Reading actual history, he was one of the absolute worst generals of the entire war, in either western front, eastern front, or pacific theater
The only reason why there is any level of modern reverence to the man, is because he was a massive Madonna, and utilized a massive public relations program for his image back into burgerland
Virtually every fricking time, the Pacific High command ignored his stupidity, they hastened america's island hopping victories
Not to mention he came the closest in US history to defying civilian control of the military, which is the only thing that separates civilized man from the beasts
When? Post WW2 pretty absolute, it was almost a semi-militerized state for 6 decades straight, there was never any chance for a general to defy the prime minister in any meaningful way, the apartheid era government was pretty united on the military and civil level - the fear of communism was so profound, that it united them, including white bongs and boers, in a manner which is hard to describe
I know a lot of people today have no grasp of a Red Scare hysteria or fear of nuclear Armageddon, but back then it proliferated all readings and speeches and thinking of people in the period of 1950-1989. The fear of communism made people into a difficult to describe irrational rationalism, where it was better to remain a united people (for whites) than to divide the country and be picked off piecemeal by the evergrowing influence of the Soviets.
I've seen a couple of dramatards perceive me talking about communism as if it was a pitiable excuse for whites to uphold apartheid, but back then the terror was so fricking profound amongst the afrikaans, that there were daily hysterical breakouts amongst women fainting lol.
A common doomsaying was that Cuban and african communist forces would obliterate all anti-communist forces, and the SADF would have a last stand on the Orange river, the largest river in the country, and biggest natural feature from which to man a plausible defense against tanks, from a North-South divide, in a massive push all the way from Angola and northern Mozambique.
The doomsaying was a constant talk, and took inspiration from the Pusan river battle, the last natural feature from which the Yanks and Republic of Korea forces were able to just barely hold on against North Korean blitzkrieg, in the 1950 Korea-war, south africans took inspiration from these events that a similar horror was in store for us, but without the benefit of Yank superior airpower and aircraft carrier battle groups to swing the tide.
Because of thoughts and thinking patterns like this, for the duration of the High Apartheid era, to answer your question, the Union of SA leadership was always pretty ironclad, with inter-department fights, but nothing approaching insurrection, even if some populist general had the ability
So the military obeyed faithfully and it was just a consensus, were coloured and blacks mistreated in the army back then?
I've seen a couple of dramatards perceive me talking about communism as if it was a pitiable excuse for whites to uphold apartheid, but back then the terror was so fricking profound amongst the afrikaans
Same with the threat of communism looming over Latam. Except than unlike South Africa, the Brazilian military was a political actor on its own right (a state within a state the Civil government had no full control of until after 1985).
Like most afrikaans agree that the reason, 70% of whites voted to end Apartheid in the 1990 referendum held by De Klerk, the last white president, was because the Soviet Union had collapsed, and it was like the fear of an international red-scare had evaporated overnight,
and with that absence of an internal fear, the control which the NP regime had excersized over its white population via propaganda, had also gone limp - other say that De klerk and the white population saw the writings on the wall for international relations, but that these two factors worked in tandem is often agreed, depending on the historian themselves off
with that absence of an internal fear, the control which the NP regime had excersized over its white population via propaganda, had also gone limp - other say that De klerk and the white population saw the writings on the wall for international relations, but that these two factors worked in tandem is often agreed, depending on the historian themselves off
I imagine that without the threat of communist expansion the US have no excuses to avoid placing hard sanctions on South Africa. But wasn't the regime already overstretched by 1990? I mean, 5 million whites ruled over 35 million people who were treated either as second class citizens or foreigners with no rights, plus black Fertility Rate was higher, wasn't the Government concerned about low white birth rates?
BushWasRightfree/dom
There's no ideology but liberal democracy and Fukuyama is its prophet
johannesalthusius 7mo ago#6250337
spent 0 currency on pings
James Gavin fricked over market garden (although his bong superiors should have checked his paranoia and told him the reason his fricking division is being paradropped is to take the fricking bridge not some hills to the east)
Joseph Stilwell was given command of few good troops china had left, and proceed to yeet them away by ignoring advice from their Chinx commanders. He then fled the battle while most of his army was disorganized but still fighting. Having fricked up Chinese war effort bigly, he proceed to blame it all on Chinx incompetence/corruption, contributing to Truman abandoning them to commies. He then wrote his memoirs saying that Chiang China was so fricked up commie victory was inevietable, which was picked up by academia and got him whitewashed as it was 'Nam already and commie 5th columnists wanted to pretend the same applies to Norks.
