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Natives in Tech asks Apache Software Foundation to change name :!marseycherokee:

https://old.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/108egie/native_technologists_ask_apache_software

Orange site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34327455

It is not uncommon to learn about non-Indigenous entities appropriating Indigenous culture but none of them are as large, prestigious, or well-known as The Apache® Software Foundation is in software circles. They are known for the Apache® Software License, an open-source software license, and the Apache® HTTP Server, which is used nearly everywhere to proxy requests to incoming servers. The nonprofit entity was established in 1999. One of the founders, Brian Behlendorf, describes how he came about choosing the name Apache in the documentary "Trillions and Trillions Served":

I suggested the name Apache partly because the web technologies at the time that were launching were being called cyber this or spider that or something on those themes and I was like we need something a little more interesting, a little more romantic, not to be a cultural appropriator or anything like that, I had just seen a documentary about Geronimo and the last days of a Native American tribe called the Apaches, right, who succumbed to the invasion from the West, from the United States, and they were the last tribe to give up their territory and for me that almost romantically represented what I felt we were doing with this web-server project...

This frankly outdated spaghetti-Western "romantic" presentation of a living and vibrant community as dead and gone in order to build a technology company "for the greater good" is as ignorant as it is offensive. We urge The Apache® Software Foundation to take the necessary steps needed to express the ally-ship they promote so deeply on their website, to act in accordance with their own code of conduct, to "be careful in the words that [they] choose", and change their name.

Indigenous Erasure

Indigenous erasure is the systematic process of opposing, removing, re-framing, and undermining Indigenous presence, past and present, within the broader historical narrative from which they originated and continue to exist. There are several things that Behlendorf says that perpetuate this process in deep and concerning ways. For example, Behlendorf says "the last days of" to frame Apache existence as in the past as opposed to the present. This erasure removes responsibility from the perpetrator of the erasure to acknowledge Indigenous people here and now and reckon with the reality that their actions are an extension of the colonial entity the Apache fought against. There are currently 8 federally recognized tribes that carry on the Apache name and represent thousands and thousands of living, breathing people:

Organizations that say they support Indigenous peoples while using erasure type language is harmful and counterproductive. This type of erasure undermines the abilities of Native and non-Native people to work together. It also threatens critical rights around Indigenous sovereignty, self-determination, and respect. Ultimately, this undermines the foundation's work to better serve marginalized communities.

Romanticizing Indigenous Cultures

Romanticizing Indigenous culture is another theme in Behlendorf's statement above. Romanticizing is framing past Indigenous societies as pure, reverent, and simple. However, Indigenous societies were, and still are, complex and full of the many contradictions found in modern societies. This stereotype of Indigenous people is harmful. It categorizes Indigenous people within the bounds of the stereotype forced upon them, making it difficult for non-Indigenous peoples to see them differently. It also distances Indigenous people from modern technology, the very thing the foundation represents. In addition to representing a "simpler" time, Indigenous names and imagery are also used to represent the "warrior" spirit. Hence why many sports teams, and countless other colleges and grade schools, use "Indian" imagery as a way to represent them on the "battlefield."

Romanticizing Indigenous cultures is a way of framing them as static rather than dynamic. It also fails to acknowledge years of war, forced assimilation, and other adverse policies embedded as historical trauma throughout the generations and up to this day. Organizations that say they support Indigenous peoples but who lack any real connection to them, instead relying on historical stereotypes, fail to be allies to those they attempt to emulate.

In Their Own Words

Additional information about the name can be found on the foundation's website. The foundation describes how they do things as "The Apache® Way," their logo is a feather, and the company even went so far as to trademark the name Apache®. When reading the About Our Name page, they say:

The name "Apache" was chosen out of reverence and appreciation for the people and tribes who refer to themselves as "Apache"

By not enumerating the Apache nations, they fail to acknowledge and respect the name's provenance and origin, sidestepping any accountability the foundation should have towards them.

On occasion, we have been asked about claims about use of the "Apache" name by the Apache Native American communities. During its twenty-five years of use of "Apache" as part of its name, the ASF has never been involved in any legal dispute with Native American communities or any other party in relation to the use of the "Apache" name.

This assumes any one of the 8 Apache nations wants to give any legitimacy to The Apache® Software Foundation's trademark claim, especially, in a court system that has historically ruled against the sovereignty of Indigenous peoples. Imagining the impact of such a court ruling on the culture, one can understand how risky, not to mention expensive, it would be to dispute it.

We are honored that both The Apache Software Foundation and Apache Incubator logos are listed on the official website of the Apache Nation Chamber of Commerce.

A foundation the size of Apache®'s should be able to demonstrate support beyond one page of a single website offering a rubber stamp. Any indifference towards this fact demonstrates a distorted view of the foundation's relationship with historically marginalized peoples.

Conclusion

Issues of appropriation are nothing new for Indigenous folks in the US and the world. Nonprofits are service organizations. They should be held to a higher standard when it comes to interacting with historically excluded communities. To that end, Natives in Tech is a service-based organization of hundreds of Indigenous Peoples in technology who participate actively in re-imagining this world as a place where Indigenous people's identities are respected, in all realms, including software engineering.

