I decided to go out on a limb and said something along the lines of “I know this is a very superficial thing to say, but do you think it might help a little if you would shave?“

My (29f) friend, let's call her Emily (32f) is an amazing person - she's fun, adventurous, intelligent, super active, a fantastic cook, outgoing and just a great girl to be around. A few years ago she decided not to shave anymore (legs, armpits, female areas) out of protest to the patriarchy, resulting in her having very long dark hair everywhere.

A few days ago, we were having a beer and she told me how sad her dating life was, that she kept meeting guys and having very fun dates but never got a call back or when she tried asking for a second or third date, got rejected in a very generic manner. Now after telling her “you're so gorgeous and wonderful, the right man will come don't worry” multiple times, I decided to go out on a limb and said something along the lines of “I know this is a very superficial thing to say, but do you think it might help a little if you would shave?“

She was very taken aback and told me she was disappointed I would suggest she change her appearance for men and that I was the reason so many women were suppressed. I immediately apologized but the evening was pretty much ruined. I texted her the next day apologizing again for hurting her but she hasn't replied.

I really did not want to hurt her but I also don't quite see how my comment was that bad so I am not sure how to phrase my apology. So decided to take it here and ask people here how big of an AH I am.

UPDATE: I am absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of reactions this got. Thank you all so much for your well-worded answers and for your inputs. Emily messaged me yesterday evening asking if we could talk about the whole thing and we had a phone call.

She started by apologizing for her reaction and by the things she said to me. I told her that I wanted her to know that I and many others love her for who she is and the last thing I wanted was to suggest that she change herself for a guy. Another important piece of advice I got here was to make sure she actually was asking for my opinion and not just venting, so I told her that I was very worried I had given her unsolicited advice. Thankfully she didn't see it that way. She told me I had always been a loyal friend who had her back and she always had valued my advice, which was why she was so taken aback by my comment. I told her that what I should have said is that I feel like in the past, she has been attracted to men who don't necessarily share her values, and that she might need to be more clear with her dating choices and first make sure they align with her values to avoid being disappointed. She also agrees with this and we really had a great conversation after that. Thanks again to you all for the insightful comments and for your help!

jannies tagged this as NTA, but most of the top comments are YTA

YTA not shaving is a value statement. She is looking for a partner in life that has the same values. By telling her to shave you are telling her to change her values just to get a man. Instead of saying “don't worry you will find the right man”, why not say “it's better that these wrong men are screened out than be with one of them that doesn't value the same things you do. Now that would be miserable compromising your values”. Being single is not the end of the world.

Edit: Typos corrected and grammar improved for clarity

Edit to add: Not shaving is a value statement for OPs friend as per OP her friend stopped shaving to stand up to the patriarchy. Not shaving is not a value statement for all those that do not shave.

This. She's not looking to date men who are only interested in women who shave. Telling her to shave is not going to help her get good dates, just more dates. And those dates would likely be the type of person she won't be interested in. She's right in saying that OP told her to change for a guy, it's just that OP didn't realize that's what they were doing.

There's a lot of internalized misogyny cope in this thread lol. I say this as a woman who shaves (when I'm not lazy). It's definitely bullshit we have to do it to be valuable to the majority of men. And honestly trailblazing women like OP's friend will likely make it so our daughters or granddaughters don't have to go through massive time-consuming routines just to pretend that being hairless is somehow more feminine than their natural bodies are.

We shouldn't discourage these women. We should empower and support them. They shouldn't change, men should change. It's just hair and they're already covered with it.

>trailblazing women

YTA

I think you're going to get some angry responses because a lot of people in this subreddit assume everyone posting is a man so of course you're going to be accused of supporting the patriarchy.

I think you're probably right that some of the guys she has gone out with are put off by her body hair. However, she likely doesn't want the kind of guy who would see body hair as a dealbreaker. She also didn't ask for your advice. It sounds like she was just venting. Let your friends vent and just listen. You don't have to offer advice. You can just offer support.

The same old 'venting' grows wearisome after a while and friend, a true friend, eventually should point out the obvious. She doesn't want a guy who sees that as a dealbreaker? All well and good, just keep in mind how few those guys are in American society.

OP makes no indication that the friend has often complained about this-which doesn't mean that isn't the case, but I would think OP would mention it if this was something the friend frequently complained to her about. So while I agree that repeatedly listening to the same complaints gets annoying, if that wasn't the case here, I don't really see a need for OP to speak up yet.

OP is also assuming that the friend's body hair is the issue, but jow would she know? The friend said she can never get past a first date, and I know we just got done with summer, but does OP know this friend always wears clothes that revealed her armpits or legs or both? Does OP know if the men the friend is going out with are just interested in hooking up and don't want to bother with someone looking for more? Does OP know if the friend has some other behavior that turns them off, or they talk about dealbreakers on the first date that reveals their incompatibility?

not shaving wouldn't deter all scrotes, but it probably is correlated with other s

Info: did she ask for advice or was she just venting?

Woah, yeah this is so important to the context. I still don't think it's proper "advice" or a solution to give. But good context to know.

redditors expect their friends to just be echochambers.

YTA... if body hair is a deal breaker for a man, it's not going to be a guy she would want to be with. You wouldn't tell a friend to lose weight too "get a man", so any variation of those is AH - wear makeup, shave, wear less makeup, wear different clothes, not those clothes the other ones....

People are entitled to their preferences - liking a beard on a guy, long hair, short hair, whatever. That is fine and not what is being judged here.

Of course you can tell a friend they need to lose weight to get a man. What kind of dishonest relationships do y'all have with "friends?"

This may come as a shock to much of Reddit but physical attraction is a huge part of relationships. And many men don't want to be with women that are as or more hairy than them. That can go both ways obviously, I wouldn't think twice of a woman expecting a man to groom themselves either.

If a man isn't attracted to me because of my weight or my body hair, then they aren't worth my time. I'm thankful for the filter that keeps the shallow ones away. Easy peasy.