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Welcome to the white-collar recession :marseypoor:

https://old.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1cpzpek/welcome_to_the_whitecollar_recession/

!nooticers

More seethe:

https://old.reddit.com/r/FluentInFinance/comments/1ci4fw0/welcome_to_the_whitecollar_recession/

https://old.reddit.com/r/business/comments/1ci4g1k/welcome_to_the_whitecollar_recession/

https://old.reddit.com/r/NorthCarolina/comments/1cthg2d/are_any_fellow_whitecollar_graduates_in_this/

Over the past year or so, pretty much everyone who's looked for a job has told me the same thing: The job market is brutal right now. They've applied to dozens if not hundreds of openings, only to get one or two callbacks. No one's hiring, they tell me. I've never seen it this bad.

Listening to them, you'd think we were in the middle of a recession. But the confusing thing is we're nowhere close to one. Unemployment is near a five-decade low. The economy is adding hundreds of thousands of jobs each month. Wages are growing faster than inflation. By all the standard measures, the job market is doing just fine. So why am I hearing such a different story from people on the ground?

The dissonance finally started to make sense to me when Vanguard, the investment-management company, released its latest report on hiring. By looking at the enrollment and contribution rates of its 401(k) retirement plans, Vanguard is able to calculate a national hiring rate broken down by income level. And what the numbers show is a two-tier job market --- one divided between a blue-collar boom and a white-collar recession.

Among Vanguard's lowest earners --- those who make less than $55,000 --- the hiring rate has held up well. At 1.5%, it's still above pre-pandemic levels. But among those who make more than $96,000? It's pretty depressing. Hiring has slowed to a dismal 0.5%, less than half the peak it reached in mid-2022. Excluding the dip in the early months of the pandemic, that's the worst it's been since 2014. If you make a six-figure salary, it really is a bad time to be looking for a job.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17164760028039982.webp

The question here is why. Why are companies hiring so few white-collar workers right now? Several possible explanations come to mind. It might be that fewer people in corporate jobs are quitting right now, which would mean companies have fewer openings they need to fill. It might be that the industries that are struggling the most --- tech and finance --- are the ones that employ a lot of high-earning professionals. Or it might be that CEOs are making good on their threats to cut back on what they see as corporate bloat --- what Mark Zuckerberg has called "managers managing managers, managing managers, managing managers, managing the people who are doing the work."

But there could be a bigger, more worrisome explanation for the downturn in white-collar hiring. Maybe companies are anticipating tough times ahead and trimming their budgets accordingly. "If you need to pull back on costs," says Fiona Greig, the global head of investor research and policy at Vanguard, "pulling back on expensive workers will reduce costs to a greater extent than pulling back on your lower-income workers." Translation: The more you earn when budgets are tight, the less an employer wants to hire you.

Now, you could argue that a slowdown in white-collar hiring doesn't really matter in the current economy, even for white-collar workers. Sure, Vanguard's data show that things are tough for professionals who are looking for a job. But there aren't that many people who actually need a new job right now: The unemployment rate for people with a college degree is 2.1%, and the national layoff rate is below what it was pre-pandemic. When the vast majority of professionals already have a job --- and are able to keep their jobs --- maybe it's OK that companies aren't hiring.

But that argument doesn't take into account one important factor: What if the job you have is one you hate? I have several friends who are unhappy in their current jobs, but they can't quit because no one is hiring. Some observers have called this combination of lower hiring and less quitting "the Big Stay," suggesting a kind of equilibrium after the chaos of the Great Resignation. But my colleague Emily Stewart has a better name for it: the "trapped in place" economy. I think professionals feel this trapped-in-placeness particularly acutely. After all, it wasn't that long ago that they were enjoying a "take this job and shove it" swagger, which was fun to watch. During the Great Resignation, they knew it'd be easy to find a new job, which meant it'd be easy to walk away from their current one. Even if they weren't planning to leave, the job market gave them a sense of freedom --- the feeling that they no longer had to put up with a bad boss, or a brutal workload, or an arbitrary return-to-office mandate.

This, I think, is what explains what people are calling the "vibecession": the weird state of feeling like we're in a recession even though all the standard metrics show we're not. What we're experiencing is actually a slowdown in *white-collar *hiring --- and white-collar professionals (me and my angsty friends) are the people who shape the public discourse about the economy. "People feel that things are moving in the wrong direction," says Guy Berger, the director of economic research at the Burning Glass Institute, which analyzes the labor market.

And for the most elite professionals, things could get worse before they get better. Berger tells me he doesn't expect a full-on recession anytime soon. But he's keeping an eye on the unemployment rate for people with advanced degrees. Pretty much everyone else is doing OK, job-wise --- but there's been a slight uptick for all the smarty-pants with master's degrees and doctorates. They aren't exactly struggling right now. "We're still talking about the people that have the highest pay in the job market and the lowest unemployment rate," Berger says. But for them, hiring is headed in the wrong direction. And as AI cowtools increasingly encroach on professionals' tasks --- writing, coding, coordination, analysis --- we'll likely see a lot more weakness at the higher end of the income scale than at the lower end.

