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LainkeyKong gnu/bsd :marseypomni2: LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH :marseylain:  2yr ago (github.com) 903 thread views #143657

The only usable Unix shell :smackfish: bought into the Rust meme :marseyrave: :marseytrans2: (and that’s a good thing! :marseywholesome:)

https://github.com/fish-shell/fish-shell/pull/9512
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Orange Site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34588340

Some funny C++ sperg at the bottom :marseyseethe: :marseylaugh:

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> One of the common refrains is that the Rust community pushes people into doing these sorts of things.

Not the person you asked, but I've never seen anyone claim this happens before.

:marseylaughpoundfist:

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That never happens

No one even claims that ever happens

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imagine having preferences over :marseygiveup: what :marseypregunta: you type computer :marseylaptoppizzashill: words :marseylongpost: into lmao :marseylaughwith:

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oh you pinned it to dunk on me :marseygiveup:

capitalization and position insensitive auto-complete should be a default everywhere.

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nah

the other posts were like nearly a day old on the front page :marsey404:

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I still use bash because I dont care what the frick my shell is as long as it works.

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I use it because I'm just gonna use Python for anything that's too complicated to be done simply in bash.

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I don’t care what you say, zsh is greatly superior to bash and fish users are just deliberately obtuse and contrarian. There are no other usable shells.

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obtuse and contrarian? neighbor it's in your repos.

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It also breaks all of the scripts your team might have created to improve productivity. At least with zsh you can usually fix them with a couple of lines, but fish is so completely out there that any sort of automation someone writes to work with bash needs to be completely rewritten.

The said, it’s probably the best shell for rdrama users because of how neurodivergently obtuse and contrarian it is. I actually do like fish btw, I just don’t have time to rewrite every script my team has ever touched to be compatible.

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@carpathianflorist

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maybe u missed the memo but we don't play w/ carp anymore

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:marseysad:

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brother, just run bash script.sh, the scripts should be declaring #!/usr/bin/env bash in the first place.

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The issue is that my team (and probably a lot of others) has a bunch of little functions that you can use to do day to day tasks specific to the team. We have some script files that declare a bunch of these and assume you’re using bash (most work with zsh). e.g. I can just run “start_test_environment” or whatever instead of setting one up manually.

I don’t know a way to have those execute with bash, but I’ll be pretty happy if someone here has easy way to do this. It’s annoying to have to jump into a different shell to run one command like this.

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Ohh yeah if you're talking about build functions I can't help you there. I thought you were talking build scripts.

I used zsh for years before fish but I'm stuck on Windows for work :marseyitsover: so it doesn't matter what shell I'm using on my desktop or homelab.

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I'm stuck on Windows for work

:marseykneel:

I used fish a lot in grad school, but once I got a job I went back to zsh because I needed something close to what non-neurodivergent people use (my coworkers still think my setup is pretty neurodivergent though). Honestly with the right plugins it's better than fish anyway, in my opinion. fish does a lot of cool stuff, but you can get most of the same features in zsh with better compatibility if you have the right setup.

That said, I never really perfected my fish setup like I have my zsh setup. Maybe I will try it again one day.

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Yeah I haven't daily'd Windows since like 2012 either so I think my manager thinks I'm retarded ("What do you mean the file extension is significant??").

I had a decent zsh setup but it required oh-my-zsh during a :marseytinfoil2: phase and I felt requiring a bunch of random GitHub scripts for my shell. Switched to fish and been using that since. I think we're on the same page that bash is pretty bleh.

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More comments

>I'm stuck on Windows for work

>makes serious critical reply to a systems scripting language

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they have to nerf my powers.

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Omg how insufferable are you to work with?

Whine whine whine the whole time.

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That’s a lot of typing for I’ve touched 3 boobs in my life I didn’t pay for

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Touching a pair counts as 2 boobs right?

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It's actually 4, thank you very much :coomer:

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also I recommend using this https://github.com/koalaman/shellcheck

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That's pretty cool, thanks man

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ZSH is great because it's incremental and backwards compatible where it matters. C++ -> Rust is a massive commitment these junior devs throw around with minor excuses like having to adapt to one shitty wchar_t C++ type that differs cross platform. It shows the quality of the programmers replying and getting upvoted.

The story has to be 100x stronger than even some seriously annoying but singular inconvenience. A whole new language will bring 1000x new minor problems that are 1-10x as bad. After that IRL experienace they'd love to have wchar_t as the actual problem vs the shit they'll bring on with a new language + set of libraries.

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:#marseywholesometrans:

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Worth every dramapenny :marseywholesometrans:

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New favorite marsey! :marseywholesometrans:

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Being written in Rust will help fish continue to be perceived as modern and relevant.

:marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd: :marseynerd:

:marseyeyeroll: ho my GOD we should kill him

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cope irrelevant old neighbor

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stfu newstrag

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keep yourself safe old man

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ur mascot is a crab bc all ur devs have aids

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I can't even code :marseysmoothbrain:

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same lol I only do webdev :marseysmoothbrain:

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:marseysmoothbrain!#: 🤝 :marseysmoothbrain#:

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KILL THE FISH :marseysrdine2:

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they rushed from the grooming phase to the bullying phase too quickly IMO

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Is this the right thread :marseyconfused:

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only usable unix shell

that title belongs to Powershell for Linux

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It seems only Windowcels who haven't had good shells like it. I do like it's designed from first principles - even if being overly verbose.

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I had to daily drive linux for a while and grew to hate bash quickly. Powershell does the job, has the bells and whistles, and it’s great for scripting

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Ah, yeah if you have a .NET based brain that's fair. That shipped sailed for me and I dream in pipes and text :marseyitsover:

bash is butt if you don't modify it.

