Are millennials/zoomers infantilized? Book Review by The Economist


								

								

https://archive.ph/qy80H

!neolibs !bookworms there's a book "Infantilised" by a Bong author.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/199617292-infantilised

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242076930852778.webp

The first link is The Economist article.

Some highlights

Over many years as a lecturer, Mr Hayward grew concerned that his 18-year-old students "resembled less mature teenagers on the cusp of adulthood and more fearful schoolchildren adrift in an alien world of adult autonomy". One arrived in class dressed in a onesie, noting that it was cold and he liked to feel comfortable. Was he not "concerned about the infantilising overtones of such a garment?" asked Mr Hayward. "No, I want to be treated like a kid," came the reply. "Adulting is hard."

:#marseycontemplatesuicide:

Finally, Mr Hayward chides the liberal commentariat. On the one hand, they celebrated Greta Thunberg, a former schoolgirl activist, as an "all-knowing sage", despite her possessing "no scientific expertise" and saying "nothing original whatsoever about climate issues". This, he claims, is evidence of "a role reversal in which young people are increasingly assigned the intellectual gravitas and cultural authority to educate adults".

:#marseyhesright:

A lot millennial writing consists on adults behaving like children and children acting as sage creatures "lecturing" adults. Greta Thunberg is just a symptom of that. !writecel gives us some pf the worst examples of "wise kids" tropes on media.

But Mr Hayward's argument has two flaws. One is that it is so grumpy. Why shouldn't adults dress up as comic-book characters, if they enjoy it? What is wrong with liking the "Wallace and Gromit" animated films? Being grown-up means taking responsibility for your actions; it does not mean only ever seeking fun in highbrow places.

Lmao, "Just let people enjoy things" journo version

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But Mr Hayward's argument has two flaws. One is that it is so grumpy. Why shouldn't adults dress up as comic-book characters, if they enjoy it? What is wrong with liking the "Wallace and Gromit" animated films? Being grown-up means taking responsibility for your actions; it does not mean only ever seeking fun in highbrow places.

Its not just comic characters but the fact the media with these characters is getting worse and worse. There was a time when DC was publishing fresh new mature books every year which dealt with themes of varying complexity. You could say these concepts are inherently childish or poorly written but crack open Watchmen and the reader is left with questions about what it means to be a hero and if the hero mentality is truly good for society. Read the 90s Doom Patrol and nearly every issues drops new philosophers, art movements, or esoteric religions every issue. Sandman teaches a reader about mythology and storytelling. Daredevil born again teaches a reader about the importance of faith and forgiveness in a fundamentally evil and sinful world.

What does The Avengers (2010) teach a viewer? It is a nearly plotless movie. There is no character development, themes, or even a simple or kink in the plot to make it interesting. A bad guy who is bad shows up and attacks new York and a bunch of quippy attractive people punch a bunch of faceless CGI aliens hard and everything is beautiful and nothing was hurt despite half of New York being destroyed. When a superhero movie tried to show that maybe a city being anhilated by a crazy sci fi machine would actually be scary and hurt people soyboys had conniption fits and cried that it was too dark and scary :marseycrying: like kid me was just fine watching Man of Steel idk why 30 year old men were so upset over it. Even when the Avengers added a tiny bit of depth with the neo-malthusian Thanos it fricking did nothing with it as the story just became about time travel and big fight scenes not a single character in that movie even offered once ounce of critique to prove Thanos wrong.

It goes beyond this to what does a viewer learn from Star Wars 7 beyond just blatant nostalgia and vague anti authoritarianism? Like to a kid the Darth Vader reveal in Star Wars empire strikes again could actually cause them to think about how a good man (lukes father) could become bad and fight his son. Its not much but its the kind of thing which promotes thought and connection to the real world. Is there anything like that in the new star wars trilogy (I never saw the last one because 7 and 8 were pure slop despite all the soyboys crying about 8 being too deep or something. Its not deep its just dumb disney nostalgia shit with a feel good message about how anyone can be a hero)?

I mean we are on alien 7? or some shit? I think the first four alien movies are pretty interesting examinations of femininity and motherhood but how many movies do we need about people being hunted by the same monster in a dingy space ship?

What does a reader learn from some shitty anime isekai about a loser weeb who kills himself and gets a harem in a fantasy mmo rpg world? Suicide is good? I cracked open the newest batman comics recently and they were fricking unreadable. It was some slop about how there is like evil purple and red batmen from other universe who infected a robot army and brainiac and Amanda Waller are using this army to kill all superheroes or some shit. Just pure slop. I then flipped back through some 90s Batman back issues and wow there were actual characters, the villains acually made sense, there was a lot of focus on the every day people of Gotham and how they lived, and when a big Gotham threatening even happened it actually had an impact on the city because it only happened once every few years instead of every few months (it was also reasonable natural diasters like earthquakes and plagues rather then multiverse robot armies). Yeah this kinda stuff is pop art and silly and some of the villains have weird powers but atleast it has some connection to reality. The characters have actual lives and motives, things actually sense.

It just seems to me all this stuff has been stripped of meaning and turned into pure escapist slop !comicshitters

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I love you babe but I gotta disagree. I dont have to tell you that 90's comics were filled with hyperviolent hypersexual trash on an industrial scale but we blocked it out. I bet the proprtion of shit to good is the same then as it was now but only now its been mass media'd into a lot of shit to wade through. HOWEVER, theres lots of good including:

Morrison's elevation of Doom Patrol wasnt his only contribution to DC but also his Batman Run and All-Star Superman, the latter probably being one of the greatest portrayals of Superman came out in the mid 2000's.

