Unable to load image

Serious: Is there any sect of Judaism that has declared that the Jews keep trying to avoid Gods commands on technicalities and should not do that?

As far as I am aware there is a whole Jewish tradition of going over religious text as one would over a legal document, looking for any little mistake they can find, or any loophole they can discover to circumvent what one might consider the spirit of the law.

So is there any sect of Jadaism that has declared that the general jewish population is rules lawyering too hard with important scripture and that they need to stop doing that?

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Jews trying to outmaneuver God with Jewish lawyer tricks is the most Jewish thing imaginable.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

:!chadjew: Let us study the Talmud on this matter:

If one cut an earthenware oven widthwise into segments, and placed sand between each and every segment, Rabbi Eliezer deems it ritually pure. Because of the sand, its legal status is not that of a complete vessel, and therefore it is not susceptible to ritual impurity. And the Rabbis deem it ritually impure, as it is functionally a complete oven.

And this is known as the oven of akhnai. The Gemara asks: What is the relevance of akhnai, a snake, in this context? Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: It is characterized in that manner due to the fact that the Rabbis surrounded it with their statements like this snake, which often forms a coil when at rest, and deemed it impure.

Like all Talmudic problems it might seem trivial, but there's an important principle at stake here about whether it is the form or function of the law that should be applied. Is Rabbi Eliezer correct, or the other rabbis?

The Sages taught: On that day, when they discussed this matter, Rabbi Eliezer answered all possible answers in the world to support his opinion, but the Rabbis did not accept his explanations from him. After failing to convince the Rabbis logically, Rabbi Eliezer said to them: If the law is in accordance with my opinion, this carob tree will prove it. The carob tree was uprooted from its place one hundred cubits, and some say four hundred cubits. The Rabbis said to him: One does not cite legal proof from the carob tree.

Rabbi Eliezer then said to them: If the law is in accordance with my opinion, the stream will prove it. The water in the stream turned backward and began flowing in the opposite direction. They said to him: One does not cite legal proof from a stream.

Rabbi Eliezer then said to them: If the law is in accordance with my opinion, the walls of the study hall will prove it. The walls of the study hall leaned inward and began to fall. Rabbi Yehoshua scolded the walls and said to them: If Torah scholars are contending with each other in matters of law, what is the nature of your involvement in this dispute? The Gemara relates: The walls did not fall because of the deference due Rabbi Yehoshua, but they did not straighten because of the deference due Rabbi Eliezer, and they still remain leaning.

Rabbi Eliezer then said to them: If the law is in accordance with my opinion, Heaven will prove it. A Divine Voice emerged from Heaven and said: Why are you differing with Rabbi Eliezer, as the law is in accordance with his opinion in every place that he expresses an opinion? Rabbi Yehoshua stood on his feet and said: It is written: “It is not in heaven” (Deuteronomy 30:12). The Gemara asks: What is the relevance of the phrase “It is not in heaven” in this context? Rabbi Yirmeya says: Since the Torah was already given at Mount Sinai, we do not regard a Divine Voice, as You already wrote at Mount Sinai, in the Torah: “After a majority to incline” (Exodus 23:2). Since the majority of Rabbis disagreed with Rabbi Eliezer's opinion, the law is not ruled in accordance with his opinion.

The Gemara relates: Years after, Rabbi Natan encountered Elijah the prophet and said to him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do at that time, when Rabbi Yehoshua issued his declaration? Elijah said to him: The Holy One, Blessed be He, smiled and said: My children have triumphed over Me; My children have triumphed over Me. The Sages said: On that day, the Sages brought all the ritually pure items deemed pure by the ruling of Rabbi Eliezer with regard to the oven and burned them in fire, and the Sages reached a consensus in his regard and ostracized him.

That's right. God came down from Heaven and said that Rabbi Eliezer was correct, but the other rabbis destroyed him with facts and logic. This story is called the oven of the snake, because the snake-like arguments of the Rabbis surrounded and crushed the oven. And that's a good thing! :marseyisraeliflag:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Link copied to clipboard
Action successful!
Error, please refresh the page and try again.