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xorg and wayland are both such clusterfricks I doubt that'll happen in the next decade

btw, if there are any wayland shills reading this, your shit sucks. Supposed to be the next-gen display server and yet literally INCAPABLE, at the protocol level, of proper fractional scaling, even with toolkits that support it like qt. Not talking about xwayland either, which is even worse despite normal xorg being almost functional. In fact it's not even possible for an app to render correctly under the current wayland fractional scaling ""solution"", butchering text rendering everywhere, and even in fullscreen -- if you have it enabled it is not possible for mpv to play a 1080p video on a 1080p screen without getting linearly smeared everywhere!

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What OS does fractional scaling? Isn't macOS best suited for it with their "points" system (even then every macOS user swears by "2x retina" or some shit now)?

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in windows it sometimes works depending on the gui toolkit in use, most guis are correct while a few have blurry text. At the very least, a fullscreen app is allowed to render itself correctly.

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So this is a mess everywhere, can you just get a better monitor? :marseypoor: ?

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it's about as good as it could be in windows, can't expect every binary from 1995 to know how to scale itself properly. Windows even sets the settings for you when you install it. You can get a different monitor but the issue is laptops, something like a small 1080p or slightly bigger 1440p screen is super common and will not look good at 1x nor 2x scale.

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Why would you expect an "old" Qt or GTK app to do the same? Especially Qt, when they lag behind Wayland stuff.

While I'm behind the Wayland train I don't think it was ever the best it could be. Based on how I saw it happen at the time it was a reaction from (((RH))) when Canonical invested in Mir for Unity8. Seemed like they astroturfed support into opposing more Ubuntu "NIH syndrome" even though - (((RH))) does it all the time with more ""community"" white washing.

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Qt itself actually already supports it, is the thing. If you set screen dpi in the xresources Xft.dpi, many gui toolkits including Qt and GTK will properly scale themselves in all aspects not just fonts (r-slurred ultrahack but that's X). They will also apparently do it if certain environment variables are set. Wayland isn't able to take advantage of this so they get fractionally scaled the same way dumb non-aware apps would be scaled: rendered 2x (wayland does support integer scales at least) and then linearly downscaled to the desired size. XWayland can't even get that right, in xwayland the apps are rendered at 1x and then upscaled which is god-awful.

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oh wow, that's great news. hopefully it goes through and we can have good scaling in like 3 years.

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Essentially what needs to happen is that there needs to be an opt-in protocol where an app can say "hey, I know what I'm doing, don't try to scale me I can do it properly myself" which qt/gtk could then implement.

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What do anti-vaxxers, flat earthers, 9/11 truthers, and anti-Wayland activism all have in common? All of them are characterized by a blithe rejection of facts to embrace a narrative of victimization by a vague authority. In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. “Wayland sucks!” is a conspiracy theory with no basis in truth, and its supporters have spent years harassing Wayland maintainers, contributors, and users. And it’s time for it to fricking stop.

Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. Regardless, I simply don’t give a shit about you anymore. I’ve tried appealing to reason and rationally debunking each lie that some Wayland detractor flavor-of-the-week is touting to tow the party line, but it didn’t work. So my new approach is “frick you”. None of the Wayland detractors have a clue. They don’t understand Wayland, they don’t understand X11, they don’t understand Linux graphics or OpenGL or Vulkan or anything else in the stack. They don’t even understand what it’s like to use Wayland, because at most they might have spent 5 minutes installing it, realized that something was — gasp — different than X11, and then uninstalled it and wrote their angry Reddit comment.

It has a real cost, you know, being a peepee to maintainers. It’s not good for our mental health. We’re out here trying to make things better. Wayland fixes unfixable problems with X11, and might have invented some new, fixable problems in the process — most of which have been fricking fixed already, and years ago! We’ve sacrificed our spare time to build this for you for free. If you turn around and harass us based on some utterly nonsensical conspiracy theories, then you’re a fricking butthole.

If you really want to live in your propagandized world of Wayland lies, then fine. You’re gonna maintain Xorg yourself, because we’re not going to volunteer our time, sacrifice our weekends and evenings staying up late for your sake, just to maintain that broken pile of shit. You know what, if you fork it and prove that you know what you’re doing for a while, we’d probably just give you the keys to upstream so you can maintain it yourself. If you do know what you’re doing, though, you’ll soon realize you want nothing to do with that shitty codebase.

Wayland works for almost everyone, and works for more people than is even possible with X11. Most of the lies you’ve heard about ways that it’s broken are just that: lies. And if you insist on living in that fantasy, then keep it to yourself, butthole.

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Sorry ma'am, looks like his delusions have gotten worse. We'll have to admit him.

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cool pasta but this shit should have been added 10 years ago. Wayland is not some brand new software, it has had plenty of time for refining and yet it seems perpetually in beta. "laptop with small 1080p screen" is not some rare niche usecase.

I will say xwayland sucking has a nice effect that it seems to convince people things are rendering correctly when rendered in Wayland, when actually they are simply no longer as wrong. Leaving that issue unfixed is probably in the Wayland maintainers' best interests.

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Wayland does have some big benefits. It fixes the total lack of isolation from Xorg (significant security improvement) and it also allows you to never again touch xorg.conf which is the most irritating config file known to man.

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