose to run your service. If the users don't like it, they can move. (how would they enforce this?)
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By that same logic it shouldn't be illegal for children to view porn etc?
While it would be nice if parents parented their children more we must accept that relying on them to is a fools errand.
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The extremes have already been accounted for. Porn is already illegal for minors (same as alcohol, nicotine, etc) because there is enough evidence to reasonably assert it is harmful to their suggestive and developing minds.
The dangers of social media and cyberspace aren't always so obvious. And unlike porn and drugs, the internet has plethora of constructive and productive uses, so you can't just blanket ban minors. Online platforms (and the internet in general) are too big and too diverse (for lack of better word) for it to be possible to "protect the children" without implementing such restrictive policies that those platforms would become more cumbersome and invasive than most users would be comfortable with. (And despite being illegal, minors continue to get their hands on porn, alcohol and drugs anyway. Kinda seems like legislation doesn't stop people from doing whatever they want. )
Depending on parents to fulfill their responsibilities as parents is the most reasonable solution. The alternative is relying the government to parent our children for us (what could they do that a parent can't?). There is no perfect solution to this problem, therefore we should chose the most reasonable solution.
It is not reasonable to enact policies that affects everyone because a minority of parents are shitty, and it is naive to expect the government to protect our children for us.
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Just ban children
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Aevann ran a chud award train on me last time I said that.
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Aevann likes me more than you
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Jealous?
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Because you're a boring rightoid agendaposter
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You wouldn't know fun if it gave you monkeypox.
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@Aevann BIPOC negro
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1 & 2 seem like meaningless gestures. If you increase costs on those companies, then you'll get less quality, so maybe it's good if social media becomes so miserable that less will use it. Or they may shift to a subscription model that locks features away from the free riders.
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Snapshots:
archive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
ghostarchive.org (click to archive)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32771071:
archive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
ghostarchive.org (click to archive)
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Its over for you, snaps.
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Unironically we need a data tax of $.02/mb for first 30 days, $.10/mb after 30 days, and $.20/mb after 2 years.
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Internet and mobile phones becoming cheap and widely accessible is responsible for the current state of things.
As usual, the poors ruin everything their get their mitts on.
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The gov doesn't own, operate or maintain internet infrastructure, what would the justification for that tax look like?
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Like this paypig.
Pay or get shot LMAO.
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Pretty convincing ngl
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All US citizens are gov't property, and the CIA is sad that big tech stole their schtick .
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The government literally made the internet but ok sweaty
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Invention and implementation aren't the same thing, hon
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When has that stopped them before?
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Wow, the attendees are a collection of turboghouls.
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I am going to become the Joker.
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Disagree with the 230 shit but data gathering, child protection, and Amazon needs split up. Also all sites should have an 'opt in to the algorithm' so you don't create mindless attention scrolls.
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Yeah I liked most of what I read but I think the real concern is how they go about implementing it, because I doubt it will be as even handed and reasonable as this overview sounds.
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Yep unless one of the people in the group is EFF I don't trust it. Bunch of "I left a FAANG a year ago to work for the govt" mfers
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Do they actually have examples of this happening?
The problematic algorithms I'm familiar with are the ones that try to keep users as angry as possible so they'll "engage" more with content.
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Insurances and job and other kinds of digital adversiment can be targeted on certain races or age groups, so the people you dont want , but cannot legally discriminate against, wont even see it.
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Fcae ID algos comparing BIPOC to gorillas and chimps need to be sent to sensitivity training to dechud it
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which in practice means "implement explicit discrimination if non-discrimination doesn't yield equality of outcome"
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Wasnt this a rightoid talking point?
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Its a uniparty talking point that was shoved onto a rightoid president because it was relevantly opportune time and now again to the puppet.
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The Senator from MBNA is a rightoid? Say it aint so!
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The left wants to sue platforms for not taking down inconvenient posts. In their preferred world, Keffals would be able to sue the NZ Ag. Soc. for keeping records of the catboy ranch.
The right wants to sue platforms for not being a neutral public square. In their preferred world, Trump would be able to sue Twitter for having had enough of his nonsense.
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Pretty much. The left sees 230 as a problem because it makes it legal to host wrongthink instead of forcing everyone into the expected circlejerk. The right hates 230 because in practice sites like Reddit are already partisan and so remove all rightoid content to force a circlejerk.
So the left hates 230's purpose, the right hates 230 in practice.
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but it's still going to happen because all that rich people care about is keeping the poors infighting. just don't be poor.
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Rightoids can't decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing because it means alex jones can sue twitter but it also means schizos can sue their sites.
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Thas def a bad thing for rightoids
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Its a bad thing for the site owners like null who whine about it all the time. It's a good thing for posters because presumably the bigger sites are going to be more selective and careful about moderation
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I dunno if more moderation is a good thing for anybody. It's just gonna make existing moderation more insufferable.
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Its not more moderation though necessarily because theyre actually held accountable for the moderation decisions in either direction.
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Theoretically I just don't see this sort of stuff ever turning favorably to users. Rightoids could point at sites and go "You cant ban me you are a platform not a publisher!!" and all the platforms would just say im a publisher and moderate harder to stop stochastic terrorism
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So will we see an end to the Powerjanny-12 (PJ-12), yes or no?
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Dropping the word you’ll get arrested lamo
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Drumpf vindicated.
They're private companies, sweaty. People can stop using them if they're so concerned about their effects.
