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EFFORTPOST No More GDKP Runs in Classic WoW says Blizzard - Dad g*mers on suicide watch.

Context

Introduction

World of Warcraft released in 2004 and quickly became basically the video game as it reached unparalleled acclaim not only in its own genre but even hitting mainstream numbers. As many more expansions followed which either (i) ruined the game by making it too hard or (ii) ruined the game by making it too easy ("baby mode"), Blizzard eventually realized after seeing the success of a plethora of private servers, many of which ran by third world scammers offering pay-to-win services, that an official server running the initial version of the game - hence named World of Warcraft Classic - would not only make them a massive amount of money, but also quell the purgatorial fire the latest expansions and recent scandals have ignited. They have later also added the first expansion and the second expansion to the classic era cycle with Cataclysm (the fourth expansion) being added later this year. However, most people usually agree that Cataclysm (which released in 2010. irreversibly ruined the original game and that it isn't part of the original triology.

The next logical step, of course, was using the basic version of a game as a foundational element and add new content on top of it, essentially having multiple versions of the game active at the same time. So instead of only having;

  • WoW -> The Burning Crusade -> Wrath of the Lich King -> Cataclysm -> ?

and

  • WoW -> The Burning Crusade -> ... -> Dragonflight (the current Retail expansion)

they now use Classic as a base and add content on top of it and checking out what actually sticks, calling it fittingly Season of Discovery:

  • WoW -> WoW Classic Season of Discovery (I'll keep calling it Classic from now on I think :marseyteehee:)

What does Season of Discovery do differently?

There is tons of new content that wasn't in the original game and the goal is to gradually progress through the original game and provide small but meaningful alterations. This process is divided into multiple phases with each phase selecting a certain part of the game's core features and changing them in some way. The first phase, for example, had the game's level capped at 25 (instead of the original 60. and transformed a somewhat unpopular dungeon (5-Men-Content) into a 10-Men-Raid making it essentially end game content. It also introduced runes (basically key abilities for each class) that change the core aspect of some classes and some other features that aren't relevant here. Furthermore, phase 2 was announced a couple of days ago with the objective to increase the level cap and make Gnomeregan (another 5-men-dungeon) into a new raid amongst other stuff.

Alright that's fetch and all but where is the drama?

As announced by Blizzard in its Season of Discovery Phase 2 post, gold dragon kill points (GDKP) raids in World of Warcraft Classic Season of Discovery are going the way of the dodo on February 8:

We are experimenting with a new policy which will no longer allow GDKP runs in Season of Discovery. While we understand that there are some benefits for those who find this a convenient way to gain gear, we also recognize that there are concerns surrounding the erosion of traditional guild and social structures that are a part of the spirit of Season of Discovery. Given the experimental nature of Season of Discovery, we want to try things without this type of transaction taking place in this game mode. With the launch on February 8, we will be restricting this activity. We will have more information to share on our official channels and will be monitoring feedback closely.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1141970.jpg

I'm not a turbovirgin so what the frick does GDKP mean?

GDKP, or Gold Dragon Kill Points, is a loot system in World of Warcraft where players bid in-game gold on loot drops during raids. The highest bid wins the item. It's a twist on the traditional DKP (Dragon Kill Points) system, which uses points earned through raids. Usually at the end of the run you add up all the gold then split it evenly so people that don't need anything make gold and people who need gear get the items they want. There are some variations to this that include factors such as bidding, performance and attendance, but you get the gist of it by understanding the aforementioned sentence.

Alright so people use gold to bid on items they want, what's the big deal?

There are some blatant issues with this and I'll only mention a couple of points here because this topic has always been quite controversial and before you can somewhat form your opinion on this you need to understand a couple of things:

  • Bots: Classic WoW has so many bots it is simply unbelievable. There are thousands upon thousands on them with Blizzard seemingly being incapable of spotting them. They ruin the economy by making farming for materials useless and by introducing a shit ton of gold into the game, which of course is sold for real money called RMT (= Real Money Transaction).