Again, we urge The Apache® Software Foundation to take the necessary steps needed to express the ally-ship they promote on their website, to act in accordance with their own code of conduct to "be careful in the words that [they] choose", and change their name.

If you would like to sign a petition to change the name check out this project we are supporting called "End ASF Mascotry":

https://blog.nativesintech.org/apache-appropriation/

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I'd bet both muh nuts that less than 6 people actually care about this

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the fricking diversity racket. smdh

Apache should respond: "Vote on it! If more than half of all registered Apaches today want the name changed we will change it."

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I've never met an injun who cared about mayo nonsense like this. Most of them are chuds lmao.

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Am native american, can confirm language policing is not a super high priority, more concerned with preventing state politicians from trying to get their filthy fricking hands into our casino jar

Make your own casino's b-word! What's that? You can't compete because you put a 100000% sin tax on gambling? Surely this means tribes have too much power and need to be reigned in

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>24 comments 60 upmarseys

You were wrong

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I guarantee anyone complaining about this is white

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Talcumeronimo

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:marseyxd:

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Their tan and fabricated heritage says otherwise :marseyjaguarwarrior:

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people complain about welfare to reservations

but

tax money goes to pell grants, student loans, all kinds of college funding

so some mayo butt tenured boomers retained in almost every university can wear dark eyebrow pencil and hair dye and tell their students that they are native american and use it to justify their narcissistic new age beliefs

they aren't good professors and teach maybe one class a semester, and it's for the purpose of not shutting up about how they are a shaman or some shit even if the class is a specific sociology class they just talk about themselves as much as allowed.

Lockheart IRL

I know someone with a sleazy uncle like this who has a very cushy university position, and the man never worked a day in his life because his white parents kept selling land to fund each new degree he got. He pretends he had to go hustle his way into success as a native american and he failed upwards. He's also a p-dophile.

These boomers are EVERYWHERE once you start to know how to look for them.

I enjoy looking at the deep faculty and staff lists of colleges and universities, and then tracking down wordpress and blogspot sites of all the most useless looking humanities professors. Years ago I found some proudly published weird Beatles erotica doing that but mostly tons of new age shit and a whole bunch of fake native american stuff.

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Mommy is soooo proud of you, sweaty. Let's put this sperg out up on the fridge with all your other failures.

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It's kindof a paradox, if they tell them to get stuffed, then they'd be smart and unfit to carry the name, cede to them and they'd be pathetic, and therefore continuing the legacy of the apache :marseyhmm:

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By not enumerating the Apache nations, they fail to acknowledge and respect the name's provenance and origin, sidestepping any accountability the foundation should have towards them.

The Chiricahua Ch'úúkʾanén Gila Tchihende Ndendahe Mogollon Nedhni Jicarilla Carlana Lipan White Mountain Mescalero Fort Still Pelones Faraone Natagees Cibecue Arivaipa Pinal Tonto Yavapai Kiowa-Apache Software Foundation

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people using indian shit in culture/memes/logos is like the only reason their shitty worthless civilization is even remembered. they need to grow a pair. no one is being fricking harmed by a sports team being called redskins or whatever

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Didn't polling show that only like 3% of natives actually gave a frick about the redskins?

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Yes, but 89% of white women care so something had to be done!

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I think Cleveland Indians was more funny. It was literally named after an Indian baseball player https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Sockalexis

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Yeah, that's the thing, they keep thinking they can turn back the clock and have their culture represented 100% on their own terms... Darling, that ship sailed... well, ironically, 'round about the time the first ship carrying whitey and smallpox arrived on your shores. Your only choice is to meld into the mainstream culture that surrounds you and make the most of it. Anything else and the clock is ticking.

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My gift to the world for 2023 is to let companies and individuals know that its OK to just ignore people when they ask something stupid.

The earlier you make it clear you're not going to entertain something the better. I'm fed up of people pretending they've got a social conscience and even giving bandwidth to demands like this.

Change your name it upsets us.

No.

Job done.

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If it were my organization, I'd probably just change it to something else without ever responding to the letter in any way, thus robbing them of their outrage related 15 minutes of spotlight in the news. Like, ok you don't want something called Apache, fine, now everyone can continue to ignore you like they always do.

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Big Chief's Crazy Server formerly know as apache.

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How long until we’re gonna come for all those gay molon labe stickers on bumpers?.. I hope soon

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:#marseytwerkinit:

Snapshots:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34327455:

"Trillions and Trillions Served":

code of conduct:

Apache Tribe of Oklahoma:

Fort Sill Apache Tribe of Oklahoma:

Mescalero Apache Tribe of the Mescalero Reservation, New Mexico:

San Carlos Apache Tribe of the San Carlos Reservation, Arizona:

White Mountain Apache Tribe of the Fort Apache Reservation, Arizona:

Yavapai-Apache Nation of the Camp Verde Indian Reservation, Arizona:

 website:

 About Our Name:

https://blog.nativesintech.org/apache-appropriation/:

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I really wish companies would just utter a one word "no" as a reply to shit like this.

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Injuns are nasty, greedy people. Look no further than Yellowstone for exposing them. This is no different when the featherhead told Dutton in season 1 that his goal was to bankrupt his kids in estate tax and steal his earned land. Disgusting

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Out out out

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Smokum your peace pipe a bit more wind brother

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