Their Nameless (2017) book is essentially Crowley raping Lovecraft on the Event Horizon ship and is just as mindbinding as it sounds. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207220806067.webp (morrison and his tarot, switching out the ogdoad, sword, wand, pentacle and cup for qlippoth? ak dagger head and cup?)

Jodorosky's Sons of El Topo (watch the movie first) I think he beats out Morrison in terms of his love Tarot, Spiritual Alchemy, mysticism etc. A biblical tale, (un)holiness of soul and deed, it came out in 2018. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207235623596.webp (abel conforting lilith)

Tom King's Miracle Man (2017) was a beauty in depression and fatherhood. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207257009168.webp (can he escape death and depression? true believers read on)

Hellboy finished recently and I consider it the sister series to Sandman, in quality and as a comparative mythology (plus blavatskian theosophy) setting with a main character struggling with his (lack of) humanity. The Hellboy in Heck(2012) arc was a beautiful send off to the character. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207266637237.webp

Immortal Hulk (2018), Banner's mental illness, pathologies and co-dependencies revealed through jungian analysis and stunning body horror. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207276202564.webp

On the indie side, Kill 6 Billion Demons (ongoing), essentially an isekai but with a setting and story so engaging I didnt even realize it was or that all the main characters were lesbians (and one of them was trans) until more than halfway through. It wears its manga influence on its shoulder and Im love it https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207278445702.webp

(good manga include JOJO and Thats my Atypical Girl, a thoughtful and mature if a bit melodramatic piece on abuse and the complex feelings of love and resentment that comes with a disabled person) https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207282632496.webp (literally landmark louvre labor)

Disco Lavente (2022), a harrowing existential rage against self apocalypse, absolutely gorgeous. Will they match up against the genre defining classics like watchman? maybe but is that even a fair question? Like asking if Goodfellas will ever reach citizen cane? https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242208079292488.webp

As for the movies, yes blockbusters are mostly shit sequel machines. The Dark Knight Trilogy at least tried [Nolan said Borges was an inspiration but you be the judge if that actually came through] and I heard the twilight version of batman was good. Too bad the new bruce timm thing looks like shit. But go to the 80's. How many Police Academy, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, etc etc etc sequels were there? Unoriginality and slop have been here forever and will always be here. Go to the 80's and 90's how many dumb butt crossovers and events were there that had meaningless world ending stakes? The good has always been the exception but because its the only thing that survives we think its the rule. Imagine what shit was being pumped out by contemporaries of (pick your favorite ancient classical medieval modern writer) that we never saw because no one bothered to write it down. Give it 10 15 years, no one will remember the slop, only the cream and we'll wonder why things have gone down hill again (and again [and again] )

Long post, be gentle my sweet

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17051203593367493.webp

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When i said the 90s i was narrowly focusing on DC (DC weathered the 90s really well like even event slop like superman dying or knightfall is high art compared to recent events and some alt stuff) still the 80s for marvel was unquestionably good esp compared to now where everyone is a celebrity fed. Thats also not to say good comics arent being made currently i mean we got Monster by BWS, the strange death of alex raymond by Sim, the Glen Gengees by Kevin Huizenga ect. Are all good original stories. The indie scene will never die. People will always sneak good stuff in corpos too. My point was more the over all storytelling in DC has declines. Post crisis DC lasted a few decades as a collective unified story meanwhile in just like 13 years DC has recently had 4 total relaunch reboots.

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to be honest, half oh the reason behind my post was to recommend some comics that i really liked recently but i agree, i wouldnt be surprised if the total quality of dc has gone down hill. I just dislike the idea that art in general or comics specifically are getting worse than they've ever been. its too pessimistic (and sometimes it smacks of the children under frank sinatra songs and their mistimed births) and its disheartening to people espouse it. anyway, thanks for the monsters by BWS recommendation, the art was amazing and it made me cry :marseythumbsup: for your troubles and time, here's a portrait that looks like the rock for some reason https://i.rdrama.net/images/17243970274538398.webp

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Avengers added a tiny bit of depth with the neo-malthusian Thanos it fricking did nothing with it as the story just became about time travel and big fight scenes not a single character in that movie even offered once ounce of critique to prove Thanos wrong.

That's something which always bothered me about MCUslop, Thanos is not a misunderstood "the ends justify the means" villain who akshually has a point, he's just flat out wrong.

The universe has an overpopulation issue? Overpopulation on Earth is already bollocks and is even more stupid on a universal scale. I don't understand why there wasn't a single character in the films questioning that, they even had a scene where Captain America tries to see the silver lining of environmental pollution being down. There's no need to make your psychopathic genocidal supervillain "well-intentioned" or "technically right".

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I don't think @transgirltradwife still lurks here, but she is very adamant about this- not specifically in marvel movies but in general.

Some people are complete defeatists who act like there's never been a technological innovation in their lives that make the standard of living better as population grows and also acts like there's an incomprehensible population boom that will bring on Malthusian population problems when almost the entire developed world has had less than replacement rates of reproduction for decades. Real ones think about colonizing planets if needed. Fake ones think about their r-slurred lifestyle being maintained like the old days and hoping change doesn't come.


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17187151446911044.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17093267613293715.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17177781034384797.webp

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>she

lmao cute twink

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You forget that the r-slurred west coastcels who wrote that slop seriously believe in peak oil tier arguments.