This isn't the story we're used to hearing about employment. For decades the economy has been leaving workers with lower incomes and less education behind while professionals have reaped all the gains. But now those roles are reversed, and it's the high earners who are taking the hit. No wonder everyone is confused about how the economy is doing. "We're having some trouble collectively digesting that," Berger says. And the longer the white-collar hiring lull continues, he warns, the more the resentment will build.

"Even if there's no big surge in layoffs, people are just going to get grumpier and more dissatisfied," Berger says. "If it continues for three or four more years, it's going to cause a lot of discontent and low morale in corporate America."

:#gigabiden:

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This,

what Mark Zuckerberg has called "managers managing managers, managing managers, managing managers, managing the people who are doing the work."

Combined with this,

"If you need to pull back on costs," says Fiona Greig, the global head of investor research and policy at Vanguard, "pulling back on expensive workers will reduce costs to a greater extent than pulling back on your lower-income workers." Translation: The more you earn when budgets are tight, the less an employer wants to hire you.

The bloat has gotten so bad that this correction is needed. The real question is will these jobs be filled back in the near term, or at all.

If it's the latter, then these people are truly fricked.

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!nooticers

Those frickers bragging about doing nothing during WFH and posting evidence of it to their own socials was the most short-sighted thing I've ever seen and I'm still angry about it. This hiring slump is a slow-rolling result of people showing just how useless they are.

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!wfhchads Who would :marseywood: do such a thing? :marseyneet:

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God I love neeting it up with my wfh but still getting paid. Couldn't possibly be more comfy :marseyneet:

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Reminds me of my old job. Team of 15, somehow we needed 3 agile scrum master type managers? They were removed just before I left

:marseybeggar: :marseylaugh:

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agile/six sigma/kaizen are the biggest fricking scams ever foisted on corporate America. At least Bernie Madoff was just one man

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>mfw a friend of mine did six sigma for a certification in some shit totally unrelated to his field

:#marseyxdorbit:

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add ACE (Achieving Competitive Excellence) to the list

I used to work a job that had people who just did that shit. like filling out surveys and metrics and having meetings but truly not contributing any value whatsoever. Well, no value to the company - they were still useful scapegoats when anything went awry (it's because you didn't ACE hard enough)

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Honestly, it's like this whenever there :marseycheerup: is a shift in the way we do business, new tech, fewer jobs that are needed because free or very cheap :marseypiggybank: cowtools do the same or better. Too many companies though do have way too many managers, partially why I assume all those return :marseymonke: to office :marseywhiteshirt: things were happening, was because someone's boss didn't want his bosses to realize that his job was never :marseyitsover: needed.

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But the FOOD!! Who wants to eat boring wypipo food like chicken and potatoes boiled in salt?

:#soyjakwow:

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So many tech workers have smug stories about how their company tried to offshore to India, it failed miserably, their butthole boss got fired, and they got hired back at a higher rate. As if the developing world isn't, y'know, developing. Even without AI, at some point we'll reach a tipping point and white-collar jobs will be annihilated like coal miners in the 70s.

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You just have to take one look at the bell curve to see that even though there's an IQ difference, there's still hundreds of millions of people in the global south with the IQ sufficient to do that work.

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The codemonkeys in Jaypan, both Gooklands, Poland, Sweden and India (to an extant) have medium to high-skilled codemonkeys that cost as much as a Burger junior dev and are way less likely to pull stupid shit like unionizing and protesting dead blacks and muslims. Why would you hire burgers when you can hire low-drama foreigners instead?

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Sorry libs, reality has a right-wing bias

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Sometimes I wonder why I went to college if I'm going to have some smug journaloid try to spin everything under the sun.

"Oh, you're not happy with your job? Just go work at McDonald's same thing."

I mean, the funny thing is that my genetics are so shitty I could make more on disability than working, and really the only difference is pride. Being stuck in some corporate entry role because the morons in Washington cannot stop spending money is frustrating, and I'll probably vote Trump to make them seethe, then go on disability.


Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

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Lol journ*lists dictate your emotional wellbeing. You would for sure qualify for disability.

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I do have to read stories for work to write reports, so I don't really have a choice. But media spin makes me angry especially when it's just vomiting up “facts” you know are false.

The more of an expert you are in your field, the more full of shot journ*lists are.


Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

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>destroy America with my vote

>cash out of society and live on r-slur bux immediately after

:#marseyretardchad:

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If voting could actually destroy the country I would consider it.

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Disability is crippling. You will probably shorten you're life in half

Trans lives matter

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Unlikely, I have heart problems so I'm already exceeding my life expectancy.


Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

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BOO

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>everypony stays at home during the pandemic

>everypony consooms all day

>pandemic ends

>inflation occurs

>fed stops inflation by closing off the money pit

>companies tighten belts

OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING BECAUSE JOBS RELATED TOO INTERNET AND PRODUCT CONSOOMING ARE DOWN!!!

Trans lives matter

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Uh-oh! I should have been actually working from home instead of gooning!

