https://rdrama.net/h/vidya/post/298623/youre-not-playing-any-of-these/6989597#context
!lgbt !cuteandvalid !cuteandinvalid !historychads okay but whos right here i have to know
white extinction is long overdue
/h/erstory
ticktocktrainbuteepy
lol/lmao/even
dont talk to me
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Were the greeks cute twinks? @Miffin and @GigaNew2024Account have a 20+ comment long slapfight about it, featuring many a longpost.
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Brasillguana
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Is it really dramatic? Then just put it in the main feed.
Is it chuddy? (Be honest.) Then /h/chudrama.
Is it from back in old boomer times or before?
This is the place for it.
Feel free to talk about history here at
whatever level of seriousness you feel like.
/h/erstory SETTINGS /h/erstory LOG /h/erstory MODS /h/erstory EXILEES /h/erstory FOLLOWERS /h/erstory BLOCKERS
Live commit: 94a8752
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No, they were pederasts and the idea that they practiced what was nearly an entirely new form of homosexuality being promoted in the 70s by having groups of like aged soldiers bang each other was made up based on using garbage sources that were going off a hypothetical situation brought up in plato's symposium.
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Yes, Plato himself made up every story of Greek 'homosexual' heroes.
Is Xenophon's Symposium also a hypothetical situation? Contemporaneous
And the Sacred Band would've probably been pederastic also
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The guy who wrote in Hellenica that there's a really good book about this cool guy named Xenophon (the Anabasis) by Themistogenes of Syracuse? And wrote the Cyropaedia which required pretty detailed knowledge of Persian culture? And wrote the Cynegeticus, a guide for new dog owners?
You've gotta be incredibly naive to believe these were all written by the same guy just because that's what it says on the spine on the copy that came to you.
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I don't really see a reason to disbelieve Xenophon wrote the Symposium. Who else could have (and even if it was someone else, why not contemporaneous)? There was a habit of falsely attributing works to authors back then, for sure, but polymathic authors still existed.
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I'm not saying he wasn't a polymath. I'm not saying one of the particular works wasn't by him. I'm saying that just internally from the Hellenica it's clear that Xenophon the soldier, the author of the Hellenica, and the author of the Anabasis are three different people. We're left with the lesser known works which are totally different from each other in content and style. At that point I'm not even 100% convinced the guy was literate.
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I don't really see much evidence that the author of the Anabasis is not the author of the Hellenica, other than the statement of the latter. But Themistogenes of Syracuse is not a real person.
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Oh ffs come on. It's rare that we actually get information about the author from within the document, and when we finally do you just ignore it in favor of... I dunno? How far can we even trace back the claim that Xenophon was the author?
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OK, that's fair. And we can trace it back to Plutarch.
But why would Xenophon make this citation? And why is this Themistogenes so scantily mentioned? Why is he not mentioned more in, well, the Anabasis? Why was there disagreement over this in the first place? Wouldn't have Themistogenes been mentioned in some collection, or catalogue, so that there would have been awareness of his existence later on?
EDIT: Technically, the earliest source for quoting the Anabasis as Xenophon's is Strabo, but it's not really explained like in Plutarch.
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I don't think we necessarily would have seen him mentioned. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I don't know where you'd go to get reliable information about authors going that far back. I've looked up a lot of them in Suda and it's just bewildering. According to the Suda everyone in history has 5 possible origin stories and in 2 of them they aren't even Greek.
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Leave me alone i want to talk to non r-slurs
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Can you at least mention who this "gay dude from the 70s", the mastermind of the homosexual agenda of the classics, is supposed to be?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Homosexuality_(book)
That is where basically every modern idea of greek homosexuality co es from and is an incredibly flawed book. Though i was wrong about the author being gay.
Also yes Xenophon's Symposium is the same type of hypothetical work as plato's symposium
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The given excerpt is serious about something actually occurring in real life. Xenophon claims to have attended, it's a work partly apologetic of Socrates, why would he tarnish the legitimacy of such a work with an off-hand comment? What use would there even possibly come from making up such a story, when there were already stories of pederasty involving Thebes? So, it's still not something made up by a gay, or not gay dude, from the 1970s. You even have material evidence, which is rare for such a thing, which I alluded to with the picture- the Chaeronean grave. There is much more evidence for the view of its existence, and some kind of homosexual practice, than that it was somehow single-handedly made up by Plato, and his circle; certainly not by a dude from the 1970s.
You can criticise the work, but Dover did not originate the idea of the homosexual Sacred Band, and similar. Those are directly from classical texts. To say they're all somehow made up (even if we reject eg. the Sacred Band), is just conspiratorial.
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You have literally never heard of this shit until i just brought it up to you so how about you shut the frick up and stop pretending like you now what you are talking about?
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As a matter of fact, I had, but whatever. Otoh, you falsely claim that Dover is the originator of all these ideas, because you read it online- a ridiculous apologia I am also familiar with, as I have seen this claim enough times, in the form of low quality infographics shared to 'debunk' homosexual practice in ancient Greece.
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Yeah i'm sure. Maybe you should take this guys advice
https://rdrama.net/h/vidya/post/298623/youre-not-playing-any-of-these/6990461#context
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