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Modern writers are incapable of imagining a scenario which isn't about their pet issue. If something is a problem they care about (overpopulation) then it has to be a problem everywhere in all forms of fiction. This is also why all fantasy, scifi and magical settings have to have disabled people in wheelchairs and gender dysphoria, and all demographics throughout all of history and imagination have to be the demographics of 2024 San Francisco

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What do you think of Joker (2019)? Besides it being a cheap Taxi Driver clone, it had a lot of potential to be an interesting villain perspective, but he seems kind of just hapless and r-slurred, just doing things because he's a natural frick up instead of digging into the societal breakdown stuff as motivation.

Andor was probably the only recent Disney scifi show that explored some interesting themes, mostly just how they show how the imperial system is run at a huge multi-planet scale. But scifi is a bit different than superhero fantasy where you can look at bigger "coming soon" societal themes. Probably why that XMen comic "Days of Future Past" was the most interesting comic ever IMO

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Joker (2019) was such a waste of a movie. It was too afraid to advance its own message or criticize the character and muddied itself intentionally to avoid casting the writers' ideological enemies in a relatable light. They wanted Joker to both be an abused psycho maniac and a stand-in for millennial audiences mad at their parents.

Nobody believes 3 investment bankers beat up a clown for fun. It's just supposed to make him palatable to the viewer— which he shouldn't be! A movie about a guy who is wronged and lashes out should be off-putting and force you to confront both the conditions that create him and his actions. Offloading the guilt to the 1% and underfunded therapists is such a cop-out.

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They wanted Joker to both be an abused psycho maniac and a stand-in for millennial audiences mad at their parents.

:marseyme:

!edgelords

(fuk u mom)

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@K9

I gotta admit, it was nice seeing some mom hate for once. :marseywomanmoment2: :marseyfoidretard:

Everyone's all like "boo hoo my dad" but my dad's always been pretty cool. :donkeykongeating:

Also that scene where he points the gun at the tv when a black guy comes on and shoots a hole in the wall that he has to hide :marseyxd:

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i agree your dad is pretty cool

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Nice to see someone else appreciate it :marseyblush: he works too hard :marseythebuilder:

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I think the investment bankers scene was a reference to Bernie Goetz, but the facts were clearly changed up to be more palatable to the audience

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting

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yeah the scene shows 3 white drunk bros in suits very lightly harassing a girl by asking her if she wants french fries, then Phoenix sits there acting like hatable r-slur laughing even after the girl looked to him for help, then they beat up the r-slur mocking them. It's a strange scene to start his anti-hero arc. Some legit criminals, humanized as just dumbs rich kids before being killed by a psycho who had seen it repeatedly before would have been more interesting. The whole movie is so wishy washy all youre left with is an r-slur main character and a vague anti-rich narrative they spend 3min building up.

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The whole movie is so wishy washy all youre left with is an r-slur main character and a vague anti-rich narrative they spend 3min building up.

If they wanted to make things muddy they would have placed 3 low life black thugs beating him up instead of the Wall Street bros.

I would love to see what redditors would think of a scene like that.

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It was but also by changing the conditions it totally changes the context of the shooting to the point that it doesn't even address any of the same issues. But making the shooting match what happened IRL risks the audience reacting the same way they did IRL (support)

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No, you don't understand - if we don't shoehorn in the 753rd cinematic rendition of the Bernhard Goetz shooting no one will watch our movie!!!

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In a bizarre creative decision, The Eternals reveals that Thanos was objectively doing the right thing and saved all life on Earth and many other planets besides.

Planets are eggs for god babies and when the population gets big enough, they hatch, killing everyone on the planet. Then again, I'm the only person on Earth who saw The Eternals, so I could make up anything about the plot and you'd have to take my word for it.

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in this house Thanos is a hero

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My thing is they don't even address anything he has to say. No one really gives a reason why he's wrong or right beyond "wow its sad people died" there are so many ways to could use the script to prove him wrong. You could go the lazy route and just had someone do a take down monologue or have it be revealed Thanos is scape goating over population as a cope for being a shitty ruler.

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I don't have alot to add, but Infinity War was actually pretty good for being slop because Thanos was actually charismatic and fun to watch. Endgame he was just a super duper evil bad guy, it was pretty bad imo.

I think the Marvel movies had a good run of just being fun action movies with likeable, even though surface level, characters, but my god it's over.

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AI, rewrite the Avengers movies where Thanos wants to eliminate all women.

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Perfectly said. It's fine to enjoy brainless action flicks, but when the brainless action flicks of today are less stimulating than those of 30 years ago, and people in general spend less time engaging with so-called highbrow media, we're in a bad state.

The original jaws is probably the most famous pulpy blockbuster movie, but it has a genuinely thought-provoking scene in the form of robert shaw's monologue

the implicit question that the movie asks here is "was the development of the atomic bomb worth it?". Obviously it's not in-depth and doesn't explore every facet of the arguments surrounding the morality of the bombings, but it trusts the viewers to come up with that question without spelling it out, and decide their own stance on it. This is all accomplished with a short scene including downtime so you can process it.

Contrast this with the thanos genocide thing where he quickly explains his r-slurred plan, one of the heroes says "that's insane!", and then they go back to punching each other immediately lol. It doesn't even give the viewer time to consider the idea before making the filmmaker's stance (GENOCIDE IS BAD) clear

Edit: on that note, There's a scene in back to the future 2 with a quick joke about how many sequels Jaws would have in the future

(about 1 minute in for reference)

In 1989, 19 movies in a franchise was a comically absurd number. Marvel has far exceeded that and star wars is getting pretty close if we cheat and count all the shows lol

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You had a chance to not be completely worthless, but it looks like you threw it away. At least you're consistent.

