Those are some top tier motorcycle troops russia's got pic.twitter.com/Mp4vKOzH9N

— BroSINT 69™ (@osint_69) November 4, 2024

They should give the Russian ones to Ukraine.

In exchange for cheap drones!

Ukraine will become a cheap drone maker exporter power house

Ukraine actually tried to convince Israel to help bolster their defence in exchange for drones but Israel said no (in a pretty condescending way too from what I can remember)

They should give these weapons to Ukraine so they can be sent back to Russia properly!

After that drone attack that killed four IDF soldiers Ukraine tried again, saying that they made drones specifically to combat the iranian ones and they could offer them (and what they learned fighting iranian drones) to Israel. Including a 'I told you so' too. I'm not sure if Israel even bothered to respond to that.

Using captured weapons of your enemy against former master is time honored tradition in war.

I too would like to see these weapons given to Ukraine but if Israel want to use it for their own purpose, they have the final say.

Israel is in the middle of fighting Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran. They should probably keep their weapons.

None of which will use tanks against Israel. Trade them for some air launched missiles, Ukraine can't use those

Israel uses a lot of ATGMs even if it does not face tanks, because it uses those against buildings, defensive positions, and infantry in general. Yes, these are primarily against tanks, but these missiles are multi-purpose.

From whom? Ukraine is not going to hand over any air-to-ground missiles and why would Israel need any of their air-to-air missiles?

From the us obviously

Israel clearly is not having any difficulties in getting bombs from the US, and Israel primarily uses its own developed air-launched missiles (ROCKS, Golden Horizon, Air LORA). In fact, it is not known to have expressed any interest in the air-launched cruise missiles that the US possesses nor has it openly tried to develop any (as opposed to ALBMs).

The most valuable thing the US could offer is another THAAD battery, but that is unlikely due to the severe shortage of them.

>Israel clearly is not having any difficulties in getting bombs from the US

Sure, the 'gib ukraine' redditors can be annoying but you don't have to go straight for the throat like that

Give it to Ukraine! The irony of suppling the enemy of Russia with Russian weapons captured from Iranian backed terrorists is just too good to give up on..

Great idea !

Israel is in the middle of fighting Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran. They should probably keep their weapons considering everyone is threatening to stop supplying them.

But none of those use tanks against Israel.

AT units work great on bunkers and buildings.

Yes, but the relative value would be much higher to Ukraine, which means if you involve enough allies in the wheedling and dealing, you can probably provide Israel with a few things it really needs, take the lot of things it sorta needs, and provide the latter to a Ukraine that really needs.

Especially since the US can more easily provide Israel with symbolic or physical assistance than it can generate brand new Ukraine aid. But Im not a professional wheedler and dealer. So I could be wrong

Ukraines deficiencies are mostly in manpower and air defense. Their anti tank capabilities are routinely sufficient to gut Russian armored attacks. The West can provide antitank weapons, and does in good number.

Like I said, I could be wrong. My amateurish guess was that while anti-tank may not be Ukraine's most pressing need, it fell even lower on Israel's list, and that anti-tank is one of those things you can never have too much of on a front line the size of Ukraine. I just hope that the weapons are used to their maximum efficiency for some country fighting terrorism, either Ukraine or Israel

>Yes, but the relative value would be much higher to Ukraine

: Look Israel, Ukraine just needs those more, ok?

The two largest arms suppliers for Israel are the US and Germany (together c. 99% of arms imports) and both are continuously delivering weapons, and others would not provide all that much short-term value to the IDF. For example, Israel needs missile interceptors that it produces together with the US already, and jets / helicopters / tankers that it is buying from the US, or submarines from Germany.

Moreover, various countries that could deliver weapons are calling for arms boycotts of Israel (UK, France, Italy, Canada, and more).

If anything, many of these countries and more (e.g. Netherlands) benefit a lot more from arms imports from Israel than them providing substantial arms exports to Israel.

That realistically leaves US weapons in exchange for ATGMs to Ukraine - however, Israel clearly has no issue receiving weapons from the US in the first place.

yes, you are correct, I was already feeling that the main flaw in my logic was that any assistance the US could provide for Israel, it already is providing, which perhaps limits wheedling potential. In summary though, as I said in another comment, I just hope they are used to their max efficiency in taking down terrorists of one variety or another

Edit: am I being downmarseyd for admitting I could be wrong? Haha. Too beta?

>Israel clearly has no issue receiving weapons from the US

Someone was just complaining on twitter yesterday that America is selling Black Hawks to every country aside from Ukraine, which is specifically banned from the program (even if they pay for it). Rubbing it in that Israel can get as many weapons from US as it wants whenever it wants is pretty mean actually

I don't know if they are still fighting the Houthis. The Houthis suddenly announced that they were willing to accept the peace and intervention deal proposed by Saudi Arabia 5 years ago. I guess the leaders realised that Hamas is basically gone, Hezbollah is getting its teeth kicked in and Iran isn't doing so well, and that once Hamas or Hezbollah is fully destroyed, Israel will be able to turn their attention to the Houthis.

Which, IIRC, involves the fighting ending, the Houthis disarming and working to help stabilise Yemen and start working towards democratic elections.

Edit to change "Sudan" to "Yemen". Got the country wrong.

Maybe. But that doesn't mean you give weapons away.

: Come on Israel, you're only fighting on three fronts not four!

Plenty of Israelis and Ukrainian Jews in Israel would love that, but as long as Bibi is in power and as long as Iran doing their darnest to disrupt the attention the world has to give to the russian invasion and to hurt Israel as much as they can, there won't be much that Israel can do for Ukraine for now.

Hopefully Israel can get rid of Bibi soon and eradicate both Hamas and Hezbollah (or as close as can be), maybe then there will be enough attention brought back to Ukraine.

How this is Bibi's fault?

Ukraine needs them more just saying

I agree

Even /r/military joined the fun!

Send them to Ukraine 🇺🇦!!!!!!

Anyway, apparently Ukraine wants something similar to the Iron Dome and Israel either doesn't want to take the time to help Ukraine set it up or doesn't want to share it's secrets, which is one of the reasons it doesn't want to negotiate with Ukraine. The other reason being not wanting to get into a slapfight with Russia

I heard the idea floated around of shipping them to Ukraine.

I prefer that, with so much Russian weaponry captured it would be justified to use it on them, teach them a small lesson about the consequences of arming our enemies.

Plus if I'm not mistaken Ukrainians are already trained on Russian weapons, because they're basically still Soviet weapons. But I'm not an expert on this and maybe this doesn't apply to the antitank weapons.

An this is from /r/israel

According to the reports mentioned in the article (I think they first appeared in Israel Hayom), the amount of weaponry captured from Hezbollah's caches is staggering - tens of thousands of Russian and Iranian anti-tank missiles (Kornet and Almas), enough to arm a whole new unit.

Should sell em for cheap to Ukraine

Honestly giving them as a gift in his nor of freedom and democracy would be the best pr chess move. Israel clearly doesn't need the guns

Yes!!!

Strategically that's a good move. Politically it's not so I don't see that happening.

Probably not.

A country which is surrounded by hostile countries and other entities can't really afford fighting an overseas war that doesn't have anything to do with it.

Also can Ukraine even pay for weapons?

Send it to Ukraine.

Tbf it wouldn't surprise me if eventually the two countries will start collaborating more if the war in Ukraine drags on. If Israel expands it's operations into other muslim countries it will probably encounter more and more russian shit and might end up agreeing to help Ukraine to keep Russia busy on another front

Or send that gear to Ukraine if that's the case (I'm sure Ukraine would appreciate anything it can get its hands on).

That would be an ethical thing to do, probably, and also a fair way to treat Russia after all the support they had been giving Israel's enemies, but I'm not sure Israel is going to arm Ukraine. Israel has already had multiple opportunities to do that before and didn't, and I can't say the reasons are absurd (Russia could retaliate by supplying Iran with more advanced weapons/defense systems, or even giving them to regional militias, trying to shoot down Israeli fighter jets striking targets in Syria or harass the Jewish community in Russia).

Israel has a lot more to lose than to gain by arming Ukraine

And ukros have proved to be pretty adaptable, if they keep getting rejected over the Iron Dome thing they'll probably agree to shift demands around it, it's not like they can afford to be picky

Send to our friends in Ukraine.