  • The player base: Classic World of Warcraft is an old game. In fact, it's a very old game that still is popular. Yeah, yeah some actual boomers might disagree with this but World of Warcraft is old and quite dated - especially in its original form. Sure, there are some major patches that set it up to ca. 2006 standards but it lacks many quality-of-life features, actual content and more imporatntly a younger audience. I'm not implying that Retail WoW is a better version of the game, I'm just saying that Classic is obviously catered towards a different audience - and it shows. The average Classic player is in his 40s, balding with a nagging wife and twenty children and five jobs and is actually incapable of playing the game. Also, people can cope however they want but video game skill decreases significantly and players in the 2000s were never good to begin with. The amount of Classic players that are borderline r-slurred is mindblowing, especially considering my second point:

  • The difficulty: Let's face it. Classic World of Warcraft is not hard. Sure, its leveling is time consuming, its world is immersive, it is fun to play but it is definitely not hard, not during leveling, not during the dungeons and especially not during raiding. In fact, compared to current Retail WoW, its endgame content is a joke - and everyone knows this. However given the aforementioned point (people suck at the game), people can overcome a lot of the annoying things such as fighting for loot, or doing the raids yourself by actually paying other players (with gold) to carry them through the content. Boosts exist in every version of every MMO ever but in WoW they are everywhere and especially in Classic it is hard to NOT see them. What's the point of doing all of that if you can just try to clear the content on your own? Well, people usually log stuff which essentially means that your performance on the bosses is uploaded to an external site - and other people actually care enough to check your logs before they invite you to their groups. Bad logs equals bad players which means no invite.

=> So you add (1) + (1) together and you'll realize that people just use gold to clear the content and get the items they want so they can wait until the next patch and do it all over again. It doesn't take two paragraphs to figure out where this gold comes from, right? RMT. As a result, GDKPs motivate people to buy gold through RMT—but they're also a great cover for these operations, too. As this player on the classic subreddit points out, "one person breaking the ToS by buying gold for RMT can come into a raid and spend it among people who are not breaking the ToS … now all that gold is clean and gets used to buy raid consumes which are farmed by bots, who use that gold to sell back to the gold buyers." The snake eats its own tail. GDKPs also create a culture of exclusivity, locking players who might otherwise do fine in a pick-up group out of a game's casual raiding scene. Plenty of GDKPs have buy-ins, with one player in November alleging that a Wrath of the Lich King group was asking for 144,000 gold for a lifetime spot which is roughly 5000 dollars.

This is made worse by the fact that GDKP runs hamstring player motivation to get out into the world (of Warcraft) and farm. Nobody likes to grind, and the GDKP payout means you can just go buy your materials and consumables for the next raid from the auction house. But this can create a sort of symbiotic relationship between gold farmers and actual players—the only people giving a supply for the demand inevitably become the ToS-violating organisations that nonetheless make this sort of thing their day job.

At the end of day even Blizzard realized enough is enough and made GDKPs a bannable thingy (warning blogpost):

GDKP in Season of Discovery

Starting with Phase 2 of Season of Discovery, we are going to experiment with a policy change: We will no longer support or allow GDKP or “gold bid” raids and dungeons in Season of Discovery. We've seen many questions about this policy change, so please read on for our answers and more information.

What is GDKP and why is it being restricted in Season of Discovery?

GDKP is a loot system some players use that essentially allows all loot to be purchased in a dungeon or raid using gold rather than being rolled for or awarded using another loot system. How this typically works is that an item drops and is then put up for gold bid among the members of the group. Players will submit their bids in gold, and the highest bidder wins. After the item is won, gold is traded to the loot master, and then that gold is usually divided among all the raid members.

It's fair to say that GDKP has some benefits to individuals who don't want to be tied to a guild or set raid schedule. GDKP raids are, while mostly transactional in nature, another social activity in the game, and we're hesitant to discourage anything that gets people into groups to play together. However, we've been concerned that GDKP erodes traditional guild and social structures that are in many cases the basis of our most fond memories of early versions of World of Warcraft. It's also undeniable that GDKP contributes to and drives a lot of illicit activity, such as real-money trading (RMT) and botting, as it creates a demand for in-game gold that would not otherwise exist. GDKP can create an “arms race” effect that encourages participating players to purchase gold to be able to compete for the best items.