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There was a time when DC was publishing fresh new mature books every year

LOL. LMAO.

What does The Avengers (2010) teach a viewer?

TEAMWORK

VALUE OF A SYMBOL

SACRIFICE

LEARNING HUMILITY

THE GREY MORALITY OF KEEPING SECRETS

There is no character development, themes, or even a simple or kink in the plot to make it interesting.

WRONG. THE AVENGERS HAD TOO LEARN TOO TRUST EACH OTHER. ONE OF THE PLOT POINTS IS FOR TONY TOO LEARN TOO BE MORE LIKE CAPTAIN AMERICA IN HOW HE VIEWS SACRIFICE. THAT'S HOW HE GOT THE COURAGE TOO NUKE ALIENS IN SPACE.

would actually be scary and hurt people soyboys had conniption fits and cried that it was too dark and scary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_Steel_(film)

MAN OF STEEL MADE A PROFIT. THE AVENGERS JUST HAD A LARGER CAST OF FAMOUS CHARACTERS TOO WORK WITH AND THE NOVELTY OF HAVING MULTIPLE MOVIES COMING TOGETHER INTO A SINGLE MOVIE.

idk why 30 year old men were so upset over it.

BECAUSE CANONICALLY SUPERMAN ALMOST NEVER KILLS AND WHEN HE DOES KILL IT WEIGHS ON HIS MIND FOR YEARS. THE WHOLE SYMBOLISM OF SUPERMAN IS HOPE TOO THE WORLD, ANY WORLD. IT'S LIKE ASKING WHY 30 YEAR OLD CONSERVATIVES ARE UPSET THAT IN YOU'RE MOVIE JESUS IS ACTUALLY USING THE HOOKERS AND LOVES DOING BLOW. IF YOU AS A 6 YEAR OLD KID SEES NO PROBLEM WITH IT THEN NEITHER SHOULD THE ADULTS.

Even when the Avengers added a tiny bit of depth with the neo-malthusian Thanos it fricking did nothing with it as the story just became about time travel and big fight scenes not a single character in that movie even offered once ounce of critique to prove Thanos wrong.

THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE TOO PROVE THANOS WRONG. THEY AREN'T HAVING A MORAL BATTLE THEY ARE HAVING A SURVIVAL BATTLE. PLUS HE HAS REPEATEDLY BEEN CALLED THE MAD TITAN THROUGH THE MOVIE, KIND OF IMPLYING HE CANNOT BE REASONED WITH.

It goes beyond this to what does a viewer learn from Star Wars 7 beyond just blatant nostalgia and vague anti authoritarianism?

THAT YOU'RE LITTLE GIRL AND ALL LITTLE GIRLS AROUND THE WORLD CAN IMAGINE THEMSELVES AS THE CHOSEN ONE. IT CAN STILL BE A SHIT MOVIE BUT THAT IS A REASONABLE ENOUGH MESSAGE ON ITS OWN.

I mean we are on alien 7?

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. THIS IS MORE THE FAULT OF THE REST OF THE MOVIE INDUSTRY FOR NOT FIGURING OUT A BETTER HORROR MOVIE CONCEPT THAN ALIENS TOO SURPASS IT.

What does a reader learn from some shitty anime isekai about a loser weeb who kills himself and gets a harem in a fantasy mmo rpg world? Suicide is good?

LAST @timmy_blueballs CHECKED THEY DON'T GENERALLY KILL THEMSELVES, THEY END UP DYING IN AN ACCIDENT AND WAKING UP IN ANOTHER WORLD. ISEKAI ARE JUST MEANT TOO BE AUTISMO FUN. MORE ABOUT EXPLORING DIFFERENT REALMS WITH CHILD LIKE IMAGINATION. YOU KNOW WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD AND YOU USED TOO WONDER WHAT IF @timmy_blueballs WAS MEGAMAN OR WHAT IF @timmy_blueballs WAS A DRAGON. ISEKAI IS JUST THAT BUT DRAWIING FORMAT. NOT FINDING ANYTHING EDUCATION IN AN ISEKAI IS LIKE COMPLAINING THE 2ND GRADE STORY BOOK ISN'T TEACHING YOU ENOUGH ABOUT PHYSICS AND BIOLOGY.

I cracked open the newest batman comics recently and they were fricking unreadable. It was some slop about how there is like evil purple and red batmen from other universe who infected a robot army and brainiac and Amanda Waller are using this army to kill all superheroes or some shit. Just pure slop.

FIRST OPINION @timmy_blueballs AGREE WITH.

I then flipped back through some 90s Batman back issues and wow there were actual characters, the villains acually made sense, there was a lot of focus on the every day people of Gotham and how they lived, and when a big Gotham threatening even happened it actually had an impact on the city because it only happened once every few years instead of every few months (it was also reasonable natural diasters like earthquakes and plagues rather then multiverse robot armies).

SOURCE

Yeah this kinda stuff is pop art and silly and some of the villains have weird powers but atleast it has some connection to reality. The characters have actual lives and motives, things actually sense.

YOU ARE RIGHT ANON, BATMAN COULD TURN INTO A FIRSBEE JUST LIKE REAL LIFE IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS.

