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[tw: longpost] These :marseylibright: R-slurs are Gonna Get Kratom Banned :sharkyglow:

Like many savvy drugchads, :marseykingretard: I use kratom a few times a week in lieu of drinking. :marseydrunk: I find it works very well for this purpose, and my weekly alcohol :marseyjunkie2: consumption is far lower than it used to be. For the uninitiated kratom is a plant native to Southeast Asia :marseychingchong: that produces mild opiate-like effects when ingested, and is at the moment federally unregulated. As far as I know it cannot be converted into an injectable :marseymaid3: or insufflatable form which limits its abuse potential, though it does have non-zero addiction liability. The last time I picked up some kratom capsules :marseypills: from my friendly neighborhood head :marseyrasta: shop, I was offered a free :marseyrentfree: sample of a kava+kratom combination supplement :marseyjones: drink. I have only tried kava once previously many years ago so I thought what the heck, :marseyavril1: might as well. Kava is some kind of "sociability enhancement" plant extract from the South Pacific :marseylongsurfing: that I don't know a whole lot about, other than that it is generally considered non-addictive (unlike kratom). It was a Botanic Tonics "Feel Free" 2oz :!marseyshooting: shot. The label does not break down doses per drug beyond 2600mg of "proprietary blend" per 1oz serving.:marseysus:

I found this odd :marseybeanquestion: enough to warrant googling :marseyinvestigate: the product before consuming it, and I found I was not alone in my concern :marseytinfoil2: about the vague label. Much more worryingly, nearly every long term user report on this product claims it is ludicrously addictive. :marseyjunkie:

This :marseysnoo: post is probably the most extensive,:marseylong2:though there are others I will omit for brevity: https://old.reddit.com/r/kavakava/comments/t5wxtx/any_personal_thoughtsexperience_with_botanic/

Dozens of reddit comment chains :marseywords: detailing 10+ bottle/day dependence (so, what, 50g+ of kratom effective dose? :marseyishygddt:) and comparisons to heroin. :marseyjunkie: Consumption of kratom in quantities this extreme :marseysamhyde2: is normally difficult-to-impossible to achieve with traditional powdered plant kratom; you'll vomit :marseypuke: before you get anywhere near that amount. Unlike kratom by itself*, kava is immediately dangerous :marseyill: to consume in excess quantities on a regular basis so there are reports of addicts experiencing :marseybedsick: liver and skin problems as a result. Amidst the flailing and lamenting and speculation :marseyschizowall: about unlisted dangerous additives, some blame :marseynoyou: users and addicts for not doing enough research on kratom before getting hooked on this supplement :marseyindignant: chalking all of the dramatic :marseypearlclutch: reports up to normal :marseychartgaussian: kratom effects. More on this later.

*still a bad idea, this is pretty deep into addict territory even if it won't necessarily hospitalize :marseyplaguedoctor: you on its own so long as you don't have a metabolic disorder

Someone created a support group :npcsupport: sub for addicts just a few days ago: https://old.reddit.com/r/Quittingfeelfree/

The support sub is pretty amateur-hour, :marseygigaretard: but contains some additional key information. Users claim it has been marketed to young adults :marseyzoomer: and college students as an alcohol alternative (fair enough, a lot of people use kratom for this purpose including myself), often by social media (((influencer))) :marseybluecheck: types. Their website also lists some official(?) endorsements from some pretty big name :marseycoonass: schools. Users claim its availability is not limited to smoke shops, and that it can be found at 7-11s :marseytunaktunak: nationwide (any millennial dramanauts remember k2 and how that ended up working out? :marseybowl::marseydead::marseyshutitdown::marseycop:). User photos reveal that the label/formula has changed at least once, :marseymeds: from 3500mg down to 2600mg. The product entered the market :marseystocksup: right around a year ago, :marseycapy2022: and the company behind it has had comments on their social media profiles disabled :marseyamogus: for an unknown length of time.