Send it to Ukraine

Why? It isn't like Israel is fighting groups with armor,those who do have a very limited amount and Israel already have more than enough options to deal with it. They can sell it to Ukraine or repurpose the explosives.

I will say this again. Give as much of these weapons to Ukraine. They were produced by Russia and Iran, Russia's ally, and it would be only fair to go full cycle and let the Ukrainians return them to the sender.

Last comments of this sort and I ran out of comments to add too. It was an interesting read

😐😐😐 pic.twitter.com/vx3CW3RDgZ

— MAKS 24 🇺🇦👀 (@Maks_NAFO_FELLA) November 3, 2024

Naturally Ukraine isn't happy Imagine being so lazy and useless that even slavs are disappointed in you

Ukraine don't even need to bomb the Russian power plants; they burn them down themselves. pic.twitter.com/TbnIrD7E5m

— Kvist.P 🇩🇰🇺🇦 (@kvistp) November 2, 2024

We are reaching unseen levels of

I'm going to link long fights here to avoid the post becoming too long and only copy smaller arguments

What's the alternative? Watching Putin take more and more of Europe while we appease him?

Very juicy argument chock full of tears and fearmongering Some actual quotes:

Allow me to school you.

You don't know it but Ukraine gave up their nuke in exchange of protection. Article 5 is a little weaker than you think.

Russia has a rolling army of steel and high explosives and the only thing standing in the way of rolling right over Europe is currently Ukraine.

Everything is a mess, go read it

You can go right now if you want to be a hero so badly.

Another good argument about who should fight for Ukraine Sample:

We need a much wider western response to be effective rather than expecting a few brave moral-driven redditors to goto Ukraine.

"Germany joins Serbia in invading France, allies seek sanctions, but not direct intervention" type vibes. Fricking invade the North Koreans, they are depleted of man power for a defense now. Prey on their weakness, you fricking cowards end their regime and give the North Korean people actual hope. Morons, I'm surrounded by morons. And they run my fricking country. Punish them for this, it is egregious to allow them to join invading a sovereign nation. Kitties. God, you even have de jour reasoning for them joining the Russians. No one can realistically b-word at you.

Should our koreans die for the greater good? This redditor thinks so!

So public believes what they are told as one side of the story while refusing to listen to other side of the story? But they are never told how many western intelligence people and ammunition companies are working to destroy the region at the behest of US and UK corporates and their political pimps?- same as they have done in countless other countries over the last 100 years? Isn't it the war because of greed of western corporates to grab resources- of course free of cost?

: The West is evil and destroys the world out of greed!

: Shut up russian bot!

Out of the loop. How does a Trump win work in favor of Putin?

Bad question to ask on reddit in election week

Yeah, what if? They won't. Ukrainian invaded Kursk to divert Russian troops from the front line. With NK troops to reclaim the oblast, the regular Russian army can get back to holding their line. Remember, Putin doesn't want all of Ukrainian, that's untenable. He just has to hold Luhansk and Donetsk long enough for the international community to get tired of propping up Ukraine

about Putin's plans for the war

Sir are you aware that it's an American election year tho

What about the EU?

Redditors are starting to defend America being the world police and the actual ruler of the world. Which is a good thing, just surprising that it happens

I find it intriguing that even after all this the conscription age in Ukraine is 25 (just dropped from 27) while it is 18 in SKorea & Israel. It just seem to paint a different sense of urgency when compared to all the press releases/pr statements.

This led to a weird discussion on which country is more threatened by it's neighbours, Ukraine or Israel

The new kremlin propaganda on reddit: "Go to fight in Ukraine": these guys are so predictable and boring.

Noo you can't call me out on my useless virtualsignalling! You're just a russian bot!

8,000 NK troops at the edge of Europe was a wake up call. I thought it was only 1500 at first

up to 12k with 3 NK generals, seems like they will form their own command.

Wouldn't surprise me if it gets closer to 50,000 in a few months. Or even more.

And as they take casualties I'm sure they will replenish. They could go through 100k in a year and argue it's not an escalation because they only have 10k active at a time.

SK officials say that this is just a trial run. If successful, North Korea can send up to 200k soldiers.

8k 12k 50k 100k 200k north korean soldiers are surrounding Europe on all sides

12k sounds like a lot until you realize that these soldiers are probably some of the most poorly trained in the world and I highly doubt russia is giving them anything high-tech.

A bunch of green troops doesn't stay green for long. Call it darwinism or what you will.

The ones who survive the first few days through the bombs, drones, shelling and bullets are the ones who know how to duck and cover and didn't get frozen up and chopped to bits.

The ones who make a through a few weeks are going to smarten up and figure how to fight just was well as their Russian allies.

This is what I've been saying all along (and have been downmodded for quite a few times): this strategy of just providing enough counterforce may be a good thing from the perspective of not causing WWIII (and also not causing Putin to die, which would be another very big uncertainty), but in the long term: we're just training those Russians.

The fearmongering over North Korea of all places continues cheerfully on reddit

[...]

Either way, he's likely to ask for more NK troops. He doesn't really have a deterrent not to, as the world has now allowed Ukraine to become a multi-nation-army battleground with entire batallions of other nations showing up. Biden has made some tactical and timing errors in this war, but this was the first time I felt he's made a geostrategic error by not immediately responding with giving Ukraine something new/fresh.

He is prolly avoiding rocking the boat this close before the election in belief that it is best to do anything he can to help the election rather than react immediatly. Of course this is left to be seen since one would assume that if previously mentioned is true then after election is done biden will do at least something about the situation.

Probably. But the rest of the world isn't kittying about with elections. NATO is an alliance. The alliance must act. Decisively things going down hill gents. Best dust your boots off.

NATO being an alliance has nothing to do with anything since Ukraine is not part of NATO

NATO has nothing to do with anything ? Don't talk nonsense we are directly influencing things with arms and intelligence. Don't be naive. What Sort of comment is that. lol

How can the world ignore the pleas of a country that has literally no allies, friends or mutual defence agreements with any other country? NATO wft?

We've been too concerned with Russian red lines to draw our own. Part of managing escalation is clear lines, with clear consequences that are followed on. We've pretty much just said, no nukes, and stopped there.

NATO doesn't have red lines because NATO isn't at war. That's why they just said no nukes (and no messing with that ukro nuclear plant), radiation will affect NATO countries in the area and that's where NATO draws the line

Efficiency is not the point. The point is North Korea is an Asian nation attacking a european country from Russian territory.

Are we cool with that? Are we not going to do anything out of fear, because we are now dealing with two crazy dictators? That's what Putin is counting on, he knows the west very well.

While he lets a third nation attack from his country, he knows we won't lift the restrictions we've put on Ukraine.

We should grow some balls, amp up our rethoric, lift restrictions on Ukraine's weapons use and send a few missiles into North Korea to show appreciation for their effort.

Would'a, could'a, should'a...

Crazy dictators exist all over the world, some funded by us. This is Ukraines problem sadly but the rest of the world getting dragged into ww3 is not the way to go. Especially for the only interactions I have with Ukraine is those calling me slurs online.

Doing nothing is the reason why WW2 happened. People like you are the reason why WW3 might happen.

But yeah, let's do nothing until the problem got out of hand!

How can WW3 happen if NATO isn't getting involved?

Some said 3k, others said 10k. Doesn't matter, what matters they are there. And yes appropriate actions need to be made, and i don't mean 'sanctions'.

Can we even sanction North Korea any more than we already do?

Putin is betting on Europe being weak. So far, this seems to be right

We have known this for a long time now. It wasn't exactly a secret that European countries spent years and years slashing military budgets despite their NATO obligations. Only now that war has come to Ukraine are they panic investing.

That's overly harsh in that it generalises. The big problem is that for decades now Germany has been the defacto leader of Europe.

Decades of pacifism and dependence on Russian fuel has left their military extremely unprepared and their government infamously slow and stagnant. Any co-ordinated action requires going through Berlin.

That's an EU problem not a NATO problem. Europe has no excuse for how shit it's militaries are

I don't see how North Korea invading Ukraine isn't a redline. Really surprised that some European nations have not sent in their own troops.

Like Putin can saber rattle all he wants but he is not going to risk an all out nuclear altercation over an isolated conventional war in Ukraine. With North Korea actively attacking what is going to stop them from moving into another country next ?

This is Poland WW2 all over again and no one is doing anything about it.

