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LSU_Coonass geaux/tiger :marseycoonass: :marseygras:  12d ago (tigerdroppings.com) 437 thread views #338330 earned 128 coins from votes
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Tigerdroppings figures out the real cause of the first plane crash on american soil in 15 years... :!marseytrain:S

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/rumor-tranny-was-flying-the-helicopter/117351362/
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>get caught lying

>Trump supporters reeeeee

You have time and time again pretended to be a super specialist in the history of US during Cold war, Korean War and Vietnam episode. And whenever someone challenges you, you claim they have no idea what they are talking about because they're "zoomers".

Do you even know what I'm talking about when I say Macnamara and Goldwater's split led to the push towards the CIA effectively taking over operational expansion in Saigon?

>bbbut I wuz older than you!!! :soyjaktantrum:

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pretended to be a super specialist in the history of US during Cold war, Korean War and Vietnam

Korea & Vietnam - I'm no expert but I know quite a bit. The Old Man was in Vietnam so I've got a ground level perspective on it too. I know lots of people from Korea, Cambodia, etc. who either experienced it first hand or second hand.

US during the Cold War

Well for one thing, I was actually alive during it. I think my parents give me pretty good coverage for almost all of it. The political stuff obviously they couldn't keep track of until they reach a certain age, but I think they're pretty good at showing me what life was like back then.

Do you even know what I'm talking about when I say Macnamara and Goldwater's split led to the push towards the CIA effectively taking over operational expansion in Saigon?

No I don't. Obviously Goldwater in the 1980s was involved in restructuring the military. But my impression was that congressional oversight of the war was very lacking back then and that's a reason for all distrust in the 1970s. But yeah, I'd love to hear about it.

the CIA effectively taking over operational expansion in Saigon

Not sure I'm following you on this. The ARVNs were responsible for controlling the city. CIA would of course be operating there because there's a war and that's the capital of the country. CIA paramilitary activity was mostly just supporting the Hmong because the South Vietnamese wouldn't. Later on the US Navy would get involved in the delta.

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>Obviously Goldwater in the 1980s was involved in restructuring the military. But my impression was that congressional oversight of the war was very lacking back then and that's a reason for all distrust in the 1970s.

No you idiot. Goldwater's failed bid at presidency which started when he said authoritarianism is cool when used to defend liberty (basically today's libs) led to a shit storm.

Before that Barry as the senator and Robert as a secdef were best pals who proposed just jtec exercises in training counterinsurgency and guerrilla to fight communism. Both were staunchly opposed to escalation.

After that comment though, MacNamara had to distance himself from the Republican Goldwater saying "too far bro". This led to Republicans under Goldwater trying to oppose any involvement of the US anywhere paralyzing LBJs foreign policy fighting them dirty commies since any proposal to deploy troops anywhere had to get support from some republicans with some in house eternal hippie democrats.

Quoted from US News and World Report after the Pentagon Paper leaks

On Capitol Hill, sharp comment came from Senator Barry Goldwater (Rep.), of Arizona, who was Lyndon Johnson's opponent in the 1964 presidential race.

Senator Goldwater said he knew during the 1964 campaign that Mr. Johnson was planning to bomb North Vietnam and to send U. S. troops into ground combat in South Vietnam.

In an interview on CBS television, Senator Goldwater said:

"I knew that these plans had been in the process of being made for several months."

The Senator also told an interviewer: "I was being called trigger-happy, warmonger, bomb-happy, and all the time Johnson was saying he'd never send American boys. I knew darn well he would."

This meant that the only option LBJ had left in his pocket was to involve the CIA and ratchet up the pressure until it was assured that troops had to be deployed.

Thus as Rolling Thunder was being promulgated, Operation Revolutionary Cadres was conceived alongside Chieu Hoi and Census Grievance which morphed into Op Phoenix later on.

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Barry as the senator and Robert as a secdef were best pals

Goldwater could come across the aisle but to portray him as besties with McNamara?