:#marseyantiworktalking:

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>its not a recession because gdp is up 4% and inflation is up 3%/(16%) (adjusted for inflation)

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The pmc salary genocide is long overdue

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salary*

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@Tomato

The federal reserve believes it's the velocity of the money supply that's leading to inflation, when I think the more obvious cause is that the money supply is outpacing the production of certain important goods like food and housing, and cost reductions in other household budget items (where markets are stabilizing) aren't compensating.

Higher interest rates don't beget more housing, better food supply chains, etc. that's why I'm bearish on the overall health of the economy despite shallow metrics like employment or GDP.

Do I blame Biden? Not really, you can't shut down the global economy for two years and expect it to run well. Do I think I, as a 30 year-old economist with no publications in macro could do better? Yes, of course, everyone is an r-slur but me and I will bring about a golden era for God's chosen people.


:#marseyastronaut:

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One step closer to college degrees being worth less than the paper they're printed on. :#marseychuddance:

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I don't really :marseythinkorino2: see that happening. Colleges have been around for centuries, it was making them so easily accessible that had devalued the concept of a college :marseymcwagie: degree, but colleges themselves won't disappear. The ones that were only surviving on federal :marseybeanangryfbi: dollars :marseymoney: will die, as they have been since 2015, and the ones that actual churn out grads who make money :marseyxmr: will continue.

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I can see degrees that are tied to doing actual productive hands-on work in the field transitioning to a trades-style discipline (see: Nursing, IT, early childhood education, in-field social work, other applied sciences)

Foid do-nothing degrees like marketing, BAs, meteorology, communications, and Himalayan underwater basket weaving will only be seen by a Fellowes-brand paper shredder.

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Lmao tradies desperately trying to justify their poor choices. It's over for accountants this time for real!

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How is meteorology a do nothing degree?

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I don't know why Industry doesn't get together to have an uncredited course that's a brutal year long filter at a cheapish price, and hire people straight from there. Even if it's not accredited, it'd still be better than the 3 years BS where you can't be assured of the quality.

The government might cry and scream, but for many jobs wouldn't be able to do a thing about it.

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Colleges existed to give the upper class a "liberal education", versus the "servile education" of job training. The fact we can only conceive of college degrees in terms of the job market shows how dead the concept is :marseygradgenocide:

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:marseyhesright: the point of a college degree is to let wealthsigmas understand the world better than poorcels. Learning in order to get a job is for the lower classes.

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>Among Vanguard's lowest earners --- those who make less than $55,000 --- the hiring rate has held up well. At 1.5%, it's still above pre-pandemic levels. But among those who make more than $96,000?

This is basically good news, right? For the first time in living memory the middle class is catching up with the wealthy?

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MORE COPE

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Good point, but I loathe the label "unskilled". All labor is skilled labor. The unskilled label is a fake term used to justify poverty wages

Yeah, the baristas at Starbucks are definitely as skilled as the surgeon who just replaced my dad's knees and couldn't be replaced by random high-schoolers working part-time.

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Redditors are losers. News at 11

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this kills the deifoid and the sexy indian dude menace. rightoids are impossible to please :marseysigh:

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Middle mangers need to be the harest workers in the building to justify their positions.

When you are not bringing dollars into a business, you better have a good reason to be there taking money.

I love watching useless, bloat to our society cry when their job that a computer can do better is gone. Grab a shovel friend is what they need to be told :marseythebuilder:

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Learn to weld cute twinks. Ain't nobody going to be paying you shit to do spreadsheets no more, get used to it.

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That's honestly my plan should programming ever get killed, people bitching about muh profession are the same as the people working at McDonalds or the gas station their whole lives cause they lack the motivation to (re)train for an actually useful skill


:#marseyviewerstaretalking:

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These are the tech workers who have never seen a terminal in their lifetime. They are barely literate and you think they can learn to weld?

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Nah the spreadsheet account jobs are fine lmao. There is even more useless people in offices if you can believe. You have to remember the average person is so bad with computers being able to click add in excel is skill

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NOOOOO Not my email job!!

:soycrytalking#:

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People have been talking about "elite overproduction" for years. I guess it has finally been reflected in the real world as interest rate hikes.

Thank you Joe, for reducing the wage gap.

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In law school i applied to about 165 firms for my 2L summer. Not a top law school, but top of my class. I got 2 interviews and one job out of it, and it seems i may have been on the last helicopter out of Nam. These hiring managers now know that they're dealing with extremely r-slurred students who don't actually know anything. Shoutout to Zoomers for the job security.

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I'm hoping biotech/pharma holds up, 2023 was a pretty rough one but I survived

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:marseynotesglow:

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the glowies are tryna make me poor

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Let me make you 39,549 coins poorer

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Im graduating 2025 :marseysick: i really hope i can pull a data analyst job i got a pretty prestigious internship and have been working under a PI the whole time ive been at school

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I'm a spectroscopy grunt rn :marseychemist:

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Ill become a contract grunt who kills rats if it takes. I guess i could also jump into financial data analysis. Recruiter was spitting cause i knew r and python and my sql (most the team just knows excel)

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Learn :marseyreading: to weld codejak !slots123

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Right as I'm thinking about finishing my degree :marseystocksdown:

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