Also I'm getting really bussy-blasted and pissed about /r/baldursgate newstrags telling oldgaurd that the original games has always been shit, and that Larian has saved you backwards barbarians from yourselves 
https://old.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/1annt4s/possible_hot_take_about_a_certain_third
"Now that the smoke has cleared on Baldur's Gate 3, I think we can move from the honeymoon phase to the realistic conversation phase. I love bg3, I've loved it since early access, so I'm not an oldhead mad that times change. But I don't think BG3 should be called BG3, I don't think it's similar enough in spirit or mechanically to be a successor. A great cRPG, yeah, a fun dnd game, of course, but for a game that says it's the 3rd Baldur's Gate, it's not even the halfway close to resembling it. I find myself wishing that BG3 had been done by Owlcat because BG1 and 2 have more similarities to the Pathfinder games than BG3."
Basically my shit take and opinion 
frick this guy in particular 
"What you're saying is 20 years out of date. The lack of real-time-with-pause isn't enough to say it's not ‘Baldur's Gate.' The world has moved on from this outdated gameplay style. 
Then why the frick are you on this sub if you despise the system then 
"I love the original Bg games and I always will but sitting here complaining that it wasn't the old style seems like you just kinda wanna whine about it" that's not fricking true, there are such intense differences in gameplay, and RTP seems to be universally despised by turn-based chodes so there is merit to the complaints
pettiness and misattributing OP, love me some /r/baldursgate straggotry
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RTwP is fricking awful, it's not as tactical as turn based and not as engaging as an ARPG. It's just butt, you select your party and click the enemy then they run in there like ants and maybe you pause to use a heal or 2.
It's like neurodivergentally complaining that no real fps games are made anymore because you use a mouse now and can look up and down, no one wants to go back.
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do you really believe that? You know i make these threads because i want some fun and to open myself to being bullied so that we on Rdrama dont take ourselves so seriously and have some fun about non-important stuff instead of @snally bitching about to much chudposting about eurocucks
Then you guys come with genuine sincerity and have even worse takes than my shitty ones
Why u say it's aweful, because you just decided so? You think a genre should just cease to exist because you dislike it? I hate Roguelikes, but i believe they should persist in the gayming ecosystem.
Your FPS complaint makes sense only in your shower argument against the mirror - my bitching is the absence of both RTwP versus Turn-based. In the past 20 years, not even 10 games have been released in this genre, while Turn-based g*mers have been spoilt for choice with over 1000 titles on steam alone, both indie and AAA alike.
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Yes? RTwP is the most common combat style for CRPGs and it sucks, there was a time where finding a turn based CRPG was a novelty. Thankfully Larian is proving it is the more engaging style, it allows the devs to structure combat with carefully laid out pacing and environmental design. Want a big boss to spawn after 15 rounds when you are just about to turn the tides of war on the enemy to up the stakes? You can't do that with RTwP because it would just look comical, you select your party and right click the enemy, they run in at the speed of sound like little ants and you watch they animations spazz out as magic is going everywhere and then 5 seconds later a boss spawns.
No because it's my opinion? You don't decide what your opinion is you arrive at an opinion after considering the facts and your view of them.
For the same reason you want to make a big stink about how RTwP is the best thing ever I want to make a big stink about how it's butt, because development resources are limited and I would prefer a game I enjoy is made instead of one I don't enjoy. How is that a mystery to you?
No? We are discussing different sub categories of a genre, in the same way RTwP is an antiquated mess of a subgenre of CRPG when compared to a competent modern Larian game, Doom is an antiquated mess of a subgenre of FPS games when compared to like Half Life for example.
This is just wrong, there have barely been any big budget or indie CRPGs that have been turn based, meanwhile you have gotten Tyranny, Pillars of eternity, Pillars of eternity 2, Pathfinder 1, Pathfinder 2, Black Geyser, Dragon age origins, KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, Drakensang 1, Drakensang 2, Neverwinter knights: MotB and Arcanum to name a few and we have gotten like 5 games lol, DOS:OS 1, DOS:OS2, and now BG3, going back more than 20 years there is also Fallout 1 and 2.
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flat out lie
https://store.steampowered.com/category/rpg_turn_based
Literally hundreds to thousands
"Doom is an antiquated mess of a subgenre of FPS games when compared to like Half Life for example."
The Boomer shooter literally is a resurgence to simpler times, with many referencing back to the original Doom 1 and 2 even as a baseline from which to lay foundation, many explicitly cutting out the storytelling portion which Half-llife made a novelty at the time for more pure gameplay related at least according to what they merit
https://youtube.com/results?search_query=ggmanlives+doom+1+review
"Doom is an antiquated mess of a subgenre" by who's standard, only yours.
