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Why Nabokov didn't like Dostoyevsky? :marseysaluteussr: :marseyrussian: :marseyrussiadolls:

!bookworms thoughts?

Here is Vladimir Nabokov's :#marseylongpost: :#marseylongpost: :#marseylongpost: on why Dostoyevsky was a :#marseymid: writer

https://old.reddit.com/r/literature/comments/17n8lrt/why_did_nabakov_dislike_dostoyevsky_so_much/

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/23/magazine/nabokov-on-dostoyevsky.html

@TR

One of the key facts about Nabokov is that he was a cranky old man his whole life.

Lmao

Hemingway talks about Dostoyevsky's unique style quite a lot in A Moveable Feast.

One famous quote is: “I've been wondering about Dostoyevsky. How can a man write so badly, so unbelievably badly, and yet make you feel so deeply.”

:#marseyxd:

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Nabokov was a big prose guy, and style is one of Dostoevsky's weaker areas, to put it nicely.

Also nabokov was always kind of cranky. He didn't like a lot of authors, some of whom were arguably or clearly great, or even greater than him. Aside from dosto, he hated, with direct quotes:

Faulkner ("To consider them masterpieces is an absurd delusion")

Eliot ("Not quite first-rate.")

Pound (" A total fake. A venerable fraud.)

Plato (" Not particularly fond of him.")

Tagore ("A formidable mediocrity.")

Mann ("Second-rate, ephemeral, puffed-up.")

Gorky ("A formidable mediocrity.")

Celine ("Second-rate. A tense-looking but really very loose type of writing.")

Wilde ("Rank moralist and didacticist")

So yeah, bit of a contrarian lol

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I can definitely see Nabokov's arguments and would agree that Dostoevsky is in some sense less artful than other great writers, but I also think it's hard to ignore the stylistic clash that is likely at the root of his distaste.

What it boils down to, in my opinion, is that Dostoevsky wrote in a time when modernism was emerging, but his work is decidedly anti-modern, really kind of romantic in nature. This fact, combined with his lack of attention to style compared to Nabokov, a notoriously fussy stylist, earns him very little goodwill compared to his contemporaries who present similar problems, but in a modern and stylistically palatable way.

Tolstoy, for example, is at least partially guilty of several of the sins Nabokov named. You can't tell me characters like Levin in Anna Karenina, or Pierre in War and Peace aren't at times ridiculous, mouth pieces for Tolstoy's big religious and political ideas. The key difference is that Tolstoy restrains himself and presents more varied characters in a realistic setting. And yes I agree that makes him more artful, but this is also a difference of romantic idealism vs. modern literary realism and not just an issue of quality.

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That degree finally paying off

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People won't admit it but Dostoevsky is for undergraduate teenage boys wanting to feel deep and edgy. You read him then and think he's the best shit ever, then you go back as an adult and see him as emotionally pretentious. A bottle of vodka gets spilled and the narrator goes on a 5 page monologue about Russia's religious destiny, an emotionally unavailable woman teases a character and the character goes goombling for ten pages. The characters being all being emotionally unstable or having epilepsy gets old after a while.

I mean he's actually a great author but very overrated.

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>an emotionally unavailable woman teases a character and the character goes goombling for ten pages.

>emotionally unstable

That's an entirely normal thing to do

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an emotionally unavailable woman teases a character and the character goes goombling for ten pages.

I see you have read the gambler

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He considered him a failed reactionary journ*list. My guess was he viewed his books as too politically charged and trying to hard to be realistic.

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Glory to Russia! :marseysaluteussr:

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Thoughts on the House of Romanov?

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:#marseyazov:

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My biggest gripe with dostoevski is his dialogue. Unless there's some insane cultural barrier between us and 19th century ruskies it's impossible to believe in any of his dialogues.

Did this man ever talk with anyone in his life?

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I've been reading some criticism on Dostoyevsky, Nabokov included, and dialogue is one of them.

His characters are sort of philosophical mouthpieces going on long monologues. I still remember Mermeladov's rambling in C&P which is an example.

I know you're not a fan of Tolstoy, but you wont see those long ramblings on Anna Karenina, the characters are much more fleshed out and the dialogue is realistic even if the story is kind of mid.

What do you guys think !bookworms?

Speaking on ruskies, my mom brought me a Chekhov book from her trip to Santiago :marseyflagchile:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17175322678954854.webp

I love the cover

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All my real life dialogue is unrealistic :marseyautism:

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>His characters are sort of philosophical mouthpieces going on long monologues.

:marseyagree: He conveys what the character itself "thinks" very well, but it's really forced and inorganic.

>I know you're not a fan of Tolstoy, but you wont see those long ramblings on Anna Karenina, the characters are much more fleshed out and the dialogue is realistic even if the story is kind of mid.

Yeah, it's a dostoevksi issue not an old book issue.

Have you read Dom Quixote? The dialogue is unironically hillarious and feels very human and realistic even though it was written like 500 years ago

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Notes from the Underground is basically a whiny /r9k/ post stretched out to 100 pages, so in the sense of resembling internet wahhh wahhs it can be realistic dialogue.

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Exactly. Dostoyevski was dunking on bitter volcels before bitter volcels. and if its a whiney r9k post then his dialogue is exactly right.

Tell me those spergs wouldn't biploarly flick between telling a woman theyll whisk her away ti a better life before losing their shit and berating her out of self-hatred.

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That one was my favorite. It felt so experimental. I wonder what I'd think of it 20+ years later :marseyhmm:

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It's been ages since I read it, but I what I mean is that while the characters and their motivations are plausible, the way they interact/talk to each other is just :vomit:

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Have you read Dom Quixote? The dialogue is unironically hillarious and feels very human and realistic even though it was written like 500 years ago

Yes, but years ago. I'm considering re-reading it. I have the RAE edition

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17175330314776902.webp

It has some archaic spanish words but the language is quite accessible. Don Quixote doesn't feel like a 17th century novel, it reads as if it was much more modern, I agree on the realism plus the book a satire of “libros de caballeriza”

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The man goombled too hard

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NABOKOV WAS AN EXPAT-CEL DIASPORABIPOC ANYWAYS

@Communist_spez stand with israel

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Nabokov was based and I will die on that hill :#marseyindignant:

He was also a terrific writer, Pale Fire is one of my favorite novels and I find it impressive how a Russian had such a command of the English language

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Pale Fire is so good :marseyagree:

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dostoevsky outscales him on the based scale im afraid

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>sonya, a prostitute, is a trad wojak

lol

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I can't believe Dostoevsky predicted OnlyFans trad thots and neurodivergent mass murderers with no real motive

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:#marseyminimalism2:

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