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Cloudflare tries to explain why it protects far-right forums that stalk and harass victims :!directlypointingsoyjak:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/31/cloudflare_kiwi_farm

:#soyquack::#soyquack::#soyquack::#soyquack::#soyquack:

On Wednesday content delivery network Cloudflare published a blog post explaining the circumstances under which abusive websites are eligible for service, just as a storm is brewing on that very topic.

Penned by CEO Matthew Prince and VP Alissa Starzak, global head of public policy, the post is titled "Cloudflare's abuse policies & approach." It tries to clarify why the company sometimes moderates abusive content and sometimes doesn't.

Cloudflare's policy tour doesn't address the post's timing, but it coincides with a campaign to convince the internet infrastructure biz to stop supporting Kiwi Farms, which those against the site describe as "a far-right hate forum where users create and participate in threads dedicated to the harassment of online figures, primarily featuring neuro-divergent and transgender individuals."

In 2019, following the mass shooting at a Christchurch mosque, New Zealand authorities had the country's ISPs block Kiwi Farms in response to site owner Joshua Moon's refusal to turn over data on posts related to the shooting.

More recently, Kiwi Farms has been linked to the harassment and doxing of trans streamer Clara Sorrenti, known as @keffals on Twitter and Twitch, who has been organizing with sympathetic members of the internet community to pressure Cloudflare to stop providing services to the forum.

Sorrenti not only had her personal information dug up and posted online, trolls sent armed police to her home in a swatting attack and had her arrested and detained for hours. When she sought refuge in a hotel, Kiwi Farms posters figured out where she was from a photo she shared, and let her know by sending pizza repeatedly to her room, forcing her to move from Airbnb to Airbnb rentals.

In years past, Cloudflare dropped other customers for hateful content, including neo-Nazi site The Daily Stormer (2017) and notorious message board 8chan (2019). But the company continues to provide security โ€“ its reverse proxy service โ€“ that helps Kiwi Farms defend against denial of service attacks and keeps the web forum online.

To hear Prince and Starzak tell it, Cloudflare has different standards for different products. It has an Acceptable Hosting Policy for hosted content, but doesn't apply those rules to its security offerings.

"Hosting products are those products where Cloudflare is the ultimate host of the content," said Prince and Starzak. "This is different from products where we are merely providing security or temporary caching services and the content is hosted elsewhere."

Prince and Starzak argue that Cloudflare's security service can be compared to a government-regulated common carrier, even though internet services are regulated differently than communication services. Phone-based harassment is one-to-one and is punishable under the Federal Communications Act.

"Just as the telephone company doesn't terminate your line if you say awful, racist, bigoted things, we have concluded in consultation with politicians, policy makers, and experts that turning off security services because we think what you publish is despicable is the wrong policy," their post says. "To be clear, just because we did it in a limited set of cases before doesnโ€™t mean we were right when we did. Or that we will ever do it again."

Not impressed

In response to Cloudflare's canned statement, Nicholas Weaver, senior researcher of networking and security at UC Berkeley's International Computer Science Institute, dismissed the corporation's rationalization.

"Cloudflare's excuse for protecting Kiwi Farms is bullshit: Their 'Security' product is content-delivery with DOS protection and hiding the real host," Weaver said via Twitter. "Cloudflare's continued support for Kiwi Farms despite the obvious violations of Cloudflare's own ToS is a deliberate act."

He continued, "Cloudflare explicitly supports Kiwi Farms and their speech. It isn't being neutral here, it is advocating and supporting a forum that is dancing all over the Brandenburg line, actively inciting imminent lawless action."

Alejandra Caraballo, clinical instructor at Harvard Law School's Cyberlaw Clinic, offered a similar response to Cloudflare's post.

"Cloudflare wants dead trans people," Caraballo saidย via Twitter. "This is their legacy by working with Kiwi Farms. They are knowingly complicit in the cyberstalking, harassment, and threatening of trans people to the point of suicide. They offer the protections that enable this to happen."

Those arguing for human rights have often invoked the phrase "silence is complicity," or a variation on that theme, to encourage active opposition to injustice. In his advocacy last year for COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act US President Joe Biden urged people to speak out against hatred. "Silence is complicity,"ย he said.

The Registerย asked Cloudflare to respond to Weaver's condemnation of the company's behavior, to explain how Kiwi Farms is not in violation of the company's Terms of Service, and to enumerate which injustices it will address and which it will ignore.

Cloudflare has not responded. ยฎ

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Nicholas Weaver, senior researcher of networking and security at UC Berkeley... "Cloudflare explicitly supports Kiwi Farms and their speech. It isn't being neutral here, it is advocating and supporting a forum that is dancing all over the Brandenburg line, actively inciting imminent lawless action."