"Yes? RTwP is the most common combat style for CRPGs and it sucks, there was a time where finding a turn based CRPG was a novelty. Thankfully Larian is proving it is the more engaging style, it allows the devs to structure combat with carefully laid out pacing and environmental design."
You and many others have simply decided that your favoured systems and gameplay, none of this is based on any sound mind, you've only accumulated this arrogance because your opinion is shared by a majority in this finite genre, not because you're as intelligent as you think you
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None of these are CRPGs except like Wasteland which I did forget about. These are JRPGs which are like comparing Diablo to Assassins Creed Origins because they both are in a genre containing the letters RPG
Boomer shooters don't control like DOOM though? They use the mouse and allows you to look up and down and aim freely hence my entire point.
I have been having these arguments since before Larian when RTwP was the only possible combat system you would find in a CRPG.
I have gave you my argument as laid out in the first section which you conveniently decided against responding to. Turn based combat allows for fine tuning of encounters and allows for there to be stakes and difficult combat sections to heighten the impact of story moments. Like adding an optional puzzle in the environment that the player could solve on one of their characters to change the situation of combat mid way, or spawning a boss when certain requirements are met for example. RTwP by necessity can't allow this because it would require too much micro mid combat and RTwP players just want to set up like 2 simple combining spells in their build that they can use to speed run combat.
You chose to not respond to this so I am going to assume you concede this point.
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" have gave you my argument as laid out in the first section which you conveniently decided against responding to."
How on earth am i supposed to respond to such, to reply in a neverending spiral of how I am right, and you are wrong?
You believe that the speed of RTWP manifests gameplay which is incompatible to finetuned strategy, i have never opposed such, I merely believe that the tactical bullettime format of RTWP is more enjoyable when party member act in concert, it makes like the gameplay equivalent of playing a 300 MOVIe, i find that to be greatly enjoyable and still personally tactically strategic even as i recognize the combined action of RTWP to be too much for most and those who prefer turn-based - that does not equate to one gameplay format being superior to the other just because you say it so or because many agree with you as such, you are unbelievably arrogant.
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You wrote a response containing 6ish arguments to my short initial post, so I responded to each argument with one rebuttal each, if you are able to initially respond with 6 arguments to one argument you can surely respond with 1 argument to one argument 6 times too.
So then you understand my argument perfectly yet still is trying to claim that it isn't based on sound mind or thinking things through but simply because I am a sheep? That does not make any sense.
You enjoy the tactical gameplay of RTwP but concede that Turn based is more strategic/tactical yet still don't understand why I prefer it and claim that it is simply due to arrogance? If you want to go watch a movie go watch a movie or play a Total War game.
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"If you want to go watch a movie go watch a movie or play a Total War game."
I'm not the one denigrating the other's preferred gameplay style, and making bold statements that it should cease to exist and because i find it antiquated by arbitrary standards, and then with self-satisfied
tell the other to go smugly watch a movie instead. You ARE arrogant and petty
"You wrote a response containing 6ish arguments to my short initial post"
yeah, cuz im not a doormat, this isnt reddit where RTWPcels get downmarseyd by the hivemend, you came initially with the bold arrogance that RTWP sux, and holds no merit and should cease to exist for your appeasement, as you bel;ieve the genre holds finite resources for turn-based or RTWP, i hold the same view, but inverse
"So then you understand my argument perfectly yet still is trying to claim that it isn't based on sound mind or thinking things through but simply because I am a sheep?"
No you got that backwards, i am not saying turn-based dowsnt have the capacity for greater depth, im giving you grief because you in your self-satisfied stubbornness have decided upon the reality that RTWP have no startegic merit or value at all. This is not true, there is plenty of depth and strategy, people just find it difficult because because it require many commands at once or hate the format; it is not chaos just because you say so or because many agree with you.
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keep yourself safe
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You are trying to pretend that RTwP CRPG players are some kind of oppressed minority being attacked by the Turn based CRPG players when RTwP is essentially the default when it comes to that genre. And in doing so you are accusing others of being sheep etc. Which is objectively arrogant and petty. You are also still choosing not to engage with any of my responses and I am starting to suspect it is because you simply don't have an argument against them lol
Responding to this is like responding to "what car should we take?" with "I think we should steal the bmw" when asked "what car should we take to go to the city?"