< Republicans under Goldwater trying to oppose any involvement of the US anywhere

Like where, specifically? I'm gonna be writing about that little excursion to Lebanon in 1958 soon. I've spent a great deal of time thinking about where the military in the early 1960s expected to get into a limited war. It's pretty much Indochina, Cuba, or somewhere in the Middle East.

hippie democrats.

You're telescoping. Hippies did not exist then.

This meant that the only option LBJ had left in his pocket was to involve the CIA and ratchet up the pressure until it was assured that troops had to be deployed.

You fricking moron. First, the CIA had already been there for a long time. Second, they actually fricking did this with the Gulf of Tonkin stuff. Are you people so determined to be r-slurred that you won't even recognize when the bad guys do exactly what you want?

Chieu Hoi and Census Grievance which morphed into Op Phoenix

:marseyfacepalm:

There's about a 98% chance you're beyond reasoning with so I'm not gonna try.

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I'm talking about the 1964 presidential campaign and it's repercussions r-slur

There's about a 98% chance you're beyond reasoning with so I'm not gonna try.

Explain why or concede larper

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You're being extremely selective in your quotes. He wasn't saying we should pull our guys out of Vietnam. He was saying we should nuke Vietnam.

Now that's not as crazy as it might sound at first, because the US had a totally overwhelming advantage in nuclear weapons over the Soviets until... about 1964.

We can talk about early 1960s nuclear weapon delivery systems if you want. I would love that.

Chieu Hoi and Census Grievance which morphed into Op Phoenix later on.

Something like 90% of the people on the list for Phoenix were arrested without a struggle. Surely you can find some to back you up. Chieu Hoi? Hundreds of thousands of guys. I'm gonna say the ball is in your court.

Let me emphasize to you again: Under Goldwater the H&I fire would get really spicy with an occasional nuclear shell thrown out there.

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>advisers in 50s

>Combat troops in 65

So pulling out troops before 64 presidential election was a moot question. You're wrong.

Second, Goldwater wanted to not commit boots on ground.

Third, about the ICEX and MACV and PIOCC & DIOCC under them as Phoenix came into play which put the PRU (People's Reconnaissance Unit) into action:

Most PRU recruits had previous military experience, often in elite South Vietnamese military units, such as the marines. Many had lost family members to VC violence, and revenge often served as a strong motivating factor. T he PRUs' American advisers also frequently had a military background. Indeed, until the late 1960s, most of the American advisers were serving military officers detailed to the CIA.

According to the CIA, anti-infrastructure operations—including those carried out by the PRUs, the National Police, and allied conventional military units—were responsible for capturing, killing, or persuading to defect ("neutralizing" in the somewhat sinister language of the time) more than 80,000 cadres during 1968–1972. Thomas Thayer described the PRUs—which had killed or captured roughly 380 cadres for every 1,000 men in the force during 1970, a figure that dipped to 263 per thousand the following year—as "the single most effective anti-VCI forces.

After the war, senior Vietnamese communist officials testified to the deadly utility of anti-infrastructure operations. Phoenix and associated efforts, according to a senior North Vietnamese officer, were "devious and cruel" and claimed "thousands of our cadres," a view held by another senior officer, who described them as "extremely destructive."

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Yes, by 1968-1969 the South Vietnamese had pretty much neutralized any guerrilla activity. Phoenix was 90% just a neighborhood watch program. You see something, you say something. :marseyshrug: Anyone who comes to it saying it's an "assassination program", I can't take seriously.

Phoenix and associated efforts, according to a senior North Vietnamese officer, were "devious and cruel"

According to an American officer they had index cards for people who were complained about. If multiple people said you were a commie they would send a cop to interrogate you.

PRUs

Their role in Phoenix was to snatch important bad guys from behind enemy lines. The ones who you couldn't just walk up and arrest. This is like 10%. Pretend it's an MMO quest.

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All these claims source?

Pulled out of redactor's dad's army regiment's butt

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My daddy was in 'nam and I was alive during Cold War so I know more

:#laugh:

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