We've seen a lot of feedback and requests from players for us to try putting restrictions on this system, and since Season of Discovery is highly experimental in its nature, this seems like a good opportunity to try to support a version of WoW without GDKP. This is something we've been discussing for quite some time, and this is not a decision we've arrived at lightly.

What exactly constitutes a “gold bid” or GDKP raid?

We're defining GDKP as any raid or dungeon run where items are awarded in exchange for gold. Please note that we have multiple detection methods for GDKP that are effective both inside and outside of dungeon or raid instances.

What are the penalties for engaging in GDKP in Season of Discovery?

Account actions up to and including suspension and permanent account closure.

When exactly does this policy go into effect?

We'll enact this policy alongside the release of Phase 2 of Season of Discovery on February 8, 2024, at 1:00 p.m. PST.

Does this policy change affect WoW Classic Era, WoW Classic Hardcore, Wrath of the Lich King Classic, or any other version of World of Warcraft other than Season of Discovery?

No. At this time, this policy change will only affect WoW Classic: Season of Discovery.

Have there been any changes to policies around what is allowed to be advertised in Trade or LookingForGroup chat in Season of Discovery?

Yes. To go along with this policy update in Season of Discovery, it is no longer permitted to advertise gold bid/GDKP runs in Trade, LookingForGroup, or any other in-game chat channel.

Player feedback is what led us here, and we're still keenly interested to hear your thoughts and feelings on this topic. Ultimately this is a test, and if it doesn't work out, we'll revisit this policy for later phases of Season of Discovery. We really appreciate the feedback we've already received on this topic which helped us arrive at this decision.

Why is that such a big deal. Shouldn't it be great?

It is but I'll let you decide.


Reactions

Official Forum

(Just a selection there are SOOOOO many threads about this):

Banning GDKPs is enforcing communism

GDKP is ban, help me find a new loot system

Revert the GDKP change

GDKP people deserve to all be banned. In fact it took way too long. Good move

GDKP Alternative

Blizzard ban GDKP in SOD but not in WOTLK or Cataclysm or Era


r/Classicwow

No more GDKP [3000 FRICKING COMMENTS LMAO :marseyxd:]

Some examples:

https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1aed4y0/no_more_gdkp/kk7b4ht/?context=8

Man I'll miss GDKPs. It's actually a great community for all the flack it gets on Reddit. Raiders are incentivized to clear quickly and stay for the entire run.

One of the issues I had with SR runs was people would SR a bis item off an early boss then dip if it doesn't drop. That NEVER happens in GDKPs.

Now people will get to enjoy the authentic wow classic experience of corrupt loot councils and pug raid leads hard reserving the bis items for themselves.

Easy solution is to check logs and dont join groups with HR. Sorry you cant swipe your credit card through the game anymore.

gdkps in classic were my favorite and I never have bought gold once. honestly i evaded most gold checks just by being a healer. as a holy priest I was ALWAYS broke with no good way to farm so gdkps were how I earned anything for consumes.

I don't even run them in SOD but it's the only loot system that works for pug 20 and 40 mans. No other system incentivizes people to perform well or not AFK after the boss who's loot they wanted dies.

https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1aed4y0/no_more_gdkp/kk7b2ib/?context=8

People complaining about GDKPs they never attend. We have big communities of people who run lots of raids together and the way we like to do it is GDKP because its objectively a great loot system. Anyone can hop into a random raid and it's worth their time. Why would I join a LC or DKP guild's run? It will take me 1-3 months to start getting good items. Enjoy losing the roll on the epic staff for the 4th time to the fresh alt who just hit 25 that day.

All of the problems people have with GDKP (Gold buying, Botting, etc) are external to GDKPs themselves and will continue to exist with or without GDKPs.

You have people in your guild and raid teams right now who have bought gold to buy BOE items, raid consumables, and soon their mounts. They're the problem, not GDKPs.