The point of the argument "You wrote a response containing 6ish arguments to my short initial post, so I responded to each argument with one rebuttal each, if you are able to initially respond with 6 arguments to one argument you can surely respond with 1 argument to one argument 6 times too." is to prove that when you say "How on earth am i supposed to respond to such, to reply in a neverending spiral of how I am right, and you are wrong?" you are simply lying because you opened up 6 lines of debate to begin with so you must have the mental capacity to handle them. You claim to be unable to handle making 1 argument per when presented with 6 arguments, but you proved you were capable in the first place by making 6 arguments to my one argument to begin with.
You cannot quote me saying this because I didn't, I dare you to try.
So you understand my point then lol, Turn based has a much greater capacity for strategical depth so that is why I prefer it. That is not to say that RTwP has no depth at all, I am sure that for some people combining 2 abilities to make them work together is strategic depth, I simply prefer to have encounter design that allows for fulfilling fights with twists and turns, ups and downs, and a capacity for mid combat narrative storytelling and creative solutions to encounters.
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I hope you had chatgpt pen that one fam
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Genres "should" do nothing, they have no greater purpose. RTwP is dead because it's a shit system that most people don't find particularly enjoyable. It's less strategic than turn-based systems and less dynamic than real-time action systems. You can b-word about the absence all you want, it's just the market responding to demand. The Baldur's Gate franchise doesn't owe you RTwP and there's no reason to consider it any more of an essential aspect than the setting, the story, the style, or any other aspect of these games.
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Im still gonna b-word about it, especially if the flagship series has now pivoted to an entirely different system, if Age of empires 4 suddenly became a 4X startegy game, im certain they be be peeved, regardless if that 4X game was excellent or not
"You can b-word about the absence all you want, it's just the market responding to demand."
the latest Codslop outsold BG3 this year by a factor of 2 or 3 depending one who does the counting, despite BG3 winning every imaginable reward, does a majority opinion make that opinion good just because many hold it? And does market forces really appeal to quality or the betterment of gaming, when lootboxes and microshit invest so much of gaming? despite so much negative reviews and feedback for the past 2 years of the latest call of duty trash, the normie FPS g*mers still pull market demand in worse directions just as much as demand for BG3 can pull it into good ones.
"he Baldur's Gate franchise doesn't owe you RTwP " it may or may not owe me shit, devs have no reason to listen to me, im a nobody, but i do believe i reserve the right ot b-word into the ether, but i feel like peeps like you talking down to me with the arrogance of som,ebody used to having their shit opinions upmarseyd by hiveminds to say such bold claims that game systems hold no impact over the overall experience of a game - if you still find it doesnt affect you that is entirely valid.
But the smug arrogance to just dismiss my discontent, really assblasts me into longposting
with strangers online
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Sorry ma'am, looks like his delusions have gotten worse. We'll have to admit him.
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Hes not wrong. Even something like DA:O which is the last good game I can remember using RTWP would be better off either as full turn based or full action. Pausing is essentially just choosing when turn based selections happen but with the opportunity for you to miss something because you didnt neurodivergentally microcheck everything or paused too late. BG3 is pretty good tho, need to go download the antibipoc mod and make a post to cause sneed on the subreddits.
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The arrogance comes fromt he fact that RTwP is such an unbelieable dogshit combat system, defending it makes you automatically subhuman.
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zoz
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zle
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zozzle
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Yes
Because a board game is strategically deep and interesting where dog fighting isn't even if you pause to wrench his nuts or inject him with adrenaline every once in a while.
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lmao neighbor do you really
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Yep chess isn't strategic. Smartest dramatard
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lmao you really do neighbor
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You are the one who compared it to a board game, not me
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You want it to be like a board game, thinking it makes it strategically deep like chess
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Me and a friend bg3 and DOS:2 Tactitian blind without looking anything up and we had a blast trying to figure out a way to tip the odds in our favor. The fights are definitely strategically deep and challenging.
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All us neighbors still playing Doom
say otherwise
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Even boomer shooters don't control like DOOM, no one wants to use the arrow keys and be unable to look up or down
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Doom was only like that because it wasn't really 3D since it had to run on a 386. If you used the level designer back in the day
you couldn't make corridors actually be on top of each other because that was too complicated for its engine.
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Yeah but that is kind of surface level doom stuff
Check out decino if you are interested in learning more https://youtube.com/@decino Carmack is genuinely a genius
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I read that book "Masters of Doom" a while back. While it's not technical in nature at all, it definitely gave me a greater appreciation for what went into making it. I was studying computer science in the late 90s and all of us worshiped Carmack like he was some kind of god, so trust me, you don't have to tell me he's a genius.
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