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Does that mean the government will stop spying on us?
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This is what Trump and rightiods wanted. Either way this is going to be a shit show.
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Wow look at that. Not a single point about privacy. Neat.
I hate the dems so much it's unreal. Hate the repubs too.
Edit: I'm an actual who somehow skipped the first point. fwiw I don't consider the kids thing privacy related, more like "only brainwash kids with approved messages".
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At least two points about privacy are mentioned.
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We are sending our finest.
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English, motherlover, can you read it.
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Apparently not. Stop being so ableist.
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Based radical centrism. Foids cant kill their babies anymore, chuds cant bully vulnerable minorities with cyberslurs. All is balanced.
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What will happen to rdrama when they make clocking (misgendering) illegal?
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That would invalidate 1A and the American digital infrastructure would have long since gone up in flames from the conflict this immediately led to.
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you still think burgers would rise up for something? I've been so disillusioned, it's like some people are cheering this shit on
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Not usually, no, but repealing 1A would encompass freedom of religion as well. I don’t think burgers are remotely genuinely religious, but I do think that enough Southerner schismatics would kick it off over that.
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That's a good point, a lot of wars have started over religious drama. I can see that being what finally gets burgercels off the couch, bringing the militia LARP to irl shit
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Please :( I just want an excuse to fight and die in a holy war and we don’t seem to have any imminent desire to retake Constantinople
I need this
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I’m holding out for a chance to take a shot at retconning Revelation and taking out the Antichrist myself
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Be the change you want to see, start the Knights Hospitaller Part 2 but instead of tending to the injured, work in psych wards and explain to schizos that we must drive the saracens out of the holy city posthaste
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The thing about child protection seems weird as well, I don't see how they'll achieve it without some sort of identify verification. Parent enabled child protection modes have been avaliable for a while so I doubt that's what they're talking about
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if you put your youtube into 'kids' mode nothing should be able to get into it that isn't vetted for kids. remember the weird af superhero & elsa shit youtubers were spamming into the kids section for monetized views? kids content should also not be monetizable by views.
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I never gave this point any thought, why the frick isn't it like that?
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Cause money
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That's literally how it's always worked. That's 100% why every thing from the Lone Ranger radio show to Howdy Doody to every Saturday morning cartoon exists at all. All that's just a means to get kids to see ads.
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and there are advertising laws for ads directed at kids. my bigger complaint though is shit content thats made explicitly to draw their attention.
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Maybe for Bongs and shitty Bong adjacent places, but not anywhere that counts. Most places have fake butt industry-based voluntary regulatory bodies, like the MPAA setting movie ratings for example. The Children's TV Act, the closest thing in the US, basically stopped shit like GI Joe from having ads for GI Joe figures and non disclosed in-show ads. The content of ads wasn't affected.
And literally all kids programming of any medium is to draw their attention, that's the fricking point. So they can sell ads based on having someone's attention.
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Lmao this is what rightoids were trying to get DDR to do because muh deplatforming
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Watch the media be soft peepeeed about criticizing this because it's coming from blue team.
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This wont even be mentioned by the media because its only something termally online autismos care about
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It's the selective enforcement that really pisses me off.
Pardon me, I'll be right back.
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NEDPOSTING
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because of this post carp has been sentenced to 20 years of gay buttrape in prison
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Pic unrelated
...right?
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Hi @JohnDevereaux,
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In minecraft right? in minecraft right?
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Jesse, what the frick mine are you crafting
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Where ya goin neighborino
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Just going to meet with some students at Kent State god bless em
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Now don’t you go widdly-worrying about it
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Null has explicitly stated that Section 230 will be the thing that will finally bring the Farms down, Trump should have been the lolcow who successfully shut down the farms tho.
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All this means in these words is that large platforms like reddit and twitter will actually have to address their groomer and violent threat problem, it says nothing about wrong think. Platforms will still probably interpret it as meaning they have to remove anything vaguely problematic though, which is a way this could go wrong, but social media companies have never been good. Most users of this site probably only dislike this because Biden authorized it rather than Trump, and because of the Kiwifarms situation.
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Wouldn't this just result in a further push for countries to build their own internet?
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That has little to do with other countries.
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How so, if they pass laws that influence the entire internet structure and the internet is mostly American then wouldn't this law influence the entire world?
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This is an American law that would affect webhosts within American jurisdiction. It might motivate companies to relocate their servers to other countries, but it wouldn't require other countries to "build their own internet".
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thanks for clarifying,
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That’s it, the internet as we know it is over.
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cause we keep letting the government regulate speech yo
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I just want to remind the Government’s of Russia and China that I have always been an admirer of Putin and President Xi. May rDrama’s tutelage under them be long and prosperous.
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surely China and Russia will not try to exert influence on big sites hosted there
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That's exactly what I said tho, there will be no big sites hosted there, only ones small enough to fly under the radar. It's perfect. Small forums survive, generational-mind-destroying social media doesn't
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:(
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It already was over. Everything fun has been replaced with advertising and social media.
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the internet follows american laws
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they specify "large tech platforms" but don't go into detail about how they'd make sure this doesn't frick over smaller websites. Really makes you
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It was never about large tech platforms aside from legally compelling them to take down wrongthink even harder. It’s entirely to keep opposing platforms from rising.
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But they mentioned preventing sexual exploitation of minors. That'll be a good thing that will happen!
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it won't. people in power are pedos, and anyone who gets into power automatically becomes a p-do.
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