!neolibs Saruman the White and Sauron both impulsed the industrialization of Middle Earth (the first even brought industrialization to the distant Shire!) while Rohan and Gondor were focused in keeping their agricultural realms and Elves were focused on migrating after millennia of ruling over forests.
Their coalition was also the only diverse one, including orcs, goblins, Uruk Hais, Dunlendings and Eastlings while the Kingdoms of the West were ethnostates and also monarchies favoring the ethnic supremacist Numenorean lineage.
Just how close was Saruman of patenting steam machinery?
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Numenor was already steam punk nation, but they were a nation of atheist degenerates, so God sunk those secular fricks for being neckbeards
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/N%C3%BAmenor
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Numenor was also arguably the most imperialistic power in Middle Earth history as they colonized the entire western coast of Middle Earth to harvest wood for ship building since they were primarily a naval power.
A lot of the "evil men" that Sauron and Saruman use like the Dunlendings were groups whose ancestors were pushed out into the mountains by the Numenorians in the Second Age.
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Meanwhile on the "Rangz of Power" show they're preparing to make Ar-Pharazon the Middle-Earth version of Drumpf. Season 1 had Numenoreans rant about elves migrating and taking der jerbs. The evil conservative Numenoreans also opposed helping the elves or anyone on the mainland and their Kween went to help against their will
So instead of an imperialistic superpower now they're an America First allegory.
!nooticers
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Despite all of its faults at least GoT was purely fantasy and not frickin bullshit allegory
Until the weird democracy discussion shoehorned in at the end anyway
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At least everyone, including Sansa and Arya laughed when Sam proposed that
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Yeah the show is all fricked up because they're trying to tie two overall plot points (forging of the rings and the downfall of Numenor) as taking place at the exact same time when in reality there was at least 1000 years in between these two events in the books.
In the actual time of the forging of the rings Numenor was definitely an ally of the elves and went to Middle Earth to help the elves against Sauron but Eregion was destroyed before they got there. The Numenorians routed Sauron and the Orcs back to Mordor tho.
The souring of the Numenorians against the elves was a drawn out centuries long process that started in the following centuries (they turned away from elven languages towards Aldunic or however it's spelled) and the capture of Saruon by Ar-Pharazon in Umbar being the straw that broke the camel's back.
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I can actually understand merging the timelines and making the forging of the rings and the fall of Numenor close for cinematic purposes as a show with events separated by centuries apart will not be very compelling for watchers, the Peter Jackson trilogy also evaded the time gap between Gandalf's departure and his return to the Shire 17 years later.
But the show-runners made cardboard characters with bad storylines (Gandalf on the Second Age and proto-hobbits, why?), even the settings look cheap despite the show costing hundreds of millions of dollars. Being a bad adaptation is one thing, a film or show can be a poor adaptation but be good on it's own rights, but being a bad show makes it un-salvageable.
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Not atheists, but literal Satanists worshipping Melkor.
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i forgot, im not a mega Tolkien fan
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Sauron is captured by the Numenoreans and corrupts Ar-Pharazon so they build a temple for Melkor where Sauron becomes the high priest. Then Eru Iluvatar destroys the Island.
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Iluvatar destroys numenor because sauron deceives them into attacking(!) the undying lands they were banned from ever visiting.
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Oh yeah, they wanted to invade Valinor lol.
I need to re-read the Silmarillion
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zoz
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zle
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zozzle
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The orgies must be incredible.
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Wasnt the mouth of sauron a mouthbreather and a black (read evil) Numenorian
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Nuclear
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give the man an answer you Tolkien-expert
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Next WoT rant when? Was the show renewed for a third season?
My parents watched it (none of them are familiar with the source material) and while my dad enjoyed the first season my mom said both of them were boring.
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i haven't checked on the WOT subs/forums in a while, ill have to go back
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!slots100
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Yeah. Eru Iluvatar (God) destroyed island of Numenor and big butt army they invaded undying lands with. But there were still colonies of Numenor in Middle Earth, and some numenorians survived there. Colonies north of Pelegrin remained pro-elven / loyal to Valar and they would form kingdoms of Gondor and its nothern twin Arnor, and fight with elves against Sauron in War of the Last Alliance 2 centuries later.
But in colonies to the south, especially Umbar, their remained black numenorians who listened to Sauron's propaganda against elves/Valar/God. Most of them would die off in over 3000 years between then and War of the Ring, interbreeding with locals and dying in infighting. But some survived and were Sauron's agents ruling over humans loyal to him. Mouth of Sauron was one, but Gothmog (commander in battle of Minas Tirith after Witch King dies), who was made an orc in the movies was probably a black numenorian as well, same with many other high ranking humans serving Sauron.
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Don't listen to
@nuclearshill, the correct answer is: supposedly yes.
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Supposedly yes
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Sadly all the inhabitants of Middle Earth were doomed to eventually mutate into English people
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a fate worse than death
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Gondor has fallen. Millions must die
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Do you think Aragon genocided the remaining orcs and the Eastlings?
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Orcs yes.
Eastlings no.
Eventually military
aged male eastlings are allowed into Gondor as refugees of peace 
who then conquer 
Gondor from within.
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I bet it was Arwen's idea
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The Elves are proof that De-Growth and Re-Wilding works
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All it takes is being part of a magical immortal race.
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It's alright
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Lol
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It's hard to compare unless we know Gondor's tax policy.
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Yeah Saruman and Sauron were the bad guys, we know.
The Isengardian revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the fangorn forest.
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