Is it okay to have a business lunch with a woman? Absolutely not

Just to get it out of the way, he probably was trying to tap that. This was recommended to a lot of people's feed so there are accusations of "not a real lawyer" flying around that I'm not going to bother posting.

OP:

We have a new undergrad intern (a young woman, perhaps 19 years old), and I thought I'd take her to lunch to welcome her and answer questions about the work. Simple, right? Apparently, taking a female intern out to lunch is now a high-risk situation requiring oversight.

When we got back, it was suggested in the future that I invited other attorneys and avoided going to lunch one-on-one with female interns.

Lesson learned, and in hindsight I get where the firm is coming from. I still think it's a bit of an overreaction, though. I've gotten mixed responses when I've told people this. I'm curious what the subreddit thinks

His darning follow up post where he admits to having something in common with her and actually talked to her.

[–]TurnDownTheRadioJerk[S] -47 points 3 days ago

So here's more: I'm a 24 year old first year and the school she's going to is the same school I went to for undergrad, and she even has some of the same professors I had. We got talking and I asked her to lunch. No, I don't assign her work, but we seem to get along. Yes, there are other interns, but I haven't really had to talk to them yet

Responses to the follow up:

That sounds a little better than I initially imagined, given your ages are pretty close and the power dynamics aren't super crazy off (I'm assuming you don't have much influence at your firm). But your follow-up also makes it sound more like you are in fact trying to hit on her (or at least become her friend), and your firm gave you good advice. You shouldn't be doing anything that looks like you might be looking for a romantic relationship with anyone subordinate to you

Yea OP is totally hitting on her he wouldnt have done this for a dude I'm guessing.

That is pure speculation on your part, is really hard to imagine forming connections and mentorship in a professional field without ulterior motives. It seems reasonable to plausible to me I have gone to lunch with both male and female colleagues.

Dude… that's a crush let's be real, and you were testing the waters.

There's nothing mentor-ly about this. You were trying to get to know her in a personal capacity 😭

Why did this get so downkongd?

Because the world of genuine courteous courtship has gone entirely to the wayside and in its stead is this hyper-sensitive environment. All of this whilst people complain that they can't meet others organically anymore.

He's a young man and shes a young woman. If he is courteous and respectful in his proceeding with her and he doesn't have power over her directly or otherwise in the firm, I don't see the issue. Statistically, the workplace used to be a great place to meet your spouse.

Young man and a younger** woman. She's a teenager AND an intern. He is an adult who can drink and her mentor at a law firm trying to isolate her. He can treat all the interns or a few more so they arent alone.

There is nothing improper, legally or ethically, about a 24 year old and a 19 year old dating

Got ourselves a over here.

Other Responses:

More context is needed. Are there more interns than just her? Are you working closely with her? If you were her direct supervisor or somebody formally assigning her work, and she was the only intern, I don't think it would necessarily be weird. If you were some random associate who just showed up and was like, "Yo, wanna grab lunch", and didn't invite any of the male interns in the same room, I could see how that might not have the best appearance

I think he left them out on purpose. He didn't want to look like a creep

Two comments in we have him being called a creep. Doesn't appear to be a lawyer and posts in a really odd mix of subreddits including /r/aupairs.

Barely a crumb of context which might be explanatory in itself.

Is this the only intern you've ever taken out? If so, why this sudden exception?

Is she the only intern? If not, why exactly did you choose her and her alone?

Do you work more closely with her than anyone else? Most attorneys work more closely with paralegals, so why her and not them?

[–]PoundTown68 -35 points 3 days ago

That's a lot of useless questions. In a sane world, two consenting adults can go to lunch without concern. Two consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want together if we're being honest. This is exactly why feminists should be ignored. We've allowed them to create a culture of fear, where everyone is tiptoes around unnecessary regulation that benefit nobody….except for 40 year old feminists, jealous that they're no longer sexually attractive, who want to force everyone else to be unhappy with them. Misery loves company.

Darn, found the incel

$100 this guy sexually harasses people on the daily

Yeah, I mean, look alive brother. Avoiding the appearance of a questionable situation is very easy if you have situational awareness.

Was it actually questionable? That's not the right question and doesn't matter (unless it got weird). Protect yourself and the firm. Heck, the vast majority of lunches I went to as an intern or otherwise young firm employee were with multiple people, now that I think about it.

This is crazy. Taking someone out to a business lunch in a public place is not out of bounds or even close.

Why was this intern chosen for a solo business lunch with an older male attorney? I'm not saying OP had any untoward intentions, but let's not pretend the optics don't raise valid concerns.

Also, though, based on the follow up, op definitely does have untoward intentions

The optics of it are not great. Put yourself in the shoes of a supervising partner. Perhaps his 28 years old associate has no bad intention when he asks the 19 year old intern to lunch. Perhaps the 28 year old intern has romantic intentions. Partner has no idea. Does the 19 year old intern know your intentions. Did you take any male interns to lunch. If there is no romantic intention perhaps bring along another associate (perhaps female) and more than one intern or staffer.

Yeah he has to think what the firm partners would think if this 30 year old associate took the 19 year old to lunch. It's a bad look when a 34 year old associate is doing that with an 18 year old intern. The 17 year old intern doesn't know she can decline the lunch invite from the 38 year old.

When I was a 19 year old college student, I invited a visiting professor to lunch to discuss their career. I thought thats what we were supposed to do "networking" and all, build a rapport. The lunch was 100% professional the entire time. No drinking. I paid for myself. All day time hours in public. Afterwards i was invited into the deans office and told that my behavior was inappropriate and unprofessional and that I needed to learn my place and not be so forward. When I was ultimately asked to leave the school (we aren't expelling you, we want to encourage you to go to a place better fitted for you) they cited my inappropriate relationships with visiting professors as one of the reasons.

It was humiliating.

15 years later that school got sued into the ground for 30 decades of sexual abuse against minors.

(am woman)

Talk about getting absolutely on.

I think they are trying to help you out.

I went to not-lunch with a support staff ... we were both new to the org, and she accused me of being a predator. And then coworkers hacked my email and spread it around the community. It was too late by the time we established that she was lying, for my email inbox was everywhere and the firm decided I had to leave before I could figure it out.

You need to be extraordinarily careful.

I found one of the few dissenting voices that wasn't downkongd into oblivion.

I strongly disagree with this take. Be professional about it. Make sure it's a public place, but refusing to take women to lunch in a professional environment is Mike Pence culture crap that prevents women from having the same opportunities as men.

IMO, a work culture that discourages men from meeting 1 on 1 with women is a massive red flag and usually the #1 sign that the employer has fostered an anti-woman environment.

There is a difference between "men and women can't have lunch together" and "attorney shouldn't take young intern of the opposite s*x to lunch alone". The power imbalance inherent in the latter certainly has a higher chance of producing a bad situation, from either direction (attorney actually taking advantage, or intern falsely claiming they did).

Keeping that sort of thing as a small group activity avoids all the possible issues.

Muh power imbalance.

You're a lawyer and don't understand professional conduct or ethics?

OP about to be disbarred.

Why is no one talking about the 19 year old intern's perspective. That's what matters here. And that's what the others at the firm are focused on, not the intentions of the OP.

Possibly the most incorrect response in the whole thread.