Learntocode bros, is it really that bad out there?

https://x.com/alz_zyd_/status/1839436181723021415

Is the well running dry?

71
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Makes me happy to have my shitty office legacy code-cel job, I could be one of these loser :marseyxd:

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Looks like it's time to write another Factory, :marseyboomer: sips

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99% of the industry is an butt kissing farce that serves little actual societal purpose. tho investorcels probably won't realize this as they'd need to realize their redundancy as well, so there's still some time yet.

chatgpt isn't ur greatest threat, it's people realizing that small software coops would serve us far better in the long run than bloated investor driven corps that invariably enshitify their products ... but there's still some time yet before any significant amount of people catch on to this.

i just did a job hunt for a senior position w/ about 8 yoe and it's taken me 2-3 mo to have a few offers on the table, about the same time it took me to find a L4 mid position 3 years ago.

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Me having quit my tech job a few months ago to pursue a meme career. :marseysweating: I really hope this works out or I may be screwed. I had 1 promo and 3 yoe as a codecel tho, so maybe I'd be okay?

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I quit and founded a company. Things are going pretty well but it's in a volatile industry so I'm just working like a slave so I have enough savings if everything goes tits up

:#marseyscaredearthquake:

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I feel you brother. :marseyknowthatfeelbro: my revenue also fluctuates wildly, :marseyitsoverwereback: number 1 thing I miss from my salaried codecel job.

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I miss busting my manager's balls when asking for a raise so much it's unreal. I'm terrified my single hire will learn his value because I've invested a lot in him and he's smart as frick. It's only a matter of time until he reads that one Patrick McKenzie blog and fricks me.

:marseyconcern#ed:

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This is not to pick on you but your comment is a microcosm of why the industry is fricked right now.

You took on a junior programmer and trained them until they are skilled and now you dread seeing them jump ship.

Other companies just never hire juniors anymore because training them costs money and time. They just have bidding war on senior devs

I'm not sure what the solution is. I wish you success on your business though. :marseycheerup:

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What the the chaebols do.

Look for talents in high school and sign them to a low-paying prestige contract to pay for their college and indenture them to the company for a decade after. But since each chaebols have their own system and culture those frickers basically cant leave at that point because they have been groomed to be specialized and damaged goods a key that only works at their original chaebol and no other chaebol.

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Makes me think of the old Japanese loyalty to the corporation system

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Vested equity and refundable bonuses probably. Lock people in for 3 years min

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Which one? the don't call yourself a programmer one?

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I will never stop being a salarycel fr

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You really learn to love progressive tax rates :marseythumbsup:

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Its pretty brutal out there right now, brother :^(

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Well hopefully my meme job is works out then lol.

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Keep sigma grinding

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Manifest your destiny

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what kind of memes do you make?

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What's your meme job? :marseyviewerstare:

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He's obviously a heterosexual tiktoker.

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I would have held out for a severance but I heard severance packages are getting reaaaal barebones lately.

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Unfortunately I don't think that would have happened. 3 other people left the team around the same time I did. I was also frequently interacting with customers as third level support and was like the only person with knowledge on some parts of the product. One dude on my team had been intentionally slacking for like the entire time I worked there and he was never fired and eventually just left on his own shortly before I did. If I screwed stuff up intentionally I think I would have just been fired.

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3yoe is a bit low tbh, should ideally be 5+ to be safe.

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Maybe I should start helping my friend with his indie game stuff so I can have something codecel wise on my resume for this block of time if I do have to go back to a normie job lol.

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I graduated in 2019 with a CS degree and spent 2 years being a NEET and then somehow swindled a career as a business analyst.

If I graduated this year I'd probably just fricking kill myself LOL

I still dream about quitting my wage slave drop and becoming a fashion designer, pulling a goth brandy mellville and only making dark clothes for skinny women

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1727508887367698.webp

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Petite anime lover is coming out of the closet now that it's been revealed who it is.

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They were hiring anyone in 2021

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Is it fun working as BA?

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Haven't several large companies in silicon valley laid off hundreds or thousands of workers over the past year, and many are moving out of state?

Of course tech bros with no work experience aren't getting jobs. The companies that had throwaway departments to hire them don't exist anymore, and those that do are getting flooded with applications.

Wonder who they'll choose :marseyhmm:. The fresh college grad making typos on his phone and crying on "the Reddit app", or the senior dev who at least knows how to spellcheck, Google, and search StackOverflow for long-forgotten code.