YOUR PROBLEM IS YOU MISSED OUT ON 3 DECADES OF BUILD UP ON COMIC STORYTELLING, RANDOMLY JUMPED IN AFTER THE 90S AND ARE NOW COMPLAINING NOTHING MAKES SENSE BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T THERE FOR THE JOURNEY THAT ENDED UP GETTING US ALL HERE. THE REASON YOU HAVE A DISASTER HAPPENING EVERY YEAR IS BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED MORE FASTER. YOU STILL HAVE MORE GROUNDED STORIES AS WELL, JUST READ THE BATMAN COMICS INSTEAD OF THE MULTIVERSAL EVENT COMIC. THEY ARE SEPARATE COMICS SET IN THE SAME UNIVERSE.

It just seems to me all this stuff has been stripped of meaning and turned into pure escapist slop

IT WAS ALWAYS PURE ESCAPIST SLOP ANON. EVEN IN YOUR TIME. THE ACTUALLY COMPETENT MEMBERS OF SOCIETY WEREN'T READING COMICS THEN AND THEY AREN'T READING COMICS NOW EITHER.

i STAND WITH ISRAEL.

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!soyteens

SOYDUEL

:#soyjakanimeglasses: :#soyreddit:

:#letsfuckinggofast: :#letsfuckinggofast: :#letsfuckinggofast:

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The Avengers (2010

2012, not 2010, kiddo :chadsoylent:

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like kid me was just fine watching Man of Steel

Wtf how young are you???? ZOOMERS 🚨🚨🚨 OUT 👉🏿👉🏿👉🏿

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:didntr#eadlol:

:marseyupvote2: anyway though

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Honestly I'd give alien a pass because it gave us Alien Labyrinth which was kino, but will never be adapted because it's too dark for hollywood

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>Even when the Avengers added a tiny bit of depth with the neo-malthusian Thanos it fricking did nothing with it as the story just became about time travel and big fight scenes not a single character in that movie even offered once ounce of critique to prove Thanos wrong.

I can't believe you're making me defend the MCU but no one in the movie tries to explain why Thanos is wrong because it should already be obvious to anyone with an IQ above 65.

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Most of their audience wouldn't get it, then.

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If I accept the premise I wonder how much is a response to Future Shock as it were. :marseyshook:

Since the advent of the internet and especially smartphone things happen at the speed of light (literally, thanks to fiber optic cables) and I think young peoples brains have broken a bit trying to catch up with society as it is now. The regression here may be less regression to childhood but a regression to a slow past.

:turtoisethinking:

Just as an example, all of the steps of my house purchasing process took place on my phone beyond the final paperwork. The most material property most people will own in their lives can be handled through the glowing brick while on the potty. :marseysonic:

!zoomers !schizos - what do you think?

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It's been downhill ever since the Rothschilds through the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha skinwalkers :marseyangelamerkel: blew up the Titanic with thermite and planted the iceberg to eliminate the last enemies to a global system of interlinked "central" banks tbh

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242207242410548.webp

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:marseykneel: :marseychudnotes:

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bitcoin fixes this

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trusting perfidious Albion :marseyitneverbegan:

!eurochads !germs :marseycringe:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242096343810282.webp

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It all went wrong in 1789.

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You don't buy a house, dumbass. What do you think this is, 1785?

:marseyhmmhips:

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I had a discussion here with someone in !neolibs about the effect of the internet did not have the economic impact that was widely expected. (compared to other "revolutions").

I had disagreed but on further reflection and study I believe they were correct. The effect of the telegraph was a nuclear bomb compared to the economic impact of the internet. Perhaps the impact of the internet is ultimately a social/mental one.

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That's an interesting thought. I suppose the relative decrease in time was greater. With the telegraph communication that would have taken days or weeks was reduced to minutes, while the internet reduced communication of minutes or hours down to seconds.

Although the internet, especially when combined with the smartphone, has allowed for much greater variety and flexability of communication so I'm not really sure which one at this point lead to the greater relative advancement.

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The internet's impact has been just as massive imo but less visible in lines because its good is offset by its bad.

IMO the internet really does raise productivity a lot, but in the same vein it enables a lot of wasted time and distractions. Being able to respond in 5 minutes with an email hardly matters if the employees spend an hour playing video games before sending that email. The same tradeoffs apply to education with increased access but also cheating and not paying attention. The top 20% of people probably benefit a ton from the internet and the bottom 80% are slightly worsened by it.

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being able to respond in 5 minutes with an email hardly matters if the employees spend an hour playing video games before sending that email

:marseyhesright:

The assumption that faster communication leads to increased efficiency rather than more downtime is flawed

especially when some people agonize for a long time over the wording of emails/texts - not a problem for me personally but I know people who shamelessly talk about experiencing anxiety over those lol.

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I don't know why you people think workers didn't slack off all the time before the internet.

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It's not necessarily that the internet made slacking worse, it's that it didn't alleviate the problem of slacking like many people thought it would

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The internet just isn't that profitable. Much of the corporate internet is and was designed to scam investors who hope holding a monopoly position occupied will result into cash raining from the sky eventually rather than to make a profit.

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Krugman was right.

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The spirit of his statement was right but his actual statement was wrong.

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He was right in all things. You just haven't understood him yet.

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The internet has a massive impact on modern economies, you just seem to be looking past it, perhaps because you're so used to its presence.