And while admirals aren't generals, William Halsey Jr. fricked off from protecting invasion troops in Philippines chasing literal , leading to costliest US naval battle of the war, and it's a miracle it wasn't a defeat followed by slaughter of troop transports.
(at the same time US fleet subordinated to Big Mac actually did their fricking job and sank Jap southern force without losses)
Also Big Mac was bigly influential in rebuilding Japan and making it a functional country, at a time when Washington decision makers focused on euros and didn't give two fricks about Asia.
You really love slurping British peepee, don't you?
If Gavin made mistakes he certainly wasn't the only one, and he was acting on bad intelligence. Which was bad because everything in Market-Garden was done in a rushed, reckless, and half-assed way. And we all know which cricket enthusiast is to blame for that.
Again with Stillwell, the British needed a scapegoat for their disasters in Burma and duplicity in doing everything possible to undermine the Chinese war effort in hopes of hobbling Chang's regime postwar.
He then wrote his memoirs saying that Chiang China was so fricked up commie victory was inevietable
This is what happens when everything you know you get from Eurotrash youtubers like Mark Felton instead of actually reading the fricking book. He died almost immediately after the war and his wife published a collection of his diaries and various notes he'd written during the war. This material was written contemporaneously, not after the war to justify himself. The fact that you believe it was indicates you've been lied to, are r-slurred, or both.
US fleet subordinated to Big Mac actually did their fricking job and sank Jap southern force
Yeah it was all thanks to MacArthur's brilliant naval strategy.
His reputation for being an r-slur is as exaggerated by his critics (especially in the age of youtube and zoomers) as his reputation for being a genius by his supporters of the time.
The best impression I've gotten of him is from Ridgway who worked directly with him, certainly was qualified to judge, and was not a butthurt political wingcuck. He pointed out that nobody else but MacArthur would have recognized the opportunity at Incheon, have the guts to try it, and be able to sell it to the joint chiefs. On the other hand he made some big mistakes afterward like shifting X Corps to the east coast that were typical of him.
If you look at his campaigns in WW2 he knew how to integrate air, land, and sea power in a way that few other leaders had to. Mistakes were made but he wiped out a huge part of the Japanese military and secured the bases in the Philippines that we would have needed to invade Japan at relatively little cost.
He also had a tendency to go to pieces when things went wrong (Philippines 1941, Korea) and just become catatonic for days. That's less a matter of r-sluration and more of some kind of mental illness.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
He was just a r-slur, America's most overrated general
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Reading actual history, he was one of the absolute worst generals of the entire war, in either western front, eastern front, or pacific theater
The only reason why there is any level of modern reverence to the man, is because he was a massive Madonna, and utilized a massive public relations program for his image back into burgerland
Virtually every fricking time, the Pacific High command ignored his stupidity, they hastened america's island hopping victories
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Not to mention he came the closest in US history to defying civilian control of the military, which is the only thing that separates civilized man from the beasts
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
The Brazilian Armed Forces in shambles
@kaamrev how much control did civil government and the NP had over the South African Defense Force?
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
When? Post WW2 pretty absolute, it was almost a semi-militerized state for 6 decades straight, there was never any chance for a general to defy the prime minister in any meaningful way, the apartheid era government was pretty united on the military and civil level - the fear of communism was so profound, that it united them, including white bongs and boers, in a manner which is hard to describe
I know a lot of people today have no grasp of a Red Scare hysteria or fear of nuclear Armageddon, but back then it proliferated all readings and speeches and thinking of people in the period of 1950-1989. The fear of communism made people into a difficult to describe irrational rationalism, where it was better to remain a united people (for whites) than to divide the country and be picked off piecemeal by the evergrowing influence of the Soviets.
I've seen a couple of dramatards perceive me talking about communism as if it was a pitiable excuse for whites to uphold apartheid, but back then the terror was so fricking profound amongst the afrikaans, that there were daily hysterical breakouts amongst women fainting lol.
A common doomsaying was that Cuban and african communist forces would obliterate all anti-communist forces, and the SADF would have a last stand on the Orange river, the largest river in the country, and biggest natural feature from which to man a plausible defense against tanks, from a North-South divide, in a massive push all the way from Angola and northern Mozambique.
The doomsaying was a constant talk, and took inspiration from the Pusan river battle, the last natural feature from which the Yanks and Republic of Korea forces were able to just barely hold on against North Korean blitzkrieg, in the 1950 Korea-war, south africans took inspiration from these events that a similar horror was in store for us, but without the benefit of Yank superior airpower and aircraft carrier battle groups to swing the tide.