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Can some codecel tell a codelet exactly why we need so much code being written? Nothing seems to be really changing over the 2020s, the technical infrastructure has all been built from what I can tell. All the chatting apps are years old at this point and stable, the doordash food apps are built and stable. I don't know what's going on in business but I'm willing to bet it's similar to the consumer side, not much shit is changing. It's not like 1990-2017 where literally every 3 years was a total advance and everyone had to play catch up. Even the internet and online space seems to have experienced technological stagnation from what I can gather.

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Nothing seems to be really changing over the 2020s, the technical infrastructure has all been built from what I can tell

Most companies are still built around Excel spreadsheets. Most major industries are built on ancient infrastructure. There's always coding to be done.

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There's always coding to be done.

Doesn't the fact that it can be duplicated mean that's not true? It's not like being an electrican where there's a new building to wire, or a goyslop cook when there's another Nicocado to deathfat :marseychonker2:. Surely one day, in ten, twenty, thirty years time it'll be like "that's enough, shit's good enough now".

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It's currently exactly like putting the wires in a new building because software isn't generic over business rules

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Coding isn't at the stage yet where drag and drop works for most solutions. You still need the monkeys to glue it together. Maybe in the future

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Ancient infrastructure is a funny one because I know people with lackluster codecel-adjacent degrees who got into programs to maintain that code. You'll get training for like 3 months on how to write code for 40 year old linear accelerators and shit in COBOL.

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Not everything is consumer facing. B2B is huge but you'll never see it unless you've worked in the industry. There's huge pressure to iterate quickly, automate processes, find engineers who can maintain these systems

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Stuff just breaks over time - standing still is just falling backwards, incurring tech debt. Even maintaining a functioning project for the next API version, browser issue, react upgrade, mobile OS version, etc. take quite a lot of man-hours.

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lol this is one of the biggest memes in the computing industry. stuff doesn't "just break".

new bugs, by definition cannot be created unless there are changes to code (generally the additon of features).

What you're describing is the same except the features are added by a dependency.

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new bugs, by definition cannot be created unless there are changes to code

Or updates from windows, SQL database, and web browsers.

>Dude, just run Windows XP and Firefox 9 forever

Insurance companies require all hardware to be modern in order to be covered.

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Because software companies like microsoft and mozilla do not just fix bugs, they fix bugs while adding new features in the same update, forcing users to constantly jump to the next.

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Insurance companies require all hardware to be modern in order to be covered.

So annoying. Patching is a constant thing here along with switching out hardware every 4-5 years. Everything needs a support contract but management doesn't understand how open source works so they think there aren't support contracts for things like postgres.

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requirements change all the time, it's adapt or die.

your UI sucks

an exploit was found

security issues

PII laws changed

user demands changed

you're making less money than before

a new technology or methodology was invented

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>your UI suck

Your UI doesn't suck. If you make a good UI in the first place, it is timeless. this is largely copium from designers. Once the UI design reaches a certain level, any changes you make decrease its quality. UI changes largely have to do with appealing to "fashionable" design trends.

>an exploit was found

Holy frick you are a genius. Where do you think vulnerabilities come from? If you have a static piece of code and you don't add any features to it, do you really think you can just keep finding vulnerabilities in it forever? If you just patch vulnerabilities eventually you will reach a bug-free state (although it will be impossible to know when you've reached it).

There is a difference between discovering/adding new bugs and discovering latent bugs. and the fact that developers dont intuitively understand this is insane, its like the doublethink that holds up the whole industry

>a new technology or methodology was invented

how often are we experiencing 2070 paradigm shifts really to justify constantly updating software to be more complex

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Have you seen the state of security in Windows XP?

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17275498887642868.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17275498889492867.webp

How's this for timeless design?

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1727549888369407.webp

Time and hardware constraints, consumer expectations. Time to market. I don't think you realize the number of cogs needed to bring a product to market or ensure its relevance. There's a reason Encarta and Netscape exited the public lexicon a generation ago and no one cared. Adapt or die.

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Win95 had great UI, they actually put thought into its design and recognized contrast is a thing. I have to use 11 for work and it is a usability nightmare, literal slop churned out with no regard for consistency or readability. Something as simple as saving an Excel file is a fugly maze of big icons. If you're going to copy MacOS at least make it look good Microshaft.

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So you're saying that if microsoft had hired you twenty years ago, windows would be better today?

But also there is no reason to hire codecels

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r-slurred reply, servers get hit with bot traffic and ooms- it breaks

log files don't get cleaned up and servers fill up

hardware starts failing and needs migration

Database runs at 99% CPU because there's more users and very inefficient query

Sure, changes are the main reason, but shit breaks on its on all the time.

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None of that is "just breaking", you wrote and deployed broken things.

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And I'll do it again

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Flaws of the client-server model.

If hardware fails, replace it so what. has nothing to do with software development.