Shame they're trying to break up our communities because of this.

It still affects me even if I don't join. GDKPs launder huge amounts of gold for swipers and drive prices way up for the rest of us.

..

I TOO LOVE TO SELL GOLD.

https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1aed4y0/no_more_gdkp/kk7bir0/?context=8

The biggest scourge of classic has taken its biggest hit. Lets hope blizzard can commit to keeping the scum out of SoD

So a month from now, when everything is exactly as it's always been despite the GDKP ban, will you come back here and admit that you grossly overestimated the effect that GDKPs have on the game?

Zzzzz. Cry more gold buyer.

He's right tho. Now with gdkps gone people will start just log checking pugs and you butt still won't get into runs


Then there's also this fantastic thread:

Price of gold drops more than 50% on GDKP ban announcement. I was wrong and am now starting to believe. [600+ comments]

Looked around this morning and found this graph (image below). For obvious reasons won't be listing the source, so unsure of how accurate it is. Regardless:

I was wrong and I'm shocked. I did not think the GDKP ban would have this type of an impact.

As an Auction House man, I never needed to buy gold to do GDKPs. I really was one of those people who believed that most others doing GDKPs also are earning their gold legimiately, and just a few bad eggs. Moreover I believed (and still do) that GDKPs, assuming no RMT, is arguably the best and most efficient form of loot distribution.

But seeing data like this... darn. There is NO WAY that the gold price can drop that much unless it is a PRIMARY demand driver for gold buying. I was mad about GDKP ban, and we still need to see how this shakes out in the long haul, but for now... I'm on board.

https://preview.redd.it/waso3unutrfc1.png?


And another funny one:

GDKPs would be fine if we lived in a perfect world. But we live in the real world. [550+ comments]

And in the real world, Blizzard is either too incompetent/lazy to ban all bots/gold buyers, or it is simply impossible for them to do so. Whichever is true doesn't really matter.

Let's be honest with ourselves:

Swiping your credit card to buy gear is fricking stupid

The economy being massively inflated by bots is fricking stupid

GDKPs are the #1 incentive for botting/gold buying

Will banning GDKPs remove all instances of people swiping for gear? Of course not. People can still use other platforms to facilitate transactions. People will find workarounds in-game. Bots will always exist. People will still buy gold.

Banning GDKPs is a band aid solution to a greater problem. But that greater problem has been plaguing the game for years now. The vast majority of normal players have their experience lessened by bot inflation. Interacting with the economy is one of the most fun aspects of classic wow, because gold actually matters. It feels really bad as an honest player when you feel like you cant compete for certain items on the market because their price is jacked up so high to capitalize on the deep pockets of gold buyers (looking at you, Troll's Bane Leggings being 250g week 1).

Banning GDKPs won't completely fix the economy, but it will help. I'd much rather people use real money through venmo to buy gear than gold. And while I do sympathize with honest GDKP enjoyers, the harsh truth is that the average player's experience matters more. This really is a necessary evil.

EDIT: GDKP might not be the #1 incentive for botting/gold buying, but my point still stands. Cope harder swipers


And a bunch of other threads I won't bother going into detail:

GDKPers realizing they bought all that gold on a 32% APR Discover Card [250+ comments]

GDKP groomercord organizer quits P2 SOD [200+ comments]

[Next week be like[(https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1af4tm2/next_week_be_like) [100+ comments]

When you can't cheat in a 20 year old computer game [400+ comments]

How it feels with all this fuss over gdkp's [250+ comments]

Satire [400+ comments]

Suspension or Permaban for GDKP confirmed for SoD [650+ comments]


Asmongold

And of course, Asmongold already made a 30min video about all of this:

with ~2000 comments and 500k views and some comments here:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17067288329501438.webp


!g*mers get in here!

carp capy moon schizo geto pin please :marseybegging:

137
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You see, if Blizzard had any brains they would open up a fricking GM realm and just turn the game into a fricking sandbox.