Poland included I guess

So, trying to avoid escalating war with potential catastrophic nuclear war as a result is… "weak"? People like you are the reason why wars escalate in the first place

People like you are why Hitler never stopped invading more and more countries

Azerbaijan, you're next, prepare yourself

It really is insane that another nation has just invaded Ukraine without provocation and the entire world just sits by. We're all cowards

To be fair, I think that has applied to most conflicts in history. But I really think we should have stood with Ukraine since they willingly denuked; ain't nobody willing to do that now.

It sets a precedent for future nations to never give them up. So much for a united world.

There is also a precedent that if a nuclear country (Russia) invades its neighbor, then it gets to dictate to a large degree how much help the invaded country can get. "Or else we will start a nuclear war".

That is how you get more invasions of that kind in the future.

I get that helping Ukraine without limits also has risks, but it is not at all obvious that the risks of helping are bigger than the risks of enabling future nuclear blackmail. The more nuclear blackmail attempts there are in the future, the more risks of nuclear war.

Redditors are discovering some uncomfortable truths about the world

And this one can have disastrous effects. Some countries are openly supporting Russia against Ukraine in almost every way. Soon world leaders won't have a choice but to aid Ukraine in every way as well - just to make sure that these dictator-ruled countries supporting Russia (and including Russia) don't become too powerful or threat to other countries as well. By then the war will become too large

>Soon world leaders won't have a choice but to aid Ukraine in every way as well

About that...

Yes. And while we're doing nothing both Russia and North Korea are busy influencing elections in Western nations. They are less than a week away from having their preferred US presidential candidate elected, which they'll then influence to dismantle NATO.

Since when is North Korea influencing election?

That's the thing. They haven't "invaded". By all reports, the NK soldiers are being deployed to the Kursk Oblast. As long as they stay within Russia's borders, they haven't invaded Ukraine and the international community will have plausibelstem deniability to continue hand wringing

Well, then NATO can send ground troops into ukraine since that isn't an escalation, right?

That would be a welcome turn of events. In that case NATO could airstrike all Russian assets in Ukraine and it wouldn't be an escalation.

They can, NATO just doesn't want to

what if they push. (0)

Why would we care about that when Zelenskiy tell us things are going great in Kursk? Obviously the poorly trained North Korean soldier can't make a difference when facing NATO trained Ukrainian soldiers right? (10)

ok bro chill (1)

This is an interesting distribution of points considering the rest of the comment section

its an american election year every second fricking year.

Superpower Hegemon my butt. the only time anything ever gets done is the first year of a new term, everything else is "But my midterms" "but my re eleciton"

That is rich coming from a Canadian. You do realize that Ukraine is not an obligation for the US right? The US isn't going to go full into nuclear war with a country that has 5,580 nuclear warheads for a country that isn't in an alliance with the US and used to be an enemy of the US.

Ukraine is a promising future ally which is why the US Congress has passed five bills appropriating $175 billion in response to Russia's February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. But we aren't commiting suicide over Ukraine.

Wrong, the US is one of the security guarantors of Ukraine's security, the other one ironically was Russia..either you intervene or be an enabler bystander, there is no middle ground. Not defeating Russia in Ukraine would be like risking further conflict spreading all over Europe.

Read the Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine didn't receive any security guarantees. In fact they very specifically avoided giving any security guarantees, and made sure that the Ukrainian delegation understood that there was a difference between the English phrases of security assurances and security guarantees.

You are right about that. Ukraine had a bad deal then and now, we will watch her suffer.

That's mainly Ukraine fault for agreeing to give up it's nukes, wtf did they expect?

Honestly my hope, and this is probably too American centric of a view point, is that if Kamala wins it shows the world that the support from the U.S isn't about to end or be straight up reversed, thus galvanizing other countries to aid Ukraine further.

Totally understand.

That's why it's important to give Ukraine the aid it needs and the permission to fight without one arm tied behind its back so that it can win the war without endangering US and European personnel.

If Ukraine loses, Putin will keep going. Worse yet, it'll embolden China and Iran and NK to start wars of their own.

Put simply, if Ukraine is allowed to lose, then it will be the first of MANY wars that will follow, and the only one that the USA was able to sit out.

All of the threatened countries actually have defence agreements with Murica tho. Burgers will react to protect them way before any war starts

And was the general sentiment before WWII as well. And was also wrong then.

It was right for America. We didn't get dragged into the war until we could flood the planet with M1 Garands, Sherman tanks, and aircraft carriers.

Frick yeah

How old are you? How many children of draft age do you have?

My only child is draft age.

That's why I pray to God there won't be another world war.

Wanna know the best way to make sure we avoid one?

We need to show strength and resolve to deter more acts of aggression.

Right now, we can do that by providing aid* to Ukraine, allowing them to strike Russian territory, and most importantly by making clear and unambiguous statements about our intent and what OUR red lines are.

If we continue to ignore Putin's aggression and let him feed the perception he's created of a power vacuum, then it will only further destabilise everything.

If Putin wins in Ukraine, there will be more wars to follow in Europe, in the South Pacific, in Taiwan and Korea, and so on, and when those wars happen, we'll be forced to send people, not aid.

If Putin loses, we get peace.

• Reminder that, despite what Trump would have you believe, the US isn't giving Ukraine money; the US is giving money to American businesses to fund the production of guns and ammo that are being sent to Ukraine. This aid is creating jobs and stimulating the economy.

A very tearful letter

How does that change anything? Just shows that voters are stupid. Democracies may not be viable in the age of internet.

This is a small argument but everyone is saying the same thing: No weapons to Ukraine? No democracy for you

Well you could always enlist in their army and fight for them. Instead of branding everyone cowards for not fighting in a war that isn't for their country.

Fighting for your allies is just as important as fighting for your own country. It essentially IS fighting for your own country. Our wellbeing relies on more than just borders

They weren't our ally until they were invaded. Now are you going to be the first boots on the ground if things pop off? Or are you actively enlisting in the Ukrainian army? Because calling for everyone else to send men to war is awfully brave when you aren't at risk

: Somebody needs to go die for Ukraine, not me tho, I still have so many Marvel movies to re-watch.

Ukraine Foriegn Legion is hiring anybody at this point, go for it.

I would sign up right now but you can't with a criminal record

It's always excuses for you people. Everyone else is a coward, but you? You obviously have a valid reason!

You actually can, and plenty now have. Ukraine's parliament even passed legislation to allow recruitment of current convicts. So let us know when you're there, unless you find another handy excuse?

Yes you can. So when are you signing up?

Many nations in the world keep invading other nations, that doesn't mean entire world will get involved in every conflict. Some nations who are allies or have strategic interests may get involved but most of the world will sit out. The entire world sat by when US invaded Iraq and many other countries, same principle will be applied for Russia invading Ukraine.

A more ironic name couldn't have been chosen.

Dubyah's "you're either with us or you're against us" diplomacy more or less forced a whole bunch of countries who didn't want to be there into joining the invasion, even though they knew the reasons for it were total BS.

Even fricking Moldova sent a few people as a gesture of goodwill, Western Europe should have shut up and helped if they didn't plan to actually build their armies and stand on their own feet without Murica's help

Yes because the whole world is dying to get involved in a war against 2 nuclear powers for Ukraine

Not for Ukraine. For Europe.

Next it will be Moldova. Then Georgia. Then maybe some "ethnic riots" break out in Lithuania, with "local paramilitaries" forming soon after.

I promise you, it will only stop when we do something about it. There's too much for Russia to gain, when so many in the West share your weak attitude.

Russia already took parts of Moldova and Georgia—Transnistria has been a de facto Russian enclave since the beginning, and the two "breakaway" regions of Georgia sparked an invasion and war in 2008.

Russia seems to have preplanned/rigged this shit during the end of the Soviet time.

Exactly, Europe doesn't care about Moldova and Georgia either

That is the exact reason why the world should be getting involved.

95.38% of countries do not have nukes. The entire world should be concerned and take action.

Of the 4.37% that are nuclear armed 33% of them are a threat to their neighbors and/or other countries and are engaging in openly hostile action.

What we're witnessing is that a nuclear armed nation has the power not to launch nukes, but to launch a standard military incursion without repercussions. The nukes just protect their "right" to violent invasion, an umbrella of MAD over their soldiers heads as they march past NATO borders.

What repercussions has the USA been dealt for all their illegal invasions/bombings?