Most critically: :marseymisinformation: none of the marketing for this product mentions that it contains kratom. It is marketed as a kava-only supplement. Normies :marseyregular: are buying this stuff without knowing about the kratom content, much less what kratom is :marseyclueless: and how to use it safely, :marseykys2: and then being surprised that it is :marseyaware: habit-forming. The only reference to kratom in any of their officially :bluehelmet: published content is the ingredients list label on the bottles and the screenshot :marseyprojection: of the same label on their website FAQ. Their website (which I won't link but is easily googleable) offers subscription services :marseybangfast: for the stuff, indicating they know darn well :marseyrapscallion: what they're doing. I would not have guessed that it contained any kratom when observing it on the store shelf, and I would have avoided :marseynope: it under the assumption that it was a snake :marseysnek: oil supplement if not for the smoke :marseyjoint: shop employee explaining :marseyakshually: that it contains kratom.

I have to give these guys credit for pulling off a Juul-tier :marseyvapecrying: heist so far. Exploitation of unregulated addictive substances on this scale :marseyobesescale: is not easy to pull off. The bottles retail for $10 :marseycapitalistmanlet: each. The problem is that this :marseyfine: will inevitably result in a blanket ban :marseyban: on kratom when someone at the NYT :marseyjourno: catches wind and writes a thinkpiece on how teh poor (college-aged) :marseygrad: childwenz :marseybib: are getting hooked on this evil :marseyevilgrin: dwug.

I took half of the bottle while writing :marseylongpost: this, and other than taking effect a lot faster :marseytwerkingfast: than I'm used to (~10 minutes vs 30-45+ minutes :marseytime: depending on my stomach contents) it feels pretty much exactly like normal kratom. IIRC shorter :marseymanlet: onset times correlate :marseychartscatter: with greater addiction liability, so that may explain some of the hysteria over this. I dunno. All I do know is I'm gonna be really frickin buttmad :marseyrage: when this inevitably results in a federal ban.

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Very interesting writeup, thanks. I hadn't heard of this specific brand. I've heard about kava and kratom being a good combo but haven't gotten around to trying it yet, and I think kratom extracts are a bit of a scam considering the usual prices for a single 4 hour dose (shit's almost as expensive as cocaine and a lot less euphoric). Also, 10 minute onset time? Probably just because it's an extract, right?

>shorter :marseymanlet: onset times correlate :marseychartscatter: with greater addiction liability

True, mainly because shorter onset usually correlates with higher peak effects and quicker offset, so you get an urge to re-dose. Theoretically though there should be a massive tolerance bump when taking an extract, to the point where it might cause you to need to take 1.5x the dose to feel the same effect just a few hours later. That's what people usually report when talking about kratom extracts. I wonder if the kava is somehow reducing the tolerance build-up? (Good thing these guys haven't figured out that you can just take 30mg of DXM an hour before taking kratom to almost completely reset your tolerance, lol)

Either way I've known kratom was next to the chopping block since I started seeing it advertised in every gas station. They usually have those shitty OPMS extract capsules and 'shots' which are just as bad as the OP shit but don't contain kava and aren't advertised to r-slurred kids on instagram. RIP kratom, in advance. :marseydepressed:

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Are you feeling okay bud?

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:#marseysadcat:

n-not really

thanks for asking LPB

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I have avoided extracts myself for the same reasons (just wait the extra half hour for the powder to kick in lol it isn't complicated, and it's infinitely cheaper since I don't do it frequently enough to have a significant tolerance and can buy bulk capsules), so I'm not actually sure whether this was an extract product or not. I only had a single hash brown in my stomach when I took it so that may have also been a factor in the fast onset; I normally dose an hour or two after a full meal. It had the conspicuous texture of dissolved kratom powder, but the taste was so thoroughly masked by whatever they mix it in (pineapple juice and stevia I think?) that I couldn't evaluate it on taste. I suspect it was an extract because I assume the taste would be overwhelmingly strong if it wasn't.

No idea regarding the kava interactions, the 'nautwiki entry is still a sparsely written draft article and I haven't bothered looking into it further. I'll have to try the DXM tip if this thing ended up messing with my tolerance, thanks :marseythumbsup:

I recognize those OPMS capsules but I've always gone for the cheaper options and wasn't even aware those were an extract product. Don't think I've ever seen their shots, but I haven't ever looked for them either.

aren't advertised to r-slurred kids on instagram

This is gonna be what kills it. It's being shilled to naive upper middle class kids now, so once they start getting hooked en mass daddy government will be expected to "fix" it :vulgar:

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