EchelonedWoW (RIP MY LOVE) was peak back in 08. Register, hop in, /createphase <funny number=""> and add in gameobject spawning and npc placement (WITH CUSTOM PATHING YOU COULD SETUP) and holy shit i kid you not these nerds were building fricking empires and their own canonical lore. In case anyone still doesnt get it, this was a RP private server; and it was one of the best darn ones out there until Khell just gave up the project due to looming DMCA threats from Blizzard.</funny>

Then came DivinityX, a cheap quick patch for those who felt ever so wronged by the previous communtiy's decision to shut its doors. Edcept this one was ran by a narcissistic Dominos pizza delivery driver named Kayne Illidon (fun fact, i bumped into him on the Shadowlands expac!! Still sporting the same name LMAO)

But what i'm getting at here is the frick up on Blizzard; through donating around roughly $12 you were given certain permissions, one of those being database access, and by God were those some formative years of blindly crawling massive mysql tables to try and find the item ID and model ID you were trying to make for your custom weapons/armor.

Now, do some stupid math, and when you have an average daily player count of roughly 500-700 plus and multiply that by 12, ontop of the new players who would join, see all the perks, and absolutely shit the bed about it; there was A LOT of money being made. Probably nothing on par to WoWTokens current yield, but if Blizzard actually wanted to squeeze more blood from its already dying game doing something like this would probably reignite a huge portion of the player base while bringing in the big bucks

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Nice schizo ramblings I will pin it.

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Thanks babe 😘

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Why rely on these shitty big companies for something like that?

Surely 10 codeclels could build a community-focused game like that.

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I wish. Im pretty sure khell dumped his source somewhere out in the world, but every imitation besides DivinityX has been a complete cash grab mainly ran by jeets or of the sort.

Always with the "freeware" message boards, broken links, but paypal gift option definitely working as it should of course.

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I'm surprised nothing like OpenMW has sprung up. I don't think making a WoW clone would be super hard with modern tech.

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You can type 10,000 characters and you decided that these were the one's that you wanted.

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None of the words i typed are featured in the Bible.

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Please note that we have multiple detection methods for GDKP that are effective both inside and outside of dungeon or raid instances.

:#marseysurejan: :#surejan: :#carpsurejan:

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>running Botanica fifty times in a row is typical human behaviour. :marseyindignant:

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>WoW player

>Human

:#carpsmug:

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Why are g*ymers still playing a game from 2005?

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:#marseyautism: :#marseyrs:

Yes

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Holy shit I completely forgot that BC Heroics and the TK dungeons are like "current content" in a form of WoW now.

People will really pay money to be punched in the peepee over and over again huh.

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Oh, they absolutely do have the detection methods. Bot detection in general is a solved problem and has been for ages. There are papers about ragnarök online and there's an AION dataset floating around that has been used in tons of research papers (10+ years).

One of the Blizz security engineers also did a talk at a conference a few years ago paper link (warning pdf) and there's also a video of the talk floating around (my local file has the name WoW_secure_economy_talk.mp4 if you want to look for it). The talk is mainly about scaling technology etc and the software the guy developed for Blizz, but it's a good example.

On p20 of the pdf you can see a poc of him predicting the value of a commodity in the AH. On the bottom you also see a huge outlier and of the sold price of an item, which suggests a gold transaction.

The really interesting part though is on p23. On the middle/left part you see an account (id 4954. that has purchased items significantly higher than what you consider normal. And all his neighbouring points are already similar accounts (and have purchased from other similar accounts).

The problem though is: Blizz doesn't do shit against it.

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If they really can detect bots reliably, why wouldnt they do anything against them? They have no advantage not banning them.

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Because a paying sub is a paying sub. Their incentive is not to ban them instantly, but instead at the point in which the bot operator finds it economical to buy a new account. This creates an infinite cycle of new bot accounts that all pay money. Sometimes the human paypigs get uppity though and they have to do something about their bot harvest early (like right now).

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Ohh I didnt know they still had the subscription system lol. That explains it.

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Nobody who runs bots pays for their sub. They all use stolen credit cards.