We got a constitutional law expert here! :marseylaugh::marseylaugh::marseylaugh: Left-wing activist judges in the 1960s made incitement to violence legal as long as you're coy about it, but that doesn't really matter anyway. I'm pretty sure Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wouldn't have considered calling someone a fat ugly r-slur to be a "clear and present danger".

"Cloudflare wants dead trans people,"

:marseylaugh::marseylaugh::marseylaugh:

:marseylaugh::marseylaugh::marseylaugh:

:marseylaugh::marseylaugh::marseylaugh:

Are these people on that new meth?

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are these people on that new meth?

:#marseywalterwhite:

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No they're just genuinely dumb. Everything they say is strictly emotional, which means exaggerated beyond belief. The goal is to remove any and all objective analysis of the claims they make - to make it so anything they say is a self evident truth, above any form of debate or criticism.

:marseytrain2:s are as insane and extreme as nazis at this point.

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Lol you can't be serious

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Actually one of pizza's more cogent comments IMO

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Never thought Iโ€™d see pizza become what he tried to destroy :chudsey:

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Trains are fast becoming the new puritans, the religious nutjobs in the 1990s-2010s

:#marseyhorseshoe:

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They are the heirs to the evangelical fedora autism of the naughties. (the half that didn't :chudsey::!marseyhitler2::!marseytrump:)

![](/images/1662024658851549.webp)

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a common narrative involves leaving a community that practices some oppressive version of American Protestantism for scientific atheism

Much like there are addictive personalities, there are holier-than-thou personalities.

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The Evangelical Atheist is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a Neckbeard, Incel, Grifter, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him an Evangelical and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: โ€œIโ€™ve been found out.โ€ :!marseydetective::!marseypastor::!marseyneckbeard:

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Makes sense. The other day you were equating attempted swatting with swatting. Seems kinda dumb, but it adds up, chief.

:marseyshrug:

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Bro you are an evil fascist white supremacist for equating Nazis with heckin wholesome :marseytrain2:s

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Itโ€™s crazy how mask off universities are going with shit. Like the left-wing infiltration started in the 1960s but at least those commies had the sense of staying low and โ€˜merelyโ€™ indoctrinating students and talking among like minded peers. Nowadays, professors and heads of departments spew the most insane shit and still expect to retain credibility, publishing ability, and taxpayer funding.

If you remember the Hawley vs professor hearing a couple months ago, the most shocking thing was how the professor was smugly using โ€œyouโ€™re transphobicโ€ as a way to end the convo. Literal Redditor tier behavior from a person that somehow got the qualifications necessary to be a law professor at Berkeley. All colleges need to be burned down, not even just in Minecraft

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:marseyxd: IIRC even normies on reddit found the professor an embarrassment, although there were still people who probably watched a different hearing calling the BIPOC queen's performance brave and stunning against her mayo cis oppressor that was Josh Hawley

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Oh for sure the media and some leftoids were trying to spin it as a victory but normie Redditors mostly ignored it for the safer ground of โ€œRethuglikkkans hate women!!!!โ€

Just watched the argument again and itโ€™s even funnier than I remembered. The professor also uses the Reddit/Twitter argument of โ€œyouโ€™re committing genocide against transโ€. Itโ€™s become so common as a talking point I feel like people might not get what theyโ€™re actually saying is โ€œ:!marseytrain:s kill themselves a lot and if you hurt their feelings another one might do itโ€. The professor finishes off her masterclass in debating by asking Hawley if โ€œmen can get pregnantโ€, and when he answers no, itโ€™s back to โ€œyouโ€™re transphobic!!!โ€

Sheโ€™s randomly laughing at several points, idk if itโ€™s because Hawleys answers are soo funny to her or even she doesnโ€™t believe what sheโ€™s saying/virtue signaling. Either way, reality is yet again stranger than fiction

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:marseybooba: What a slaying queen with all those arguments! #Girlboss #winning

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but normie Redditors mostly ignored it for the safer ground of โ€œRethuglikkkans hate women!!!!โ€

![](/images/16620299496374452.webp)

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It's basically become the equivalent of the religious right. There is no bible or head figure but they have an ideology that they follow without question.

If someone does question it then they are either forced to reform (generally though shaming) or are excommunicated.

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Yeah as dumb as KiwiFarms is, Cloudflare is doing their job and I think it's probably a good thing they're being relatively neutral. Like I don't really care if KiwiFarms goes down (and they'll probably eventually get blown up anyway once people realize that it's pretty easy to find out where 1776 Hosting is located on the open internet), but I do like CloudFlare's relative neutrality.

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Whatโ€™s 1776 Hosting? :marseyreading:

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Joosh's self run ISP

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Are these people on that new meth?

You are surely old enough to remember politicians rabble-rousing with ostensibly insane statements. This is the same thing.

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Everybody "wants dead trans people," according to these people's worldview. Just shows that they're demented and have completely lost touch with reality.

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