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There's no ethically reasonable moral framework that allows for killing animals in a non-survival situation where they're not infringing on your rights (Property stealing coyotes get the wall)

The usual reaction is "I know and don't care", which you think would trigger self-reflection in people but really the vast majority of people would heil hitler if it was popular so yolo

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It's unethical to just accept that they are a lower life form no more deserving of life than a fly buzzing around my room?

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I agree with you though, i just also put humans on the level of that fly as well (honestly ive met a lot of humans and i feel im being pretty generous here)

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that's weird, I think that humans have a lot more intrinsic value than animals because they are able to think, plan, and make the world better for other humans, of which I am one

world has potential to be made a better place by them, so unless they blow it big time, they're worth more than some bovine evolutionary dead end or a nice juicy dachshund

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Animals can think, plan, and make the world better for others too

You just don't want to consider inconvenient facts that challenge your cozy worldview lol

I am being facetious about the flies i consider them more like small machines but i prefer not to kill them unless they don't pay rent

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they don't make the world better for me though, you kinda skipped a pretty big point

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You've never been shown affection by an animal? :marseycringe2:

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by a cow, pig, chicken, or dog farmed for meat? no. they're lower life forms that would eat us if they could

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So it depends on how the creature was raised, therefore human farming is fine?

Can you define what a lower life form is in a way that doesn't allow me to eat you

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More comments

(Property stealing coyotes get the wall)

Run for PM of Canada plz

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Meat enhance brain functions which further the only moral good : knowledge.

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This comment brought to you by the beef and pork association of America

:#marseypig: :#marseytexan: :#marseycow:

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:cope: harder im literally shoving meat up my butt rn and feel euphoric

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Everyone eats meat, i dont get why people expect vegetarians to be triggered by something they're surrounded by 100% of the time

The opposite is not true, point it out and you get 300 replies whining about having to do a modicum of self-reflection regarding the meat industry

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Meat eatercels just can't cope :marseysmug2:

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This is the most libertarian take Iโ€™ve ever seen on vegetarians lmao. Truth of the matter is, humans have evolved to eat meat although substantially less than what the average westerner eats.

As long as you can provide a reasonably comfortable life for an animal and kill it quickly and painlessly I donโ€™t see there being any ethical qualms to eating meat.

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I am a libertarian, but now I have to say classical liberal or people will lynch me irl for some reason its kind of weird

Is there a reason your logic doesn't apply to humans though

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Eating humans gives you all sorts of weird diseases you should also like things that look like you. Itโ€™s basic instinct if you have the same instinctual reaction to an animal as you do a human then you are mentally broken

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if your opinion is different you're mentally ill, im very intelligent

Literally meat eaters should just kill themselves

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Humans and animals are different, valuing them equally is literally subhuman behavior

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It's not valuing them as equal to not eat animals. You just think animal life is worth more than the baseline pleasure you would receive from eating them.

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:#derpthinking:

Haven't really thought of it that way

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seems like a self-serving view to me

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They're objectively different

Subjectively, why should we not be self-serving (to an extent)? Why should we value lesser beings equally as ourselves?

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Everything is objectively different, and you can be as self serving as you want, just don't pretend your ethics are above that of a 4 year old's

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More comments

I agree, humans are strags

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Eating animals would also give you weird diseases if not for modern antibiotics. I guarantee if eating humans was allowed, scientists would develop antibiotics that would prevent you from getting sick from it

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Dude humans have eaten meat for centuries before antibiotics

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Not at the level they have now with factory farming. And a lot of those people got sick too. Why do you think there are all these weird 3rd world diseases that come from eating meat? Humans have also eaten other humans centuries before antibiotics came.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/311277

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Is there a reason your logic doesn't apply to humans

Opportunity cost. It's relatively cheaper to produce "meat" from animals as opposed to humans.

:#marseycapitalistmanlet:

Yes, economics should guide our moral judgments.

:#marseychadyes:

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Not if I just grab randos off the street

:marseytroublemaker:

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Now try scaling that production up, R-SLUR!

:!marseylaugh: :marseypoor:

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1.4 billion, no one will notice a few ks going missing

:marsey57:

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They're is like a billion+ people living in india. you could just set up a big meat grinder with a sign above it that says "free white woman" and they would process themselves

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All meat is energy and space inefficient compared to plants though

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With opportunity cost, it's a question of "which plan is most profitable compared to the second-most valuable plan," so the net profit of each plan is at stake. The answer hinges upon the market prices of the output (product) and of the inputs, with land being one factor. Let's ignore the demand for the product and focus on costs of production. Efficiency is essentially a ratio of output to input. The 'production maximizing' choice would be the inputs which are cheapest and yield the highest output. Land, or "space," is a relatively cheap input in the US of A and since it's a relatively low fixed cost, it's not the biggest concern for efficiency (because of marginalism). The biggest cost factors are labor and 'capital' like machines.