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Blizz doesn't care where the money comes from as long as they get it.

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It's still money r-slur

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They have no advantage not banning them.

the botters have to pay $15/mo per account as well

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Have you owned the libs yet?

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Aren't these the same people that had a huge bot problem in classic that they couldn't solve leading to a huge inflation in gold prices and devaluing of many rare mats?

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It's an issue in retail too, or was back when I last played years ago, but they just don't care. A sub is a sub, the botters are paying too.

They'd generally bot around zones from earlier expansions where there aren't many real players. Sometimes you'd walk into a zone and it would be really laggy. You'd see the reason soon enough - literally like a hundred bots all running in circles killing anything they see.

It's not like the bots are subtle in ANY way at all. I'm sure Blizzard could tell just by looking at server load ALONE where the bots are. They just don't care.

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Woops wanted to include the fast drop in value too :marseyteehee:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17067292242613873.webp

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FIFTY DKP MINUS!

:#marseyraging:

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For the zoomies:

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I like how this joke video is actually extremely accurate to how the fight works

You could legit learn the fight listening to him rage

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Yeah, it is a sound file from a vanilla raid after all.

But he is wrong with the aggro reset/reduction (it does exist). But hey, that was 2005? or something like that, so no harm in not knowing it.

And I heard it some of the sound is now used in addons like dbm/bigwigs as a joke in the classic versions of the boss fight.

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the man is also the perfect specimen of a yuro dramatard

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My god this brings back memories.

eta: oh shit the "fricking" stick figure is edited here. wtf? It's been defaced!


Krayon sexually assaulted his sister. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241526738973.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241426254768.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17156480765435808.webp

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eta: oh shit the "fricking" stick figure is edited here. wtf? It's been defaced!

Yeah, it did say "YouTube Approved Edition" but I cba to look for the old version :marseyantiwork2:

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He uploaded it to Rumble and linked it in comments on the vidya. yay! That video brings back so many memories.


Krayon sexually assaulted his sister. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241526738973.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241426254768.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17156480765435808.webp

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You one of those WoW girls? How many guilds did you ruin? Or were you one of the good ones? iirc we had 3 good ones and 1 who tried to ruin the guild, but the good ones protected us from her and she just left with her bf.

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I was only in two. The first one was a starter and then the last one. I was a shit talker (surprise surprise) but the other girls were chill. The one girl had a military husband though and found out she was flirting with dudes. While we were raiding, he went into a rage and threw her computer and monitor outside. lmao


Krayon sexually assaulted his sister. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241526738973.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241426254768.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17156480765435808.webp

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someone found the guy and interviewed him not too long ago. he's definitely a depressed alchy (he was getting progressively more drunk through the video lol)

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oh shit I need to find that. I know there was a second video of him but it didn't hit as hard as this one. I think someone interviewed him back in the day after it came out.

2 of my guild mates died. One from drugs and another randomly in his sleep after he flew back from Disney with his kids. Probably drugs but he didn't seem like a junkie. I always thought he mighta been one of those unlucky people who sat allll day long and had a weird embolism hit his heart. We all know that WoW players don't move from their chairs.


Krayon sexually assaulted his sister. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241526738973.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241426254768.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17156480765435808.webp

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>Cataclysm classic

that's actually happening?

:#marseyxd:

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Wrath has all the issues cata has in that there's literally frick all to do besides raid or arena and people are still playing it. Maybe without GDKPs going off every 2 hours some of these 50 year old neets will feel less compelled to raidlog on 20 chars.

Strangely I think the worst part of wrath->cata's issue is that it was finally when a lot of bad players got to max level and just found out they don't like the wow endgame or just felt lost. Which is fine really, raiding is neat and there's basically 2 games that even offer it and all the ones that offer pvp like wow are Corean trap games (blade & soul) that will be closed by the time you hit max level; but leveling+exploring is a lot of fun (the first time) and they got their fun from it. Never forget the GC post about how most wow accounts "don't really do anything."