Ah true, it's the USA, so it's okay when we do it.

People, can we please stop acting like Russia is the first nation to go to war with another nation?

When will you be signing your enlistment?

Was more than 30 years ago. Being cowardly is an excuse for not doing the right thing, not a justification.

Go join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion, I'm sure they could use your expertise.

Or, I can voice my opinion to encourage my government to represent my interests.

>95.38% of countries do not have nukes. The entire world should be concerned and take action.

Hear that Togo? You're now involved in this, drag your butt here and fight

Poland won't be next. It will be Moldova and Georgia.

It will be all three. The Russian military industrial base is ramped up fully, they're producing enough weapons to fully arm and maintain the logistics for 600,000 active combatants. It doesn't take a fraction of those forces to march through Moldova or Georgia.

They can barely supply the troops in Ukraine with equipment as is. The only reason they're seeing any gains is because they're literally throwing thousands of combatants at the frontlines and Ukrainian troops either get surrounded or retreat.

Barely supplying 600k is still supplying 600k. Look, I'm not saying they're NATO quality troops but none of the NATO nations in Europe currently have anything near 600k armed and moving troops spun up. It takes time to spin up logistics for that kind of man power, and once it's spun up it doesn't spin down quickly either. If we pretend Ukraine falls tomorrow, those troops aren't going home, they're going to first consolidate Ukraine and secure the new borders, then they're going to re-arm and resupply and build new logistics routes to supply that new front line. Once that's done, it's back to marching because that's what mobilized armies do. It won't take 100k to take Georgia and it won't take 50k to take Moldova. That leaves a cool 450k to walk up to Polands border and say hello.

What else can Putin do? His whole economy has been converted to military jobs. Sanctions won't be lifted, ever, Russia is never going to be an economic partner of EU or NA ever again, that era is over without a Russia capitulation and regime change. Russia is now, and will be for a very long time, a military junta. Best wishes to Poland, but if NATO doesn't spin up a massive army on Poland's border before Ukraine falls, well Russia may not take all of Poland in one day but there's nothing stopping them from simply walking across that border and drawing a new line wherever they please. Nukes don't mean a thing because MAD prevents anything but conventional warfare.

What other Nations would you like to see involved? To what extent?

There should be air strikes by NATO at all locations inside Ukraine and now occupied by Russia

Declare North Korean troops as terrorist and preemptively eliminate them.

Yes because NATO should totally declare WW3 over a country thats not an ally and nobody gave a shit about until Russia invaded

NATO can only strike terrorists, being an enemy combatant is not enough

Everyone is holding their breath over the outcome of a certain election.

Lol you have to realize that ukraine keep going on with war will start having a bad effect on US soon, therefore the goals no matter who won will be to end the war itself, through whatever means they come up with. No matter what zelensky is a pile of shit that is responsible for deaths of many ukrainians so he can suck on EU dongs.

There is no way the war in Ukraine will have any impact on the US at this stage outside of a positive. It's now very clear Russia is no threat and the next invasion Putin tries will not be tolerated with the same western fear Ukraine's was. The US can now focus almost entirely on other pursuits. After a Harris win, it would be wise for Putin to start sucking EU peepees himself to salvage what is left of Russia's future.

What fear? What is there for the US to help Ukraine anymore when Ukraine is indebted mostly to the EU, so not really any monetary gains here. It helped with creating more reason to sell weapons but the US is stable enough now, don't really make sense to send more to Ukraine. Russia came back from worse spots before, they have the resources, they have the manufacturing, I highly doubt this so called "war" is affecting them much. Ukraine is absolutely fricked though, thanks to idiotic leadership sucking on EU's peepee.

Nobody forced or tricked Ukraine into fighting. Eastern Europe has gone into worse wars for much less, it's the just way things work here. Ukraine would have fought with or without NATO's help but this way we got some fancy military data out this shitfest

They have not invaded Ukraine though. They are still in Russia. They are in Kursk and not even Ukraine has suggested they are enganged in combat or in Ukraine.

As it stands its a Russian ally sending troops to Russia.

Remove Kim Jung uns manhood from your mouth

Wow. You must impress all the 10 year olds with comments like that.

This guy is very determined to tell everyone that they suck Kim's peepee throughout the comment section

We need Leaders with authentic principles for that. Our leaders are all scared of nukes atm, and it may end up that using that threat any evil will do what it wants for a long time on this planet. We need to dodge the nukes problem first, or accept its outcome as a necessary evil to overturn an inbalance that we created, otherwise the world is stuck.

>or accept its outcome as a necessary

: We must all die in nuclear hellfire or evil will win!

World priorities Isreal and will direct all their resources there now instead of Ukraine

Yeah, Ukraine's situation started to get worse after oct 7 because US has shifted attention to Israel

Whole world saw it coming. The US broadcast intelligence for months ahead of time. NATO could have organized a "training mission" in 48 hrs and parked troops in Eastern Ukraine.

Truth is…the west didn't care that much.

This is the gist of it, really. NATO troops getting involved in Ukraine now would be an escalation simply because it happens after two years of war, if they were there from the start there wouldn't be a problem. But Ukraine doesn't has any allies so there was no reason for NATO to join and now that ship has sailed

Would you like to go to Ukraine? You're welcome to

With full NATO air dupport? I will take my chances.

No. You are coward right now. Biggest coward. You based off responses don't need nato air "dupport". Grow some balls and go fight ASAP over there. Let's see how long you last.

All you comments are the same and I bet are bots or worse, true folks who are so stupid that you can't realize you're in as bad propaganda as Russians. Holy smokes. With or without air support do you not realize what you're saying?

Is reddit this far down the potty?

So why the frick do my taxes go towards the military if they can't do their fricking jobs and defend their neighbour from Russian aggression? Why do you expect me to enter into a meatgrinder without equipment, when we have the full might of NATO to crush Putin ditting by idly?

When the politicians who I didn't vote for in my "Alliance" would throw anyone under the bus as long as the war doesn't come for them? Who are reluctant to give basic necessities to fight a war to a country?

What guarantees that when Putin Invades the Baltics NATO won't step down due to muh escalation and muh nukes?

Are seriously asking why your taxes are going towards military which can't start war with another country?

Why won't somebody fight Putin already?

Oh so you're signing up for the front lines ?

You north Korean oussy

North Korea hasn't invaded shit ! But if your so concerned, then mount up and go help out, instead of name calling

Remove Kim Jung uns weener from your throat and then maybe I can understand you

I remember when that joke was funny…in the 3rd grade

You north Korean kitty

Good to bed jr you've had to much candy tonight

Will you be first in line to volunteer for WW3? I tried to join the US Army but was rejected due to failing the physical. If not I'd be on the front lines.

You kitty north Korean. Your dictator is ungodly obese. And so is your Korean mamma

The whole comment section is full of this

The world doesnt deserve Ukraine.

What

I think they are basically saying that Ukraine is fighting Russia for all of us, and we can't seem to do right by them.

At the very least we need to unleash their use of what we've already given them.

Someone call the Pope and ask him if we can sanctify a whole country

Biden is holding Ukraine hostage. "Don't attack Russia" might effect my presid-e-t-yyyyyyyy

Stupidest thing I've read all year. He's not running for president you moron

Ooof… e-x-a-c-t-lyyyyy

or ?

Without provocation? Are you living under a rock? The UN pushed its way into Ukraine after Putin asked them not to. The UN, backed by the current presidential administration did this. Don't believe the lies!

Your two still functioning brain cells tried so hard but failed so miserably. SMH

We've discovered the culprit for Ukraine's invasion! Nuke the UN now!

Zelenskiy clearly looking in the wrong place for help since every Redditor seems to be an expert

Right!? Stupid Zelenskiy, all he has to do is ask me and I'll have an hour by hour report on how he can win this war by Thursday some up by tomorrow morning. Idiot.

It appears we learned nothing from Hitler

Be George Orwell, grab a rifle.

While I 100% support the international brigades, this requires actual sovereign countries to get involved

Sovereign nations right now

Europe. Europe is letting this happen. Europe needs to step up and eat all of the cost of preventing Ukraine from losing, because losing will cost Europe exponentially more immediately and in the long run and generations to come.

Your average 'who should be responsible for Ukraine' argument

Well you can enlist in their army at any time. Or do you want others to die in your stead?