Because of thoughts and thinking patterns like this, for the duration of the High Apartheid era, to answer your question, the Union of SA leadership was always pretty ironclad, with inter-department fights, but nothing approaching insurrection, even if some populist general had the ability
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Rooi gevaart, Swart gevaart heh
So the military obeyed faithfully and it was just a consensus, were coloured and blacks mistreated in the army back then?
Same with the threat of communism looming over Latam. Except than unlike South Africa, the Brazilian military was a political actor on its own right (a state within a state the Civil government had no full control of until after 1985).
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Like most afrikaans agree that the reason, 70% of whites voted to end Apartheid in the 1990 referendum held by De Klerk, the last white president, was because the Soviet Union had collapsed, and it was like the fear of an international red-scare had evaporated overnight,
and with that absence of an internal fear, the control which the NP regime had excersized over its white population via propaganda, had also gone limp - other say that De klerk and the white population saw the writings on the wall for international relations, but that these two factors worked in tandem is often agreed, depending on the historian themselves off
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I imagine that without the threat of communist expansion the US have no excuses to avoid placing hard sanctions on South Africa. But wasn't the regime already overstretched by 1990? I mean, 5 million whites ruled over 35 million people who were treated either as second class citizens or foreigners with no rights, plus black Fertility Rate was higher, wasn't the Government concerned about low white birth rates?
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
The np regime was already losing internal support, and probably would not have even made it to the year 2000
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
OUT!
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
James Gavin fricked over market garden (although his bong superiors should have checked his paranoia and told him the reason his fricking division is being paradropped is to take the fricking bridge not some hills to the east)
Joseph Stilwell was given command of few good troops china had left, and proceed to yeet them away by ignoring advice from their Chinx commanders. He then fled the battle while most of his army was disorganized but still fighting. Having fricked up Chinese war effort bigly, he proceed to blame it all on Chinx incompetence/corruption, contributing to Truman abandoning them to commies. He then wrote his memoirs saying that Chiang China was so fricked up commie victory was inevietable, which was picked up by academia and got him whitewashed as it was 'Nam already and commie 5th columnists wanted to pretend the same applies to Norks.
And while admirals aren't generals, William Halsey Jr. fricked off from protecting invasion troops in Philippines chasing literal , leading to costliest US naval battle of the war, and it's a miracle it wasn't a defeat followed by slaughter of troop transports.
(at the same time US fleet subordinated to Big Mac actually did their fricking job and sank Jap southern force without losses)
Also Big Mac was bigly influential in rebuilding Japan and making it a functional country, at a time when Washington decision makers focused on euros and didn't give two fricks about Asia.
!historychads
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
You really love slurping British peepee, don't you?
If Gavin made mistakes he certainly wasn't the only one, and he was acting on bad intelligence. Which was bad because everything in Market-Garden was done in a rushed, reckless, and half-assed way. And we all know which cricket enthusiast is to blame for that.
Again with Stillwell, the British needed a scapegoat for their disasters in Burma and duplicity in doing everything possible to undermine the Chinese war effort in hopes of hobbling Chang's regime postwar.
This is what happens when everything you know you get from Eurotrash youtubers like Mark Felton instead of actually reading the fricking book. He died almost immediately after the war and his wife published a collection of his diaries and various notes he'd written during the war. This material was written contemporaneously, not after the war to justify himself. The fact that you believe it was indicates you've been lied to, are r-slurred, or both.
Yeah it was all thanks to MacArthur's brilliant naval strategy.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I need :marseyredactor0hesright:
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
PlsRope
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
His reputation for being an r-slur is as exaggerated by his critics (especially in the age of youtube and zoomers) as his reputation for being a genius by his supporters of the time.
The best impression I've gotten of him is from Ridgway who worked directly with him, certainly was qualified to judge, and was not a butthurt political wingcuck. He pointed out that nobody else but MacArthur would have recognized the opportunity at Incheon, have the guts to try it, and be able to sell it to the joint chiefs. On the other hand he made some big mistakes afterward like shifting X Corps to the east coast that were typical of him.
If you look at his campaigns in WW2 he knew how to integrate air, land, and sea power in a way that few other leaders had to. Mistakes were made but he wiped out a huge part of the Japanese military and secured the bases in the Philippines that we would have needed to invade Japan at relatively little cost.
He also had a tendency to go to pieces when things went wrong (Philippines 1941, Korea) and just become catatonic for days. That's less a matter of r-sluration and more of some kind of mental illness.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
I like Ike
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context