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Wrath at least was fun to play, cata is 1000000% dogshit trash

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found the incel

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found the s*x haver

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Wrath has all the issues cata has in that there's literally frick all to do besides raid or arena and people are still playing it.

:#marseyxd::#marseyfoidretard:

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He is not wrong though.

When I was 12 I joined halfway into TBC and I was halfway into WOTLK when I hit 80 and then at raids you had people like myself in full greens and blues who only chose talents and gear based on how good the icons or abilities looked. Nowadays it would take maybe a week or two to start full clearing wotlk naxx.

SoD is fun to play for the first weeks, but if I had to play everyday I'd kms.

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they's right, wrath killed wow

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if they dont skip to legion classic after this i am gonna be PISSED

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:#marseypanda2:

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kino expansion ngl

anyone who disagrees is wrong mop was so good

(warlock main)

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mop was good in the sense it made most people go "what the frick am I doing with my life" and quit

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That was Wrath tbh.

Soooo many people quit but the influx of new players cancelled it out.

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I'm not sure you could be any more wrong

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17067386871906688.webp

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I know the numbers!!!!

Wrath just had way more new players joining the game as they saw le hecking lich king. Mop had none of that + unpopular theme. :marseyshrug:

Let me cope in peace please.

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Cata's theme was worse. "Let's frick up what everyone loves and also there's a bipoc dragon. That's the new content" :marseybigbrain:

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okay :marseycheerupretard:

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MOP was bad but cata gave me fury pvp so atleast it had something good.

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I was extremely casual in MoP but PvP was so fun as warlock main, being able to move while casting was so OP. I was running destro and doing casual BGs and getting like 60 HK, 50 KB, and maybe 3 deaths consistently. it was so stupid, i felt like a raid boss

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I was gonna type what does asmongoloid think of this but you got it covered :marseyfallout:

thank god im not a wowirgin

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I can't imagine playing wow in current year. It was a ton of fun for me like 15 years ago, and that was when the magic ended.

I seriously question the mental state of anyone who plays it now, it is dated af.

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>Nooo you can't play a game just as it was 15 years ago noooo that's crazy stop enjoying yourself noooooooo

:marseysoycrytyping: :!boomermonster:

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I would still play WoW if the sub fee that only still exists for legacy reasons didn't make me feel like such a sucker.

But then you might say "just grind it with gold" and that's what I've been doing. I bought every expansion and sub from WoD since Shadowlands with in-game gold. But even then having really good gold/hour rates with M+ or raid boosts you reach a point where you start to wonder just what the heck you are doing, grinding to not pay for a game you don't really want to pay for to the point of it not even being that fun? That's too much introspection for a hobby.

Probably doesn't help that I play ret and if you want to raid a serious level you need to invest a bunch of time into cutting edge bis. Fricking WoW. :marseygamer:

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M+ and raiding are still rather unique gameplay designs that haven't really been done well in any other game.

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:marsey#party: :marsey#party: :marsey#party: :marsey#party: :marsey#party:

POORBROS... WE'RE SO BACK :#marseyhappening: :#marseyhappening: :#marseyhappening: :#marseyhappening:

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The other neurodivergent MMO for men in a mid-life crisis Old School Runescape solved this problem by adding various hyper autismo modes where you can't interact with the wider economy and thus don't screech constantly about botters. That way the middle aged men can have all the end game gear while telling everyone they had to use their credit card as they have 17 kids and 53 jobs with less screeching!

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ironman btw

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:marseyhesright:

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Ironman mode saved the game tbh. I still get bored and can only play for a month or two before taking a couple months off, but I couldn't stand to play main at all after creating an Ironman.

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i only ever did one gdkp, got like four pieces of gear and got back half the gold i spent cus i was healing. i agree with blizzy on this one tho gdkps in general are ruining the game

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Yeah your experience was far too common and people were having fun

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There's a guy on Living Flame US alliance named Needful (N eedful frick you word filter) that calls everyone sir and every Ashenvale pvp event raid I joined with him in it (pretty early in the phase) he'd be saying stuff like “any Dramanaughts in here?”

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you didnt reveal yourself right anon?