A bit-flip is not the same thing as a bug. You don't pay developers to solve one-off issues, you pay them to solve systematic issues. And you cannot solve systematic issues forever without constantly changing the system.

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A big thing these days is swapping over to microservices. That's a whole lot of code. My company still uses a computer from the 80s as their database server

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My employer still leases an A/S 400. theyve been "getting off it" for 4+ yeats

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Lmbo, microservices are a meme and most places shouldn't bother. Same with k8s and shit.

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I don't know what's going on in business but I'm willing to bet it's similar to the consumer side, not much shit is changing.

On the business side, not much shit is changing but lots and lots of stuff is still done in a really archaic way. My current job is software to replace paper forms and lots of companies still using the paper version. Or even companies that still use Excel for everything rather than using bespoke software that's better integrated/easier to use. There's so many old business practices that can be digitized and improved upon.

Code itself hasn't advanced much but it doesn't have to, if we were still using C there'd still be plenty of software to write.

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Whats wrong with excel?

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It sucks for syncing data, it's slow in comparison to a database, etc.

Some people are moving to database-backed sheets multiple people can work on and software can query.

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It never even began for excels

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Archaic as frick. It's a step above pen and paper but that's it. Native support sucks for any sort of data analysis or sharing data or cleaning, or really anything more advanced than a high school level. Atm, that's good enough in 70% of industries because management might as well have a high school education, but boomers are finally aging out.

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He don't know

:#marseyxd:

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Excel gets you super far until it doesn't.

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At least from an embedded perspective, hardware is still advancing and that typically needs new code to support it. Greater power efficiency might mean a new scheduler is needed, newer/faster devices means new drivers, all that good stuff. There's a lot of stuff going on up the stack that sometimes obfuscates this from the end user unfortunately, so it isn't immediately obvious to a lot of people.

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Yeah the tech market has been absolutely nuked. Getting hired as a fresh grad in any role is impossible, because you're competing with massively overqualified people with 10 years experience who are desperately trying to find any role they can after being laid off twice - and even they won't get it. There's like 1 position per major tech company a year now. Hiring is completely shut down and rolling layoffs are dropping more and more people into the desperate job market

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Companies with a real product sometimes need devs too

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Hope you enjoyed your six fig work from home job optimizing porn delivery anon, it's time to build missiles for the suits

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The good old days of 500k tc wfh with no expectations are gone forever :(

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berkeley? go to a real school that actually takes an SAT score.

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Have you considered

1. Berkeleycels and other prodigious-maxed universities are putting out HR nightmares that may understand automata theory and can write quicksort in their sleep but have absolutely no ability to write useful code for anyone but a professor.

2. 'Frick off, we're full' -FAANG

3. 'No we aren't going to pay an intern 6 figures to write useless code because he got a high score.' -All the other companies

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Everyone has learnt to code. It's no longer a high value skill especially considering most coding is very simple any idiot can do it.

Now you have an oversaturated field. Why hire a junior who did 4 years a MIT when he will have the same responsibility as Cletus who did a 4 week boot camp. Both will take ages to train because they don't know even know GIT and once they become mid they will leave. So why hire either?

Then you have all these mids. Turns out if the market is bad enough they'll work for junior wages. There's no job a mid can't do that a junior can't do.

Plus there's only so many web pages to make. If you want a real black pill look how few jobs need C or C++. You have to learn languages that are so simple they're basically word, like Python, React, Koitlin or C#. These fake languages have lowered the barriers to entry too much

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People aren't educated enough to get into entry level jobs, even in tech.

Sadly the US still hasn't figured out that apprenticeships are also a smart thing to have for high skilled jobs.

Oh well!

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They know but the industry is so messed up that staying at a company more than 3 years is a red flag to tech guys. There's no incentive to train entry-level people of they just leave and the industry is to polluted with r-slurs that HR and hiring managers end up skipping over a lot of competent people while trudging through sexy Indian dude-tier resumes.

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staying at a company more than 3 years is a red flag to tech guys

Maybe in CA. The rest of the US doesn't work like Silicon Valley.

There's no incentive to train entry-level people

There is. You pay them less.

I think you're r-slurred and a sexy Indian dude.

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The rest of the US doesn't work like Silicon Valley.

Even on the east coast, this exists in tech companies.

You pay them less.

The companies don't see it like that. They'd rather hire a sexy Indian dude than train an entry level person.

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That's not how any of that works.

How long have you been in the industry?

3 years after college?

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I'm so glad I have a real degree and not some bullshit computer language lol

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Heck yeah liberal arts degree doing numbers :platyrich:

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Yea I make more as a DEI consultant than most of the codecels I sexually harass

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No one on rDrama has a real job lmaooo

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>he hasn't seen the dramadoxx

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