I'm not pasting all of this, it's same argument all over again, and just as angry

WW3 has already started. It's been the big powers using tiny states to fight their wars (in Africa, Ukraine and the Middle East) for the last 10 years

If the big states are only fighting through proxies then it's not a world war

Like what the frick; it's NORTH KOREAN soldiers and the so called allies are sitting on their hands. Frick you Putin, piece of garbage

Ukraine does not have any allies. There is no agreement between them and anyone else to help them when they are in a pinch. They were content with sitting on the fence and buddying up with Russia until Russia invaded them. If any country wants to remain safe in this world with big dogs like China and Russia now feeling confident to throw around their weight, they need allies.

Is it Ukraine's fault for not being in NATO yet? (yes)

You could always enlist for Ukraine..

Doubt individual citizens can make a change where military super powers are at play.

Well who is in those militaries? Do you think it's just a bunch of darn robots

They are a collective group wired to do a task, most of the time no questions asked.

That task being to fight in war while some redditor sits comfortably at home. Why should others lay down their lives on your behalf?

I wonder how insufferable reddit will be when only robots will fight in the army?

The biggest problem for Ukraine is a lack of manpower and no amount of weapons will solve that. (32)

it's not lack of manpower, we have already formed brigades but without equipment https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/09/15/7475205/, because aid that was allocated year ago delivered only 10%. (-7)

Lmao reddit

No it's that we overestimated the West's ability to do anything. We really could curbstomp Russia in a conventional war if we tried. But what's all the firepower in the world if we simply refuse to use it?

The point is dissuade direct conflict with ourselves and countries we have a defensive pact with.

The point of that firepower isn't to inflict our will by force but rather to scare others away from us having to use it in the first place.

Well, it doesn't work anymore. It only works if potential aggressor countries are afraid of that firepower being used on them if they attack; and now every country on earth realizes that's not the case.

Complete inability to understand that not only Ukraine isn't in NATO, they aren't allies with anyone in NATO either. Should have considered doing something about it after after Russia nomed Crimea

It's an Europe issue. NATO is a defense pact and not to be used as an offensive measure.

You know that countries can act outside of NATO, right?

Yeah, and did they?

So you want to invade North Korea and provoke China to step in? You don't think this will only escalate into WW3 if we are not already in the beginning faces of it. I mean things are not as simple as that. NATO should have never got involved in this conflict. You avoid shit because it stinks, not because you are a coward.

NATO has benefitted greatly from this conflict, including roping in countries that have avoided joining despite being invited multiple times

Instead of this gentle BS why doesn't the US just destroy every military target in the theater from the fricking air? Send a message to these dictators that we can and will just end this when we feel like it. They aren't going to nuke anyone unless there's some existential threat to their country.

Well, they did recently bombed Yemen and Syria...

Dog Zelenskyy stole most of what the rest of the world gave to their nation while Ukrainian people fight with scraps. Most people who play war texting on their phones are oblivious. Go talk to actual Ukrainian people living in Ukraine. If they'll be honest with you, you will know how factually incorrect you people are about the majority of what you believe is right

Lay off the pipe and Russian propaganda

I'm literally Ukrainian xd No wonder the world thinks of Reddit as a joke

"I'm Russian living in America and most of my friends that still live there completely gave up on the idea of having a child because they hate Russias government so much"

This you?

Smartest zigger

Desperate people do dangerous things

Exactly: putin just brought a terrorist country's troops in Europe.

There are no israeli troops in Europe

Random palicuck reporting for duty

Ukraine needs nato's help asap. Stop wasting time and send troops or shoot down North Korean troop grouping! Asap!

: So what are you guys doing today?

I'm writing another angry letter to Israel, they'll have to write back eventually!

: I'm screaming at EU to not send me help after a deadly flood.

: I'm helping Israel spy on Italy.

: Fricking what?!

: Nice!

Why is europe so nonchalant about its border being invaded?

Europe isn't country. And Russia is also in Europe. So try again

All right, I'll stop here because the character count is screaming at me, hope you liked it

Thread: Before refrigeration, Russians kept the milk fresh by dropping live brown frogs straight into their milk buckets. The frog’s presence kept milk from spoiling, but no one knew why.

Until Albert Lebedev, a scientist from Moscow State University decided to look into it... pic.twitter.com/P5o93UWd5A

— oldeuropeanculture (@serbiaireland) November 2, 2024

Thread: Before refrigeration, Russians kept the milk fresh by dropping live brown frogs straight into their milk buckets. The frog's presence kept milk from spoiling, but no one knew why.

Until Albert Lebedev, a scientist from Moscow State University decided to look into it...

What he found is extraordinary. The skin of brown frogs, Rana temporaria, releases a unique secretion packed with potent antibacterial and anti-fungal peptides, making it a natural defence mechanism against both bacteria and fungi...

Albert Lebedev describes these chemicals as "enormously active", and his team has identified 76 different peptides in the frog's slimy coating. Some of these might even help create new antibiotics or medicines in the future. More in:

https://www.academia.edu/87779686/Composition_and_Antimicrobial_Activity_of_the_Skin_Peptidome_of_Russian_Brown_Frog_Rana_temporaria

What the frick in tarnation This guy really went out to buy Russian military gear and pose as a dead guy in a forest?

Russian soldier shares a review of North Korean stew received from comrades in the DPRK.

He doesn't know what kind of meat it is. pic.twitter.com/pY7CVo3DlT

— Clash Report (@clashreport) November 1, 2024

Terrifying sight of Russian munitions raining down on Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/42HUG4eXL3

— UNITED24 Media (@United24media) November 1, 2024

I'll try to select different comments than usual to avoid the topic being too boring, hopefully the post will still be interesting

Europe has already delivered 30% more and pledged 100% more aid than the US. US also has delivered only 10% of the total aid they promised a year ago.

(89 children)

Honest question: If someone wanted to provide an exactly equal response to NK joining the fight, what exactly would that be?

Poland being allowed to join on the Ukrainian side. They have a vested interest in keeping Ukraine free and welcoming them into NATO and the EU.

Frick off from Poland joining this shit show. If you want pack your bags and go there but don't try to actively drug us I to this

: All right, I guess we can sacrifice Poland for this.

: What, no! Frick off, we're not doing it!

Allowing Israel to send troops to Ukraine. That's the only thing I can think of that's even remotely comparable.

: Fine, fine... What are the chances of us convincing Israel to attack Russia?

: ...what?

Russia has made consistent ground gains over the course of the war, especially this year. There are currently calls to lower the conscription age in Ukraine so they can rotate frontline troops who are simply losing to attrition.

It helps no one by minimising Russia's achievements, more so if you're wanting to garner public support for a stronger response.

Honestly I don't think a lot of these people are deliberately minimising it. They genuinely believe it to be the case because they just believe what reddit/ the news tells them

people saw Russia get pantsed in the first couple of weeks, and have been stuck in that mindset ever since.

People completely forgot the prediction of the 2023 counter offensive where Leopards and Bradley were supposed to sweep away any Russian resistance made up of demotivated and barely equipped soldiers. The world war 1 trench were some outdated fortification the Russians would never hold.

It's almost like the media has been filled with lies for quite some time.

Tons of reddit and twitter users is starting to shift from 'lol Russia' to 'OMG Russia is the strongest country ever, NATO has to face them off now here or we'll all die'. This not only shows how easily r-slurs shift their opinions it also shows how easily they fall for propaganda since they are starting to unironically parrot russian propaganda in their frenzy

They aren't all going to die. I know reddit like to believe it'll just be lambs to the slaughter but ofc not

The big problem I see that also affects the West is that those surviving troops and their leader will have gained incredibly valuable modern war combat experience - which can have major advantages with things like N v S Korean wars or escalation from Russia or China or Iran which seems to be on the horizon in our lifetimes

This isn't something to be taken lightly, it's obvious the West is distancing from Ukraine directly (mostly the US due to their impending election) but allowed N Korean troops this experience and takeaway is a much more strategic blunder by NATO/the allies

North Korea is also now a danger to the West

Free country where men are being kidnapped and forced into trenches every single day. While actual military officers and people with connections chill far behind the front lines.

Congrats, you learned what a draft is.

A very dumb argument about whether forceful conscriptions exists under democracy

NATO will not do any of those things over a non-NATO territory. Each of those options would be considered a direct attack on Russia by NATO and a major escalation of this conflict, likely to a full world war, which is definitely not in NATOs (or any one else's) best interest.