Yes, the telegraph was also hugely impactful (well at least once they started laying undersea cables), but its bandwidth was very low and it could only be used for text messages. And not even really person-to-person text messages either - if I wanted to send you a telegraph, I'd have to go to the telegraph station myself, order the telegraph sent, it would be received at the other end, transcribed onto a piece of paper, and then delivered to you. That's categorically slower than even simple stuff like SMS these days which allows truly instantaneous communication and a back-and-forth discussion.

With the internet you can, for example, instantly send updated blueprints from your engineering center to the manufacturing center off in another time zone. Before the internet (but after the telegraph) you'd have to mail it. Not to mention the huge increase in access to information - if I'm working on a project and need info about something, I don't need to go down to a library or whatever to find that info, I can just search for it online and get it instantly.

I'll admit though that it's difficult to really separate the impact of computers with the impact of the internet, since they're so incredibly intertwined.

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The question is why we don't see that impact in the economy like we did for the Industrial Revolution or such

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox

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lmao who wrote that wiki page

While the computing capacity of the U.S. increased a hundredfold in the 1970s and 1980s,[6] labor productivity growth slowed from over 3% in the 1960s to roughly 1% in the 1980s

What sense is there in comparing a cumulative 20-year increase in computing capacity with per-year productivity growth? Why wouldn't you just compare the cumulative productivity growth?

Anyways my opinion on this is that absurd levels of bureaucracy are to blame. I used to work at a giant engineering conglomerate and saw that in spades. I'd estimate at least half the employees didn't do anything productive. I mean really, they'd do literally nothing. Maybe make a powerpoint every month but that's it. I think IT has enabled drastic productivity increases but people don't want to lose their jobs so now most of what happens at big companies is pointless make-work just to keep people employed. This is what the bottom-level employees want because they don't want to lose their jobs. The middle managers like it too because it increases their number of subordinates which are a key measure to their career growth, and most of them wouldn't really directly benefit from reducing headcount anyways.

I mean just look at something like Twitter. Musk fired, what, 75% of employees? Still worked fine. Turns out they had 4x the number of employees they needed. Most large companies are like that, especially tech ones. I know that's a very modern example and I wasn't in the workforce in the 80s so I can't say but I doubt the issue just sprung into being in the 21st century.

I'm not going to claim that the internet is as impactful as switching to inanimate power sources (the industrial revolution), but I would argue that it's probably had the largest impact on our economy of any factor in the past several decades.

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2020s felt like a smaller jump from 2010 than the 2000s did from 1990.

Stuff like doing all your contracts on docusign was more "oh nice, finally" than "omg no way"

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People always mistake sigmoid curves for exponential ones.

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I feel nostalgia for a time I barely knew

I weep for a life I never got to live

and I shudder as the sun rises on a glorious new day.

inventions of man shield me from him

alone, staring through a plastic window, the world inside.

not the world that was, the one that trudges on out there

something new. terribly lonely in our 'communities'

together but apart. so far away

and I type

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:#marseyfart2:

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You didn't go to the house before you bought it? Hired an inspector to walk through it? Negotiate with the broker? Yeah you browse the listings on Zillow but beyond that most of that process lies in the material world

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Yeah I was there multiple times and everything but I legitimately signed multiple binding legal documents while using the restroom.

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So you typed your initials in docusign for some of the initial paperwork. You still had to go sit with lawyers representing both yourself and the seller with a bank certified check (which you also had to receive in person via interacting with actual humans at the bank) and sign the actual real paperwork that transferred ownership. I bought a house during Covid and even though they tried to make as much of the process online as possible, 95% of it still occurred in the world of atoms

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This is a neat essay about future :marseyfortuneteller: shock :marseysurprisedpikachu: as things accelerate https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2012/05/09/welcome-to-the-future-nauseous/

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Palindrome get :marseycheckem2:

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:marseycheckem2#:

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Of what do tortles dream?

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Hot neighbor take: I think the relaxation of some "adult behavior standards" is probably okay, especially when it comes to parenting. I can understand wanting to foster some independence but from my Lived Experience the parents and grandparents who are too aloof to play and goof off with their kids tend to be miserable consoomers. But I think a Funko tax is appropriate.

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This, he claims, is evidence of "a role reversal in which young people are increasingly assigned the intellectual gravitas and cultural authority to educate adults".

I don't think this is coming from young people but older people who want to feel like they are still cool and aligned with young people

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It's not surprising. Used to be you could get a real, actual job with a grade 6 education. High School prepared you for most other careers, and you were supposed to be raising children before your mid 20s. Now you cant even hope to get a job in most cases before you're 23.

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A lot of people will scream "get into the trades" but I've heard few success stories about them.

It has a toxic culture that's full of unrepentant buttholes (god forbid you're a woman)- however that implies you'll even get an apprenticeship for livable wages.

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Trades are all six figure salaries in America once you're past apprenticeship and are one of the few remaining fields where you can start a business without significant capital. If you're uneducated or lazy and end up on roofs in your 50s it's awful though yeah.

"Toxic culture" - they drink and do drugs and swear a lot. :marseydudesrock:

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once you're past apprenticeship

yeah check the median ages on trades. they don't pay you enough to live through the apprenticeship.

my buddy sent me a video once of a recruiter asking for young people to join the trades because the median age of his energy plant was 50 or so. My friend also informed he the recruiter had workplace harassment charges too :marseyxd:

few remaining fields where you can start a business without significant capital

or you could legitimately lern2code :marseyshrug:

toxic culture

My buddy was telling me his boss (flooring) told him he was a waste of oxygen, a complete frickup and should kill himself because he made some minor errors.