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50 DKP MINUS

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Classic WoW leveling and dungeons are absolutely more difficult than retail. Leveling and dungeons in retail are a joke.

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I'd take 10 hours of braindead fast leveling over 100 hours of easy slow leveling every day of the week. :marseyindignant:

The only difference is that Classic stays at the same easy difficulty but Retail's difficulty actually increases. If anything, Retail is actually too hard these days.

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If anything, Retail is actually too hard these days.

What do you mean? Just install the 500 addons then configure the scripting on them to your exact class, spec, and all the fights you're going to be doing. Don't forget the mod to play airhorns when you're standing on the green aoe on the green floor. Just 700 wipes and you too can clear a mythic raid boss.

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If you don't have professional experience in LUA API development and typescript webapps, why are you even playing wow?

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The real issue is finding a group of 20 people that doesn't have any mouthbreathers in it.

My friends got me to come back for Shadowlands (lmao) but I couldn't take the mythic raiding shit. I never fricked up any mechanics but some other moron always would, then it was a wipe.

If M+ wasn't so shitty especially SL season 1 I might still be playing. But they decided the mythic raids had to be the only place to get the best gear.

also I like torghast but I know a ton of people hated it. It was a nice fun game mode that didn't really take itself too seriously.

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I played retail in BfA and both the leveling and dungeons were braindead all the way to max level. 10 hours of braindead leveling? Why not just let people start close to max level? I wish they'd bring back original EQ style leveling where you either spent half a year leveling or had to go on welfare to play fulltime.

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You are correct, but MMOs are a dead genre in general. They simply don't fit in with current gaming trends.

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:#marseycry:

That just means they're due for a comeback.

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Honkai rail won couple of best multiplayer awards :marseycool2: without even having mp

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Mythic+ on retail isn't too bad if you're doing keys around the +20 level.

Complexity in raiding though has gone through the roof. The last time I seriously did cutting edge raiding was in Legion and there are heroic bosses this expansion that have a higher level of complexity than many mythic Legion bosses (though you can still outgear them and make them trivial). Mythic raiding complexity has gone through the roof, some bosses this expansion were absurdly complex.

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There is no content in classic that's difficult at all. Nothing even approaching a retail mythic dungeon, let alone a mythic raid.

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Do mythic dungeons require careful pulls and proper CC, or are they just mass pulling like the normal versions? I wasn't a fan of how generalist many classes were in retail, nor did I like the talent system and randomized gear. That was in BfA, though, things may have changed since then.

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I'm not a retail fan fwiw

Dungeon trash is still mostly easy. Honestly trash CC is boring and time consuming. Interrupts are important though, as is dodging some abilities.

The boss encounters are just more involved though. Most bosses in classic have virtually no mechanics at all in comparison.

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Honestly trash CC is boring and time consuming.

In Classic you had to CC and be careful with pulls unless you were very overgeared. It was an older style of MMO mechanics which seem to have largely faded away in favor of MOBA style stuff. More focus on players maneuvering and faster gameplay, rather than coordination.

The boss encounters are just more involved though.

Agreed, boss mechanics were easily the weakest part of Classic, although that started to improve with C'Thun and some Naxxramas bosses.

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In Classic you had to CC and be careful with pulls unless you were very overgeared.

You really don't. It was common practice in vanilla but that was because the players were even more r-slurred than they are today.

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Why even bother? Classic Andys are r-slurred.

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Lol, ok. What do I know, I only did sperg-tier raiding in Classic when it first released.

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Not very spergy if you had to CC trash in 5-mans lmao

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It was usually with the more difficult pulls in the endgame 5-mans/10-mans and groups usually took pulls one at a time. It wasn't just a run-and-gun like regular retail dungeons, at least not at first when people were gearing for MC. I was in Ahlaundoh's guild for a time so I definitely got a taste of the Classic autism.

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More comments

Neither of those takes is true.

Source: Me, who got his 1st hc char to 57 before dying.

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You think you would have ever died in retail had you played like you did with the hardcore character?

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found the incel

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:#marseysnappyautism:

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