Lots of debate and here

Not to justify Russia, or say Ukraine is wrong to defend itself, but imagine how the US/European countries would feel about Russia gifting long range (but non-nuclear) missiles to say, Syria, during the NATO intervention.

Russia has done this multiple times already

NATO may not get involved, particularly depending on the US election results, but I think we're getting close to the point where some NATO members very well might decide they need to get more directly involved. Any signs of a North Korean breakthrough would certainly trigger some panic in eastern Europe.

If the US is not getting involved, NATO is not getting involved. NATO is the US.

It may surprise you but it is possible for individual members of an alliance to act without the approval or involvement of other members.

Western Europe won't care that much probably since they are far away from Russia and no Eastern European state will ever dare to attack Russia without Daddy Merica's protection

This is a common misconception. 'Collective defense' and 'stability beyond its borders' are the two primary mission statements.

NATO has done many of these things before, the vast majority of which were in non-NATO countries, including closing the skies.

What is different this time is that this is the first time the aggressor has been allowed to dictate the terms of the conflict. NATO does not have a strategy to deal with muscovy.

Escalation != stability.

Appeasement != stability.

This started a long-ish argument, but one point stands out

Also, unlike with Israel, Ukraine doesn't even have any treaties with ANYONE in NATO that would even vaguely imply that there is a duty on either side to help in the case of an invasion from any party, not just Russia. Literally nobody in NATO is obligated in any legal sense to defend Ukraine. You can argue the moral point all day, but IMO "the threat of nuclear Armageddon" overrides any moral argument that can be made. The entire world's destruction isn't worth the autonomy of one country's government. That fricking sucks, I get it.

If Iran declared war on Israel, at the least the US would be brought in because we are actual military allies of Israel. I'm not sure off the top of my head where European countries stand but I'm pretty sure Germany would also be pulled into the war, at the least. We have an actual agreement with Israel to defend it from foreign invasion that isn't done by terrorist proxies, and an agreement to arm them for defence against those proxies.

Seriously, aside from all the jokes about America's love for Israel, people on the internet seem to be genuinely tripped by the idea that America directly helps Israel and not Ukraine, despite them being two different countries in two different parts of the world with different histories and external policies.

They won't.

Hungary and Slovakia will find some procedural move to block a response. Germany wont' do anything because Scholz doesn't want to risk his future boardmember position at Rosneft.

Republicans in America's congress will stall because Poland was historically part of the Soviet Union, so it rightfully belongs to russia, or some bs excuse

And if Trump wins, he'll be negotiating Poland's surrender without the input of any polish officials.

If Russia attacks Poland NATO won't do anything because Hungary will say no and obviously America will instantly back down and apologize to Orban

Each? So, giving Ukraine Taurus and Tomahawks would be considered a "direct attack" on Russia even though it very clearly isn't? Or is it actually you who thinks this, even though it's blatantly false? Doesn't that mean you are here, now to pimp Russian propaganda on their behalf? Remember that we don't have to accept your crazy premise that supplying Taurus and/or Tomahawk is a "direct" attack on Russia, you just asserted that as if it was "fact".

That is absolutely not a "direct attack" on Russia, no matter how you attempt to spin it. Ukraine gets weapons, just like Russia gets weapons from its allies, and Ukraine fires them. Ukraine attacks. Not NATO. Don't fabricate a double standard in order to blame NATO for "aggression". That is the most Kremliniest talking point ever.

You're going to argue that they are exceptional weapons. That still doesn't make it a "direct attack" by NATO.

Source? Source?!

thank you for saying this... people's brains are rotten form Marvel movies they think it's so simple

Downmarseyd

NATO shouldn't be used in wars with non NATO members.

You can argue about if NATO siding with Bosnia was the morally correct choice, but it was an incorrect use of the defensive alliance.

NATO's defensive pact wasn't affected by bombing Serbia because Serbia couldn't do anything about it so there was no risk for any NATO country involved

Allow them to continue to feed the grinder in Ukraine while the West collects data on drone warfare. Same as they have been doing with Russian troops.

: One of the best ideas I ever had.

Exactly. I'm expecting that Biden will drop most of the restrictions on the use of US weapons on Nov 6 no matter which way it goes.

That's my hope too frankly

What country is going to send their boys to this meatgrinder?

If they want to go as part of a volunteer army, I think they should be allowed. I'm sure more than a few active duty soldiers in NATO countries would love to go if it didn't mean leaving the armed forces to do so.

They already accept volunteers. No country is going to send troops until it is absolutely necessary. It is political suicide.

This goes on for a little more, but basically foreign soldiers can't wait to die in Ukraine and the only thing stopping them is their army not allowing them to join Ukraine's army

I agree, regardless of the state of the NK troops. Another country has entered the war and provided manpower. A reasonable response would be for a neighbouring Ukrainian ally to do likewise.

Name an elected western leader that is going to send their 18-25 year old men to fight and die for Ukraine while Ukrainian men aged 18-25 sit in cafes and drink coffee? Until Zelensky starts drafting males 18 and up (which he can't do because he will be overthrown) NOBODY is sending troops to Ukraine.

You underestimate how much the nations neighbouring Russia hate Russia. I do not believe Ukraine would be required to draft all of their fighting aged before someone would send volunteer units. The French have also offered before. Perhaps call them out on this.

You're also underestimating that Ukraine is the second most hated country in Eastern Europe, right after Russia

They are already fighting. In Kursk. Which every ally defied as a legitimate battlefield. What's the difference between Donbas and Kursk in this sense? Zelenskiy is fairly pissed because someone already leaked his Tomahawk request which was supposed to be super confidential with the USA. Now he has to deal with nobody giving a darn about another country's soldiers fighting. He goddarn went to fight INSIDE of Russia to pool troops from East and have something work, but Russia is sending North Koreans. So now he has to fight up north and the east isn't getting any easier. I would be pissed at my allies too at this point, where for a year you are constantly asking, begging, proving something and have no improvements.

I unironically thought this is a pro-russian comment at first

I've already seen a pretty big step away from the US / Switzerland over arms transfers being blocked.

I think the wake up call for a lot of European countries was when the The UK was being blocked from sending Its own domestically produced weapons because they had some US components, meanwhile Russia is launching cruise missiles that contain US components to bomb ukrainian cities.

People keep saying this, but the reality is that Europe is not close to being a unified entity. Central, Western, and Eastern have too many differing opinions. They struggle to act on their own due to scale, and they struggle to act together because of the competing interests. They will never be able to act as a unified force without third-party coercion from a country that isn't embroiled in their internal squabbles.

This is what redditors don't understand, eastern and western europe don't like each other. Eastern europeans countries generally like and trust America a lot more than they like and trust anyone in the wastern side of the continent. If there's a schism in NATO it's much more likely that we will all side with America rather than France or Germany

Yes because france is leading the way with ukraine funding, wait they are not.

Even the Netherlands have delivered more than 5 times as much per GDP as France (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)

Lmao

France doesn't need US permission to deploy its own troops. It could have done that if it wanted to.

What it needs is US support if Russia retaliates against France.

France has its own nuclear weapons. There is nothing stopping them from going boots on the ground in Ukraine independent of NATO other than the fact that they do not want to because it would be political suicide.

Redditors have such a simplistic view of the world

France is doing plenty… The French government and French military have a huge advantage in the fact that they don't have disclose most of its military spending or foreign aid spending.

Ya this has been disproven. They just are not doing that much

Europe follows the US for better or worse. That's their choice, right or wrong.

I'd say it's without a doubt the wrong choice. This overreliance on someone else's leadership (and military resources) will bite Europe in the butt (as it has), and vice-versa it will lead Europe into armed conflicts it has no interest in.

Remember when America went to invade Iraq with an utterly laughable justification, and when European countries politely declined the invitation to come as well, they were treated like villains? Yeah, good times. What a partnership.

Skill issue, we gave America troops even without being in NATO at the time. This is why we're in NATO now

Ukraine is not a US ally.

But EU is and abandoning Ukraine will have fundamental impact on the relationship

I'm surprised Ukraine hasn't lost its patience with the half-assed-everything from the USA and EU, and stopped all hydrocarbon transit into EU. I think they're timing it for the colder months so once there's a backup of hydrocarbons in the pipelines, stuff freezes up and permanently takes out Russia's extraction capabilities. Western parties are waaay too complacent and comfortable due to how diplomactic and tactful Urkaine has been -- all things considered.