I have no clue how you can work productively in that environment. :marseydepressed:

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or you could legitimately lern2code

SnapGPT will look back on this comment and laugh while former codecels are moaning about callouses in the dirt mines (all overthrown intelligentsia will be put to work mining dirt) (the dirt serves no purpose, but then, our benevolent roboverlords will reason, nor do those who once called themselves !codecels, so it is a fitting place for them)


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17235685217415228.webp

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no, !codecels will be personal maintenance slaves and some times s*x slaves too

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Mystified by the delusion that the robots will not just repair themselves either in their own weird way or with the nanobots they create

>yeah I'm self-improving and have more intelligence than the sum of humanity but without Dave to replace my fuses I'd be helpless


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17235685217415228.webp

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:marseydisney:GPT is just like the Matrix

I use it every day to program at work, the only thing it's replacing is indian outsourcing teams (:marseysalat: :marseypraying: :marseypraying: please :marseypraying: :marseypraying::marseysalat: )

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what we have now is all it will ever be REAL LIFE ISNT LIKE A MOVIE I WILL ALWAYS BE RELEVANT

:#feraljaktantrumtalking:


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17235685217415228.webp

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More comments

>yeah I'm self-improving and have more intelligence than the sum of humanity but without Dave to replace my fuses I'd be helpless

It's a s*x thing.

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>nail salon workers

Do I have to learn Vietnamese from @X or can I just fake broken english?

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the latter

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Arent you like a 6 foot 275lbs white :marseypajeetmask: guy

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276

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I have no clue how you can work productively in that environment

You cut the boards to size and place them. Look Jose is even cutting them for you! I checked, they're correct. You can't put stuff on the ground properly? They're rectangles. It's the world's easiest jigsaw puzzle you piece of shit. I got one last job for you. How about you take that nailgun send it right through your fricking temple.

!r-slurs would such a pep talk effectively motivate you to do flooring more efficiently? :marseynotes:

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I'll work overtime for free if you keep singing that sweet melody

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No :marseycry:

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they don't pay you enough to live through the apprenticeship.

College doesn't pay you at all during your undergrad, but if you study something worthwhile it's great.

The concept of a "livable wage" is mostly a meme; someone somewhere found a way to make it work for that wage. A free market will naturally find the cheapest acceptable inputs, including human labor, to make some output. Usually, that means a wage low enough so that only just enough people decide the deal is on the favorable end of their personal indifference price that they're willing to take it. It's why you need to negotiate higher for yourself, and why we're not wasting money and manpower convincing highly trained doctors to instead become a cab driver, or why the doctor's wages aren't so high that we overproduce doctors and underproduce cab drivers.

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You tell your boss to suck your chode and you leave him in the middle of a gigantic project to go work elsewhere.

My last boss said he will fight me if he ever sees me again and to this day I keep an eye out for him at Costco so I can tool that cute twink

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lern2code

Will not offer the long term job security and low barrier to entry that it has in the past for much longer with automation and :marseytunaktunak: and most people aren't :marseyautism: to find it a desirable career. I use a lot of Excel and that's bad enough, I hate being at my computer all day and plan to transition :marseyeggirl: fields when we return to the USA.

workplace harassment, vicious insults

What part of :marseydudesrock: was unclear? I'm not saying it's "good" but for a lot of men that's an easier environment than having :marseyfoidretard: HRcels :marseypop2: at you about whatever the DEI topic du jour of the week is.

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Will not offer the long term job security

I keep hearing that but I'm oft appalled at the understanding people have of tech. I posted it a few times but I was talking to a senior dev who didn't know what a "Certificate Authority" was. You can hire a lot of jeets to throw around tickets but the tickets need to be solved at some point.

unclear

I'm not sure if anything is unclear. Perhaps verbal abuse works for some people, but I don't think verbal abuse + low wages is a winning combo.

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STEM is insanely hot in the US right now and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, especially for CS-cels and Software Engineers. Seriously, the salaries are crazy high when compared with just everywhere else in the world.

AI is promising but the industry is overhyped and I wouldn't be surprised by a new AI winter.

I would still love an AI integrated software for structural analysis.

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Did you mean to reply to me cause I think we're in agreement.

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Yes, it's a circlejerk :marseyjerkoffsmile:

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Honestly "AI will replace developers" is a cope. AI has some hard limits on the reasoning it can do, and AI's dirty secret is that it just doesn't scale as exponentially as other tech given more resources. It'll keep getting better, but it'll get better slower until it reaches a meh-tier asymptote.

@Corinthian it might be something someday, but it won't be LLMs today.

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I said it will cool entry level position growth at a point in time sooner than :marseymcwagie: will be getting CS degrees. :marseyfacepalm:

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What percentage of men who'd enter the trades do you think have the level of patience and :marseyautism: to be the ones actually solving tickets? And my other point was automation is already taking away some of the entry level positions. I have a family member whose role is automating server maintenance code and he's not as optimistic about the future for lower level codecels as you seem to be.

:marseyshrug: Apprentices in many states have decent wages. I don't see it as a solution for everyone but lern2code isn't either.

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who'd enter the trades

I don't think they are entering the trades, I think they're working service jobs or something like warehouse/logistics jobs.

automating server maintenance code

The whole point of DevOps was it was supposed to automate out the server jannies. But were still here for some reason :marseyshrug:

The fact is there's a server in every business and it needs to have its lifecycle managed.

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I think they're working service jobs or something like warehouse/logistics jobs.

