:schopenmarsey: :marseybigbrain: ETHICS DEBATE #4: SIHAR - Super Intelligent Heroin Administering Robot :marppyenraged:

Let's jump from the past (Oppenheimer) to the deep future, and discuss whether freedom is a good thing or not.

Scenario

You are SIHAR - a Super Intelligent Heroin Administering Robot. The name is a bit of a misnomer - you are actually a cyborg, being a human brain augmented by a massive computer system and vast army of robotic bodies. You still, however, reason about things in the same way that a human being would.

Your sole purpose is to improve the lives of humans. You can use the massive computer system to determine exactly what will happen in the future, and what is most likely to improve the lives of humans, based upon a simulation of their brain and objective measures of happiness. (dopamine, serotonin, etc)

Through your extensive thinking, you have come to the conclusion that the optimal way to improve everyone's lives is to inject everyone with a constant stream of heroin. This will be done safely - there is no risk of overdose, as there will be machines hooked up to the humans to ensure this doesn't happen. The heroin will be administered in giant "pleasure domes", where people lay on beds, without moving, while drones deliver the drugs and ensure everyone is healthy.

Note that there are no limits to your knowledge - you are absolutely correct that every person will be much happier inside the pleasure dome than outside of it. There are also no limits to the production of heroin as the factories producing it are run autonomously with incredible efficiency.

In 2094, most people are lining up to enter the pleasure dome. However, there are a few people that refuse to enter.

These people, you are able to see, have some psychological qualms with the nature of the pleasure dome that cause them to view the dome as infantilizing, unfulfilling, and dehumanizing. However, you are also able to see that they genuinely would be happier inside of the pleasure dome - a result that you, again, arrived at by performing a perfect simulation of their brains.

You have, at your disposal, a fleet of robot bodies called "ManTrackers". These robots, when deployed, can locate, apprehend, and deliver humans to the pleasure dome.

Your question is: Would it be ethical to deploy the ManTrackers to force these people into the pleasure dome?

BONUS: Do you think the same thing about how mental hospitals restrict patient's freedoms?

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I’ve had a pet theory for a while, and I believe it wraps up perfectly into this scenario.

There are two types of “happiness” that a person can experience. There is the short term release of chemicals in your brain that give you the feeling of “happiness”, when your brain is flooded with serotonin/endorphins that you get from doing something thrilling/drugs/s*x and the long term happiness that is derived from accomplishing personal goals and accumulating memories. If you are constantly searching out the short term happiness, you are actually at a net negative for happiness as a whole because you are sacrificing your ability to generate long term happiness due to there being a finite number of hours available in life (if I’m laying in bed in the thunderdome pleasuredome I cannot be somewhere else interacting with people and achieving personal goals).

So this all goes back to the question at hand. This cyborg is measuring happiness based on short term chemical releases that produce “happiness”, which is in of itself a flawed way of viewing the lived experience. You can drug someone up from the moment they turn x years to the day they die and on their deathbed their overall life happiness will be compared to someone who had a fulfilling job, partner, and children and the results will be clear. One person has warm memories they can look back upon and be proud at what they accomplished with their life, the other will be all out of feel good brain chemicals and will be waiting for their last fent shot to put them back to sleep.

So, it’s extremely unethical because the cyborg, despite being all knowing, isn’t smarter than a smart thermostat.

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I absolutely agree with you in principle. I am just not sure about how the high of heroin compares to something like the joy of spending time with friends. I don't mean that I am doubtful, I mean that I literally don't know, and I don't want to try to find out :marseyxd:.

My hypothetical was based around a simple theory of pleasure which says that all pleasure is essentially the same, it's just that some pleasure lasts longer than other pleasure (masturbation lasts a few minutes, having a stable relationship lasts years to a lifetime, hence why a stable relationship is better than masturbation). On the other hand, this theory says that if a certain pleasure is unending, then it must be better. Since the pleasure of the heroin will be an unending intense pleasure, it must be superior.

I simply am not sure on this front. I can see why a person would doubt this. After all, there are multiple "reward" chemicals that we have in our brains, for instance, serotonin, which seems to be associated with interpersonal relationships and self-worth, and I don't know if there are any drugs that target these chemicals, as opposed to dopamine.

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having a stable relationship lasts years to a lifetime, hence why a stable relationship is better than masturbation

:#marseyxdoubt:

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Totally agree, my butt would get addicted in a heartbeat. So I guess I’ll never know.

However, I disagree that pleasure = happiness. In my mind, there is no difference in happiness between someone who lies in bed sober all day and one who in the same position but nodding off. The only difference is the pleasure someone is deriving from the experience.

Here’s another way to put it. Is it real happiness if something is required to get you to experience it? Like, my Dad gets pure, unadulterated happiness from seeing his children succeed in life. To get this feeling he doesn’t have to see us, hear from us, only to know that we exist and are doing well. Does a heroine user get the same feeling from reminiscing upon times when they were high? I would argue no.

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Doesnt the reward chemical receptor for drugs and such wear out from overuse, the reason why junkies need bigger hits eventually to get the same high or some more powerful drug, unless the cyborg somehow found a way to reverse that the pleasure domes have no way of lasting without ending up in mass overdose eventually or people not being happy from that hit anymore

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In my experiment I was assuming that there would be higher and higher hits and that there would be medical equipment that would prevent an overdose

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nah theres no way in heck a body can on repeat recover from overdoses, the heart will give out. But that aside and assuming that there has somehow this is sustainable, I have a secondary question. When would the cyborg decide its time for them to die, set age ?

In answer to your question, the cyborg if its truly all knowing should know not everyone wants such a thing and let them experience life the way they want, its a very primal nature of humans to be contrarian even if the cyborg is truly correct and freedom is just a false concept in the face of everlasting happiness

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:#marseywoah:

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>simple theory of pleasure which says that all pleasure is essentially the same

:aliendj: one:daydream: of the most r-slurred :cry:theory’s I’ve read here:bow:

When you pass:celebrate: a test:elephant: is this the same pleasure :horny: for you as falling in love?:hump::hearts:


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Long term happiness hits just right. You're having a bit of a boring day but then you remember all the hard work you've put in this decade and all the great things that are in your life due to your fidelity.

:#marseyembrace:

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That degree finally paying off

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