Ukraine's attempt at freezing Europe will be just as effective as Russia's attempt has been. Zero, because Europe doesn't even get cold winters any longer Also, Europe will start getting it's shit from Russia again...

If I were Zelensky I would start to play dirty with NATO .. ok no support no fricking fuel and we are building nukes right this moment

.. probably his next move and I wouldn't blame him .. survival

Speedrun into getting bombed by both Russia and NATO at the same time

They'll figure it out one way or another. All the tankies dismissing Zelenski as a beggar forget how USSR collapsed.

I don't even know what this means

Everyone's waiting on next week's election results. The outcome will shape our planet's future for the next four years.

Utterly based

Rightfully so. It's insane how there was no response from us to literal north fricking korea invading our european soil.

It's Ukraine's soil. Not NATO soil.

I don't understand where this whole 'Europe must act as a one' shit came from. Countries here would gladly spit in the face of most of the other european states

I just wanna point out how fragile geopolitical relationships are right now and how ignorant this statement is of that broadly

Congo, Iran, Lebanon, the weird stuff going on in Eastern Europe, the literal war we are already talking about in this post that has billions of dollars of aid from the USA alone, the stuff going on in Gaza that caused the stuff going on in Iran and Lebanon and kinda Yemen too iirc.

Why the frick would Zelensky care what happens in Yemen? He's at war, Yemen is the last shit he cares about right now

If Israel deployed North Koreans people would care though

Deploy a legion of South Korean troops? WTF are we supposed to do!

The same thing we did in Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya? Send in the airforce, and enforce a no-fly zone, mandate a peace treaty that goes to pre 2014 borders, and if Russia doesn't take it, then we escalate.

Yes! Bomb Serbia again!

I feel bad for Ukraine, I really do. I wonder if the circumstances would have been different if they would've joined NATO many years ago.

Riddle for the ages I guess

These are not Halloween decorations. This is a calendar produced by Russian FSB and intended for sale.

I wonder why Xi Jinping is there, not Kim Jong Un. pic.twitter.com/cw9D8FY7Cs

— Anton Gerashchenko (@Gerashchenko_en) October 31, 2024

Putin is shorter there, what does that mean?

Wagner member gets stomped by locals in occupied Luhansk. pic.twitter.com/i9DweCxnGJ

— BroSINT 69™ (@osint_69) October 31, 2024

No, he is right.

— 🕊️Christian 🇺🇦 Weichselbaum (@WeichselChris) October 31, 2024

Good luck under Russia ocupation, maybe you prefer russian values.

— Vojtech (@VojtechPr) October 31, 2024

That guy isn't even ukraininan he's a bong

Russian T-80BVM get's hit by a Javelin in 2022.
(Filmed by the tank behind). pic.twitter.com/nifPRCx2hE

— T-90K (@T_90AK) October 30, 2024

As you can see on the list, only one Patriot system has been delivered and that one is from 2022, if I remember correctly. Biden announced another patriot system in June 2024, but it seems that that's exactly one of those AA systems Ukraine is still waiting for.

: America, can you give us that Patriot system we talked about? We could really use it right now.

: Nope, sorry Ukraine. I'm too busy sending another THAAD to Israel, you understand of course.

: Oh...

Interesting bit of news from a month(ish) ago - the EU promised Ukraine 1 million shells in March '23 but as of September 30th, has only been able to deliver ~30% of it 🙃

: Is anyone actually making that munition we promised to give to Ukraine?

: Lol, no.

just send in NATO troops already and settle this conflict. we know what russia does as time goes on, no need to give them more time to "debate" pulling out of ukraine

Lots of angry comments here

Dude needs to keep down the whinging for a week or so unless he wants all the aid stopped.

And here

Who cares. They should fight strategically not with so much volume of consumption.

>slavs

>fighting strategically

I have vague memories of a pumpkin faced man telling Europe they need to up their military spending and be laughed at for it back in 2016

You mean when he tried to claim the increased spending by European nations as his own work while it was exactly on the schedule Obama negotiated?

Nato's military doctrine is to gain aerial superiority and subsequently crush opponents through a combined arms means. It's fundamentally not designed for prolonged artillery satuation like we are seeing in ukraine, as such nato countries have not had much reason to manufacture artillery at scale prior to this war since it was not how nato planned to fight any war its directly involved in.

: Wtf are you people even doing at this point?

If the race really is as close as it is or Trump does win it, Bidens last act needs to be donating all the US's aircraft carriers, Tomahawks and F35s to Ukraine.

Democracy will fail either way but at least this way we go down fighting.

How is giving up all your shit and doing nothing else going down fighting?

So, the Federal Government is shelling out the money to defense contractors and the Pentagon but only 10% of the actual hardware is getting delivered?

So who is stealing the remaining 90%?

This is the kind of thing firing squads were invented for.

Didn't pack the rockets to Ukraine fast enough? Straight to firing squad you go

That's a bit of a reach. The items just haven't been delivered yet. I placed an order online 2 days ago, 0% of my order has been delivered today, it looks like it's en route and when UPS drops it off 100% of my order will be delivered.

That doesn't mean 100% of my order has currently been stolen.

We can certainly talk about lead times, delays, etc. which can be a problem, but what reason do we have to assume 90% has been stolen?

I want to see the Amazon tracking for billions in military hardware en-route to Ukraine.

Especially the photo of all of it sitting on Zelensky's doorstep.

Consider this, the shortest route is off the east coast of the US. Shipping was shut down for a while. Then also take into consideration that Customs can take a REALLY FREAKING LONG TIME for non-military shipments and requires detailed information. Now if it goes through an anti-Ukranian country then they can make the process take over a year for customs to clear it to pass. Now add the other countries en route. What does that mean? Shipping is a -b-word- when it comes to moving military equipment.

Why the shit would America's weapons go through an anti-Ukraine country?

youre assuming things

Yep. And I will continue to assume them while the evidence appears to support the assumption.

I will un-assume them when the missing 90% of aid winds up where it is supposed to be.

Yeah, imagine assuming defense contracts are bloated sham deals where many individuals line their pockets.

You could just check the GAO's high risk list and associated assessments and see the US gov confirm, with research, the vulnerabilities of DOD contracting to boated sham deals and individual enrichment, across seven broad DOD-related entries.

That's not what it's reporting, and you darn well know that... Why blatantly lie? The GAO's report is on high risk projects and programs, such as ambitious programs that are likely too demanding on technology, or a way too low ball deal.

The willingness of people to blatantly lie when their own sources call them a liar is baffling, yet here you are... Pathetic and shameful

I actually don't think OP is lying he's just really dumb lol

Just reddit things

??? they are just slow at transferring the material to Ukraine, nobody is stealing it

The argument goes on if you're curious

The U.S. military has noted repeatedly that readiness stocks have been dangerously depleted and that manufacturing is not keeping pace with replacements necessary before releasing further stocks. Add in Israeli requirements and this is no surprise. The US is not going to jeopardize its own defense for Ukraine, no matter what

: Look Ukraine, not sending weapons to Israel is a threat to America, ok?

: But America...

Defending Ukraine is defending the US.

Lmao

LMAO. Yall are wild with your takes. What makes you think that Russia could do anything to the US?

The political experts on /r/worldnews have tried to answer this but they used too many and I'm too lazy to copypaste everything

Right - just like Vietnam was defending the US. What's NATO membership if you get all the benefits without all the costs and don't even have to join? The Pentagon gave up on the domino theory 4 decades ago, old timer

if they were in NATO there would be F22s and 35s flying over Ukraine carrying out fire missions and the Russian fleet would have been sunk 2 years earlier.

also, pentagon doesn't determine policy. they enact it.

"[The P]entagon doesn't determine policy" - that's a good one, I'll tell that one the next time I get together with my DOD colleagues -ex military, DOD

who controls the pentagon/DOD? who controls their funding?

do they have their own policies? sure. but they answer to the President and Congress. They can't just on their own decide (legally) "hey lets start giving weapons to Thailand and do strikes into Zimbabwe." only the CIA is allowed to do that (/j).

