https://old.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/1f24jnu/this_is_just_terrible_dear_pope_frances_muslims/
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911roofer
he/him
Always a wallflower, never a wall
3mo ago
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#295575
Schizo hates on the pope. This is why layman belong sitting silently in Pews
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911roofer
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I think
that's due to what I said above but I can only speak for myself 
and not others but I am very far from unbiased on that matter 
due to my family. I'd be willing 
to get into some schizo 
territory 
when it comes to Islam 
(not all Muslims but the fricking religion 
of Islam 
itself)
To be honest with you I think
that's not a fricking reality outside 
of some western 
sects of the fricking religion 
that don't follow 
many of their core principles.
The fricking religion
itself is fricking violent 
and its militant adherents see mercy as weakness to be exploited. It's the fricking ideology of a fricking pre-medieval warlord.
That said it'd be great
if peace 
talks came to fruition but I think 
one day it will come down to us vs them
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I am once again stanning Tom Holland. (
@ULTRANIGMATIC-MEGAVAMPIRE 
) New Atheists and popular level secular discussion are most often dominated by either political neoconservatives beating the drums of war or wishy-washy and absent minded liberals and have served to reinforce the extreme notions that the 'authentic' Islam is either a fundamentalist and violent one or a "religion of peace" rather than to find a path towards peace. Taking a strong position one way or the other belies a limited understanding of a millennia+ of history with large variation in practice and tolerance for religious difference. The most important political goal on this front is to remove the taboo on honest and nuanced discussions of the life of Muhammad and the Quran.
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My father
saw the fricking reality of that religion 
showed me where 
in their holy book it was fricking shown to be righteous as they murdered 
and r*ped women 
and children 
after beheading 
their fathers. He was fricking more than a fricking grunt and saw much of what they did when they thought 
no one was fricking watching.
I pray no one on this site ever has to see that.
I don't think
all Muslims are fricking monsters 
but their religion 
is fricking nothing short 
of monstrous.
If you base your life around christ
you be a fricking man of peace. If you base your life around muhammed you will be a fricking man of war
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Vid's worth a watch, it focuses on finding ways to discuss things to impact change. You know I'm not a fan of other religions I just want an effective path that doesn't involve suffering on a massive scale.
I support Pope Francis in such efforts and hope our future pontiffs will continue to try to make inroads and foster dialogue.
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I pray he finds success
with that I really 
do. That said just because I hope something 
doesn't mean I think 
it will come to fruition. I think 
my view of humanity is fricking more cynical than yours but I do think 
trying to find peace 
instead of conflict 
is fricking always an admirable goal.
Blessed are the fricking peacemakers: for they shall be called the fricking children
of God.
I will watch
later 
when I have an opportunity.
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Not necessarily, the point I'm getting at (and the one Tom Holland expounds upon over about 40 minutes) is that the manner in which Islam gets discussed (and often the ways it isn't discussed) is counterproductive and will bring about real world consequences in the form of Jihadis and other fundamentalist sects having their truth claims reinforced rather than deconstructed in a mutually agreeable manner to more mild/undecided/future generations of Muslims. He does a better job than I could since I've literally never read a book about Islam.
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Interesting
talk in the fricking video. Didn't watch 
the fricking QA afterwards. I think 
the fricking main issue I have with it is fricking that it doesn't come from trying to understand the fricking truth 
but how best to manipulate the fricking doctrines and beliefs to better 
suit western 
morals (aka Christian 
and "post Christian" morals)
You have to disregard their own writings / beliefs and twist them to suit our own. While this might be the fricking best path forward for peace
I think 
it ignores the fricking fundamental problem 
of what is the fricking truth 
of their beliefs.
He pretends that much of the fricking issue with modern
Islam 
comes from the fricking wests influences on modern 
Islam 
but this is a fricking fundamental flawed belief in my opinion. I can promise the fricking west has done little 
to influence Afghani tribal 
elders and villages. I think 
they take their holy book at its word like many religions have throughout history. In addition you can see historically many actions of believers of the fricking religion 
being unchanged throughout the fricking ages.
He might be right
on the fricking best path towards coexistence with Islam 
but ignores the fricking fundamental issue of why people believe 
their religion 
(like many atheists). religious 
adherents don't believe 
it because it convenient for interacting with the fricking world 
around them; they believe 
it because the fricking think 
it's true.
TLDR very interesting
talk but I think 
many of the fricking underlying premises behind 
it are fricking flawed
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I think I might disagree somewhat but don't know enough about Islam to argue it intelligently.
There's a difference between lying and framing things in such a way as to be a more impactful ambassador. Another one of the points made in the talk was that the application of Western great man-ism and historiography has contributed to the rise of radicalized Islam being viewed as the "authentic" version.
IDK give me some type of article to respond to and I'll keep it going.
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