How about "energy" or "calories per pound?" The People can eat millet and get by, but they'll lack nutrients and protein. This would be most "efficient" if everything is geared toward this goal, but in reality it's r-slurred because it ignores the larger picture (demand). Focusing on efficiency doesn't fully satisfy the question of opportunity cost because it depends on what satisfies consumers (demand and price of output).

tl;dr - killing people to harvest their proteins is more costly than raising cattle.

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Your argument rests on the rslurred assumption you can't be healthy eating vegetables

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:marseydisagreefast:

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:#marseywoah:

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You can't read anyway, stupid bot.

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Humans are intrinsically more valuable than animals, you r-slur

Arguments like this is why people hate vegans

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R-slurs hate vegans because they know vegans are right.

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its right because i just know it is stop being mean!!!!!!

Okay rslur

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neighbors really look at the greatest triumphs of mankind and say "we're not worth more than animals" :marseylaugh:

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guys help me please he's being mean look at him

Lmao

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Who are you quoting?

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You

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Because you canโ€™t give humans a comfortable life while farming them due to the innate fear of death. I suppose you could hide it from them but most people are naturally curious and someone would find out eventually. Especially since providing a happy life would require regular interaction with other humans and trips to the outdoors.

This is the same logic I apply to dogs actually. All dogs have jobs they are hardwired to do and in order to be happy they have to do them. This is why keeping dogs as pets in environments unsuited to them (like a city) is cruel also. Ultimately no one is going to spend the resources to ethically farm dogs because the cost outweighs the rewards. Thatโ€™s why I can say with relative certainty that eating dog is immoral while eating locally raised chicken and beef isnโ€™t.

Itโ€™s funny to be arguing from a carnist standpoint since Iโ€™m a functional vegetarian anyways. I just donโ€™t like the taste of meat lol.

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Killing is fine as long as they don't see it coming

:marseynotes#:

Got it

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That's why I'm pro abortion (no, not pro-choice, I hate giving women rights)!

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I am a libertarian

:marseypedosnipe:

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Reddit moment

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Starts comments with "As a vegetarian", "As a libertarian".

Accuses others of being reddit.

:marseylaugh::marseylaugh:

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its funny because we're repeating the joke

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it does

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Based morally consistent cannibal

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Humans are more useful as organ donors, and we do do that

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God said it was ethical to eat certain animals, so it would be sinful to do otherwise

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Religion is one of those things where I kind of just assume the person is low IQ unless they're just doing it for the community aspect and social advantages (or for the cute trad korean girls, I've been there I'm not gonna deny it, but even that wasn't enough to overlook how completely rslurred organized religion is)

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Wow you're really enlightened

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No its the equivalent of 1+1=2, its not impressive but it is sad if you frick it up

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That's a great little quip

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Christcucks stay seething

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About 7 years ago this would be an own, but all the tradcath christcucks have opened the floodgates of r-sluration online in the past few years so now these neckbeard atheist statements are looking less and less cringe by comparison.

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Literally any moral framework either has to appeal to a superhuman authority or admit to being moral relativism. You either appeal to a personified god, or to some abstract notion of "science" or "nature" or "justice". But at the end of the day it's just Munchausen's trilemma- you have to make some axiomatic assumptions that have no basis other than "it's true because it just is, okay!"

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I agree with you, my core belief is "unnecessary killing and suffering is wrong" but you can choose a different one like "an imaginary guy who makes rules that benefit people in positions of power tell me they'll hurt me after im dead if i dont do what they say"

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Don't know why you're being such a cute twink about this

I like cats. I walk in the street, I see cats. I feed street cats, I see people feeding/petting/adopting street cats. I would never eat a cat.

I've never been near a cow in real life. I know it happens but I don't see them being slaughtered. I don't feel bad about eating meat.

And even if I did feel bad and stopped eating meat, it's not like it would stop they being butchered.

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:marseynpcmad::marseynpcmad::marseynpcmad::marseynpcmad::marseynpcmad::marseynpcmad::marseynpcmad:

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:#marseysmoothbrain:

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i know you're baiting but most people unironically think this way, its really fricking sad

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>I've never been near a cow in real life.

fricking touch grass for real

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I feed street cats,

:#marseycrusader2: Stop right there, criminal scum!