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what does any of this even mean

WHY ARE SO MANY OF YOU SUCH FRICKIN' NERDS

![](https://media.giphy.com/media/A9KfKenpqNDfa/giphy.webp)

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Bash? Rust?

These guys better start making sense or I'm gonna Bash their heads in with a Rusty hammer

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>Not a xonsh chad

:#marseydisagree:

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:marseythinkorino: Looks neat. How slow is it, being python?

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It's a shell neighbor chill

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Wasn’t an attack honestly curious, thanks for the loop.

I’ve found some alternative shells to be noticeably slower which becomes annoying with how much I use them.

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Ok, I will respond with extreme hostility to any perceived attack on technology I installed in past month on orange site or /g/'s recommendation

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Uhhh, based???

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:marseykingcrown#:

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lol thanks @justcool393 for the pin! :marseybased:

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of course! :)

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I'm sure /g/ will love it. The bait has been planted.

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get a real shell

noooo my shell needs to be POSIX compliant and have butt usability :marseysoycry:

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Someone inform me on Rust

I heard that the whole safety thing they have a girldick boner for is basically the same as if C++ enforced a usage pattern of C++11 smart pointers (not neurodivergentally the same, basically the same)

My reading of Wikipedia is not inconsistent with this, is this how it is?

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No, there are real practical differences. C++ smart pointers aren't good enough, and many items in c++ that are introduced for memory safety reasons turn out to be horrible, for instance string views.

Tbh the benefit of rust isn't it's memory safety, it's just how much better it is to develop with. There's no comparison in c++ with cargo, and the borrow checker is extremely handy after the initial hurdle.

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Yeah I'm not codecel enough to explain that but my understanding is the tooling around Rust and Rust getting things right the first time is a big boon.

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There are tradeoffs in terms of performance too; c++ has a better story with stack call memory usage, and it tends to use less memcpy's under the hood currently. On the other hand, rust allows functions like this (pretend it's not small enough to be inlined) to be optimised by the compiler where languages without a borrow checker simply cannot do so:

void func(int &x, int &y) {
    x += y;
    x += y;
}

I strongly, strongly suspect that for general development performance it's incredibly unlikely that in the future Rust won't be faster than C/C++ unless new keywords/lifetimes are added into the respective specs. Given the development velocity of C++20, this seems unlikely at best.

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I'm not actually a codecel but Rust makes you write code and WILL NOT COMPILE if you're not memory safe.

If you're codecel enough to read up on C++11 I assume you would understand what that entails better than me.

EDIT: I should also point out the language made tooling a number one priority like Go. Which is very important for modern languages.

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>If you're codecel enough to read up on C++11 I assume you would understand what that entails better than me.

For example in a memory-unsafe language like C, if you have a null pointer and you try to dereference it, the CPU will fault and the OS will send SIGSEGV to your program. If your program doesn't have a buffer saved to longjmp() back to, that's it, you're crashing, even if you write a SIGSEGV handler it can't return.

In a memory-safe language like Java, if you have a null reference and try to dereference it, the Java runtime will detect this and cause your program to throw a NullPointerException. This is one way it's safer, the CPU and OS don't know you fucked up. But if you don't have code to catch NullPointerException, that's it, you're crashing. But writing the handler is easy, you just say catch (NullPointerException e) {} and your NPE errors messages go away.

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:marseyreading#:

Thanks for the tips, yeah my understanding is Rust would catch all that at compile time.

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But this github page has nothing to do with GNU Bash :marseyconfused:

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fish just has sane defaults.

as I posted below case and position insensitive auto-complete should be used by any shell.

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Are these suggestions serious????

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I think they're very tongue and cheek.

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>not zsh

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zsh is even more soy than fish

i have never encountered a zsh user that wasnt a manchild

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Anyone who cares about their shell is an irredeemable nerd, just use bash like God intended

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ehhh they arent completely interchangeable, depeding on ur use case the choice of shell does matter. but 99% of the time using anything other than bash is unnecessary

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C++ is becoming a legacy language and finding contributors in the future will become difficult

Bait, but this is going to be Rus:marseytrain2: dogma within the next two years

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>c++ legacy

Time to finally learn c++ to rake in the legacy maintenance neetbux

:marseyantiwork:

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Having said all that, I worry that rushing any part of this could be a death knell for the project. A quality rewrite (or port) takes time, on the magnitude of years rather than days.

Having recently ported a mid-size project from Javascript + jQuery to Typescript + Vue 3 (and countless other projects from more straight forward one-to-one languages/frameworks) I 100% agree. My job was 10x easier than porting a whole thing from C++->Rust (yes I know enough Rust and C++ to say this).

You can always bet software devs will underestimate how long this will take by years - most of the gains being vague developer happiness stuff that quickly gets trumped by a mountain of complexity which out numbers the short-term benefits. If this isn't an incremental transition that can support the old C++ source code it will never happen.

It will simply be a new project that 10% of the userbase AND devs will use, then it will have a high risk of dying out unless there's hardcore buy in with the original team + userbase.

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Fish isnt even postix complient, literally just use bash my dude

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bad user experience

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what could you ask for, man tells you flags, you tab complete and it runs commands. do you need a rainbow in your cmd prompt to bloat up your system for your fried dopamine receptors?

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the main one is case insensitive and position insensitive autocomplete.

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🤓🤓 heres an argument 4 u bud: both sides r massive cute twinks 👌😂[1][2]

Citations:

  1. True (2016)

  2. Fact (1981)

lmao @ u 👈👈👈 You were put down, in the future please refrain from discussing subjects you have no education in

Snapshots:

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