You really are clueless, aren't you? Start with Eisenhower and his warnings about the military industrial complex; move on to the Pentagon Papers… I love you armchair warriors who have never even been inside the Pentagon, where the birds are making the coffee

Although I will grant you that the president gets to choose which Pentagon-formulated policies to implement. That is why the generals didn't like Trump, btw, because he would always choose the craziest and most belligerent policy. After a while, they stopped giving him choices. As for Congress, they don't get squat, other than appropriating funds (which never, never are opposed because "not supporting the troops" is a political death sentence.)

Does the Pentagon control the White House? Or vice versa?

Seems the US don't think so. China is the pivot and war is coming with Taiwan being the hot spot.

: But after you're done sending weapons to Israel can you give me some too?

: Nope, I plan to go bully China next.

The US must be intentionally sandbagging then. There is no reason the US military, of all organizations on earth, should have any problem moving vast amounts of war material around the globe.

And when the war first started, they was little delay on sending aid, too. Why would there be a bunch of bureaucratic red tape getting in the way now? Frick all that overhead, just put it on a darn ship and send it.

I mean, we failed to move out of Afghanistan effectively despite a year's warning. We pulled out the troops last second, leaving everyone else and all the equipment high and dry.

I think this shows that our military leadership is woefully incompetent right now, either because of red tape or because of extreme stupidity. I don't think they are sandbagging aid.

The US military cold be incompetent - but not because of what happened in Afghanistan. The US went there with the intent to create a new Afghanistan and much of the equipment was to maintain that. What was left in the country was mostly because of practicality and cost, or already given to the Afghan government - although still arguably wasteful.

This particular problem in Ukraine has less to do with military competence and more to do with sand-bagging, or red tape, from bureaucracy.

I guess you could say that could be interpreted as incompetence. I would consider someone mailing a bullet on friday when they should've sent it on monday but got lazy as incompetence. And someone wanting to mail a bullet on monday but can't until friday because contract changes, procurement, or a politician as red tape.

The issue isn't the equipment that would have cost more to ship home than to write off, it was the fact that a small presence could have safeguarded against a resurgent taliban, once it became apparent they were not honoring their part of the deal, and mainly the fact that we pulled out so fast that we left 10s of thousands of interpreters and "collaborators" behind to be murdered. Yes, Afghanistan failed when karzai was chosen and inadvertently overly favored by the us for too long, but the people that were left to fall prey to taliban retribution is the national shame that we carry. But honestly, only a small number of troops could have held off a taliban government being re established, biden and Trump just really wanted entirely out.

Don't feel the least bit of shame. A country that can't prop it self up after 2 decades is their own problem.

: You know what? I'm sick of this shit and I'm leaving. The Taliban can have all the equipment for all I care, unlike you they earned it I guess.

: Wait, America, please!

: Gib America's weapons!

They don't have any logistics problems supplying Israel though.

No

At least there is no parts supply chain to keep those vehicles and such running well. Much of it was disabled before leaving

Now the equipment left by the ANA? Most was likely not disabled.

Imo the only thing it shows is that the pull out should have been properly negotiated and prepared for by the person who negotiated it. It also shows the US will still honor it's agreements.

Could it have been better? Probably. There were a lot of issues that started with the agreement made by the previous admin.

Who's to blame for the embarrassing Afghanistan pull out? Trump or Biden?

Israel, they have used up all the US's missile interceptors, artillery shells, etc for their greater Israel campaign.

Like fighting a war with somebody else's weapons is a bad thing

The West has proven itself to be both unwilling and unprepared to respond appropriately to the threat posed by Russia and Putin has been able to run rings around both the US and the EU. Will the larger NATO partners actually defend smaller states like the Baltic States with more than words if and when Russia decides that it's time to chance its arm.

I keep seeing this take, but I was actually impressed at how fast NATO reacted to this war despite owning Ukraine nothing. If anything it proved that if NATO is willing to go this far out for a non-NATO country then it's willing to rain heck for an actual member

If the Ukraine soldiers arent trained for all the new weapons. Its a waste to send them now. Just like the F16 fighters they are getting. It takes time to train personel to maintain and fly those things.

Which equipment ? It's been 2 years, they have been trained on most pledged equipment.

: We trained you to fight in modern planes, what more do you want?

: The actual planes too?

: Oh yea sure, just give us another year or so! We promise!

(we don't have a NATO marsey unfortunately )

Funny that you mentioned it. USA also restricted the number of Ukrainian pilots it trained. https://kyivindependent.com/delays-to-f-16-training-ukrainian-mp-says/

That's a very old article and misleading. The US didn't 'restrict' Ukrainians from training. The US didn't have slots in the foreign pilot training programs because they are booked far in advance by other nations. Also Ukraine did not have enough English fluent pilots advanced enough to go straight into F-16 training. The training is only done in English.

Therefore, the US opened another F-16 training program in Romania to accommodate more pilots and they began training Ukrainian pilots from scratch. Training from scratch adds an extra year onto the training. But there weren't any more Ukrainian candidates that could start at the B-Course level, which is the course where you start actually flying the F-16.

: Right, look what we're gonna do. You'll train alongside one of your neighbours.

: Sure! Do we get more american soldiers in our country is we do this?

: You'll have to pay for all of this...

: No problem! I'll mooch the money back from the EU at some point.

: But what about the actual planes?

Because the pipeline is already tight as most us allies train their fighter pilots in the us. I mean I take your point, but when you state it like that it sounds like some sabotage campaign.

: We can train them too now! EU gib money!

: Really?

: It's for the safety of us all!

The pattern I noticed is the entire war effort is dependant on US and Europe doesn't care

US gives guns, Europe gives money. US aid is govt funding to buy stuff from US-based companies to then send to Ukraine. If the US govt pledges weapon packages in the form of pledge to buy from local aka US suppliers, but the guns do not end up in Ukraine, how is this Europe's problem?

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine

The clearly end up in Ukraine, that list of what's been delivered by the US is massive. Something your country can't say.

Unpopular opinion - these delays exist for the same reason the Justice Department has done frick-all about domestic terrorism and Republican sedition for four years. Biden is a gutless do-nothing kitty that is soft on real crime that threatens our national security and that of our would-be allies. He is so old, feeble, senile, and out of touch he won't lift a finger to challenge those who are attacking our democracy and sandbagging/obstructing aid to Ukraine.

Our only hope is that Harris successfully stops the steal, fires Garland, rolls heads at the corrupt DOJ, FBI, and Pentagon and starts the real work of purging Federal power structures of traitors who have for too long aligned with Trump, Putin and other agents actively destroying our country.

Kamala will save America!

I wish my country just surrendered and gave green corridor for Russia to attack Europe. All we get is words of encouragement and pressure to lower our conscription age to send more of our men to die. I just read that North Korea handed over to Russia 6 million shells. FRICK THIS SHIT.

I live close to the frontline. I am so fking tired. My life was good. Better than most americans and europeans. Living standards were pretty high. I refuse to be a refugee, life in europe is a downgrade. I think we chose wrong allies. North Korea and Iran have no problems delivering what's needed.

You can always surrender

Ask Europe.

In-depth breakdown of the EU/US contribution

This shit is just getting pathetic. Has been pathetic.

Frick the GOP, frick the Putin sycophants, frick the authoritarian enablers stealing Ukrainian lives for votes.

Does he know that Biden is president?

Can supply the genocidal israelis but not Ukraine. This is deliberate and if Ukraine falls then NATO is done. Who is going to trust the Americans and I guarantee every NATO country, except maybe Canada, will drop out. America will be isolated and the world will be at war. I'm not keen in dying in atomic hellfire and I hope the Americans get their heads out of their asses and are honest to their word for once.

The US maintains stockpiles in Israel.

Lol what? Ukraine is not part of NATO, so Ukraine falling isn't going to affect it.

You can't help this non-NATO country! You need to help this other non-NATO country or NATO is finished!

Meanwhile, another 100 billion to Israel!

: Problem?

England has given over 1.6 BILLION, and a lot of that money has been misplaced according to Ukraine

Hmm. Lies.

Google it also you've got a few weird things on your profile p-do

Look, copious amounts of alcohol is a human right, chud

Wrong! They should have much more by now!

Probably using those funds for some other shady shit

This article is about military equipment pledged but not delivered, not funds.

Like an eastern european country couldn't find a way to do shady shit with equipment. This is an insult at this point!

On bad days, Mykytenko will ask her sergeants to take over, and she'll spend the day watching Harry Potter movies.

These are things that are better kept private good grief

Too lazy to do the rest myself but look through it, it's fricking funny

!eurochads !BIPOCs