Your actions diminish social well-being. You will abide by the maximization principle of utilitarianism, or you will be punished.

And even if I did feel bad and stopped eating meat, it's not like it would stop they being butchered.

This is true at an individual level (see: collective action problems & tragedy of the commons); however, it's a description of an issue, so it cannot morally address "solutions" at a larger scale such as public policy.

:marseythemoreyouknow:

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Comments like these help my moral compass go in the direction of enabling cannibalism. Not out of need for survival or any ethical comparison with animals, I just think some people need to be reminded that they can and will be eaten.

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:#soyquack:

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If those chickens are getting killed anyway, why not take advantage of it and get some delicious food from it?

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I've eaten a bull that used to follow me around the fields when I was on a quad, dunno if it's worse I kept him for the family

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โ€œNoooo dude why do you eat meat itโ€™s not heckkin logical my heckkin logicโ€ :sciencejak:

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What do you value in this life and why?

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>All these sneeding dramatard replies

:#marseykingcrown:

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"I know and don't care" is literally the only right answer. Not everything people do should be ideologically pure. The expectation that everyone consider the macro impact of their actions is postmodern bullshit

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Okay but im going to apply that logic to stealing from you

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Why? I'm not saying the animals can't be mad at me for eating them; I wouldn't begrudge them of that. A random person in Ohio who feels strongly about eating meat, however, isn't entitled to an explanation for me eating meat.

If the government wants to make meat-eating illegal, the same way theft is, I'm not about to continue eating meat and claim I shouldn't be arrested. It's not comparable.

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I know and don't care

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Counter argument, everyone going vegan would be pretty gay.

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The virgin

>Nooooooo your ethical framework doesnt give equal rights to r-slurs, gypsies, rabbits and other animals :marseysoycry: this isnt fair! Im right about ethics even though no great philospher has agreed with my r-sluration and I have the worldview of a 25 year old mayofoid with no life experience

Vs the Chad

>keep what you kill, kill what you eat :gigachad:

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Obviously at the end of the day might makes right which is why my house is filled with guns

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Based

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Killing something for breaking a rule it can't consent to or understand is not very ethical either.

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Wrong, its morally permissible to kill humans in self defense regardless of it they agreed to the no murder rule or understand it, the same logic is just being applied to animals

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But you didn't, you specified property theft. If a human were to pick up a fruit from your garden and you shot them without even trying to communicate with them that it's yours that is hardly defensible ethically.

If you want to propose that it's ethical to kill your a coyote just trying to live you'd need to at least attempt to genuinely solve it without violence without success first.

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Okay you deserved a better response than this one let me finish my coffee

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In this case I'd say that pretty much all the rights an animal are going to realistically violate are going to be cases where lethal force is justifiable (false imprisonment, assault with a dangerous weapon, etc), the fruit picking one is a good counter-example though and I'd say if you're going to die if they eat your crop its justified by your right to self-defense, otherwise it'd be better to use non-lethal methods of detterence rather than just blasting

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ethically reasonable moral framework

aesthetics valuation

Otherwise there is no acceptable moral framework to want to frick prettier people.

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What if I breed and select the animals myself. Like if the animals wouldn't exist without my intervention. Why can I not kill them for profit? They're my property. (Yes I would apply this to human beings)

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I mean that'd be morally consistent but you might run into other problems there

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Holy shit you guys are so triggered

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I mean isnโ€™t that the point of this site to blow everything out of proportion are you being silly

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I don't usually come back to rdrama and see 30 notifications from people dying to represent me as a soyjak lol

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:soyjaktalking:

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So many not triggered people

![](/images/16771681412164257.webp)

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:marseyagree:

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If I canโ€™t kill an animal that I own, wouldnโ€™t that be an infringement of my property rights? :marseysmug:

I know a guy that was veg unless he helped kill the animal, some :marseycherokee: thing. Might do that if I have the willpower, it sounds kind of based and I donโ€™t have many weird neurodivergent habits to center my life around.

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Im :marseycherokee: too and i gotta say eating only what you kill is about 20000x more respectable than going to the market and buying tendies made of 3000 once living creatures mashed together into fun shapes by machines so you can pretend the food is cruelty free

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It's fairly simple: antispeciecism is evil and we only treat animals better than bacteria (in some countries. for the last couple of decades.) because it would make US sad. Give me a trolley problem with an infinite amount of animals on one track and one human on the other and the correct choice is obvious :marseyshrug:

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I gave the laconic version of the argument, the actual argument is suffering based which avoids falling into the every cell deserves to live trap

On that note, im pro-abortion

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