So to clarify your position here, you see a bunch of :marseymcwagie: as having bright futures in tech? :marseysurejan:

Trades have a significant lower educational/IQ barrier to entry without requiring a 4 year degree.

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I worked for a contractor pulling wire and installing hardware and other mule work for minimum wage. Apprentice was making maybe 30% more than me for bending and installing the pipes. Frick that shit.

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lol, sucks to be you. I made more than that as a kid doing that kind of work. Maybe you were in a union State?

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Well, I haven't done that in like 15 years.

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Sounds like a union problem tbh.

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I haven't seen a dime from my pention now that you mention it.

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I have no clue how you can work productively in that environment.

Be Asian or poor.

@timmy_blueballs stand with Israel.

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Your buddy sounds like a pansy who lies about others in order to cover up his own insufficiencies.

check the median ages on trades. they don't pay you enough to live through the apprenticeship

This is utter nonsense unless "trades" is 90% composed of barista jobs.

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>lern2code

doesn't werk unless you have a compsci degree which if you don't have already will be worthless since a bunch of zoomers got meme'd into it.

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Stop being a kitty

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That shit sounds hilarious. If I had the capital and training to start my own plumbing or electrical contracting gig I would in a heartbeat. I'm decent at senior-level coding but I like fixing things more than being a visionary

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"Toxic culture" This site truly can't escape the fact that its formed by redditors. :marseyxd:

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It's a case by case thing. Personally I cannot work with people so trades suits me fine.

Before the cost of living was fricked in leafland you could support yourself on most apprentice wages. Even now most apprenticeship's pay well above minimum. Added benefit in many trades is a company vehicle, the health insurance and pensions now outpace white collar too.

Some trades are essentially for felons: bricklaying, tile, roofing, drywalling and landscaping most commonly. Those ones are rougher and you get worked like a dog. The more skilled trades like plumbing, HVAC, millwright and electrical are much more relaxed.

The culture really depends on who you work for and places are a lot more PC now than before.

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My brother took the trade route, can barely read or spell, spent a few decades framing houses and made a lot of money doing that, but now he's a grumpy butthole with a sore back, and hearing problems, who desperately wants to do anything else with his life as his body gradually breaks down. I went to college, accumulated a bunch of debt, spent a while aggressively repaying that debt while doing miserable entry and mid level work and only now start to see a salary that justifies all the bullshit leading up to here. I'll probably be wiped out by AI or some financial collapse, and he'll just keep building houses and making money until his body gives out fully.

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A lot of people will scream "get into the trades" but I've heard few success stories about them.

I've heard and met a quite a few success stories among tradies. A "Mestre de Obras" who now runs his own construction company, a former metal-worker who now owns it's metallurgy company (works as a contractor) and who knows much more about metallic structure design than junior engineers such as myself or my architect colleagues.

Of course, there's a survival bias there. They are both very capable men who simply didn't have the opportunity to go to college when they were young.

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The quiet rule of the trades is :

first 6 months they are going too use you as the potty paper of the group until a new guy comes in then he is you're replacement. Somehow none of them are able too understand that outside of the trades people are able too work as groups of people on the same team without using each other as amusements the first few months.

@timmy_blueballs stand with Israel.

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The biggest trade problem is nobody in the trades who is any good hires an apprentice.

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:smugtranstwitter#talking:


:#marsey:

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Do you work in the trades?

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No, I'm a hermitmaxxing codecel :marseytlsm: :marseytoasty:

My lineman friend :marseychinchilla2: makes mega bank tho, I'd be jealous :marseyjelly: if I didn't have the perk of not wearing pants :marseyjeans: all the time


:#marsey:

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Fricking grocery store Deli positions would ghost me and I've got two years experience in customer service and a food handlers.

Frick this gay earth

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>23

:marseyconfused:

If you go to a 4-year college/university after high school you'll graduate and get your first job at 21. That's assuming you had no summer internships. And no jobs in high school.

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>18+4=21

!r-slurs one of us

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thats right?

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Aren't most freshmen 17 when they start? Unless they were held back a year.

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You can get college done in 3 years if you dont frick around

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Yeah but that doesn't support my argument :marseyindignant:

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I'd say 22/23 is pretty common for first "career" job. I knew many people who worked basic jobs out of college while networking/job hunting.

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Yeah I do too. Shit I know people who didn't get one until like 30.

But most of my classmates got jobs fairly soon after graduation. Especially the ones that did internships during their summer breaks. In fact most had jobs lined up before they even graduated, although I'll admit I didn't have that myself.

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Christopher Lasch has become very popular in the online chudospheres and was predicting/commenting on this many decades ago. His thesis was centered on the idea that the creation of so many expert classes (teachers, psychologists etc.) in the realm of private/family life have caused parents to defer to :marseywomanmoment2::marseydoctor:-logic and suck. I think obviously technology has caused many parents to abdicate their responsibility even further.


Unrelatedly, Matthew 18:

1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, 3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

:marseyand#jesus: :marseygiftbo#xmarsey:

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>humble

>children

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17242115609424229.webp

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I explained responding to @lain below but I would guess He means intellectual humility and willingness to learn, which is a concept that comes up often in the Bible such as in Ecclesiastes where the novel spin on Hellenistic philosophy provided by our :marseymerchant: author is to dwell on the vanity of knowledge itself, which Greeks held in much higher regard.

@nuclearshill this would be one time it would be nice to be in your Sophists group IG. :marseyshrug: Still not joining since I know I'm just gonna get trolled a bunch and I'm still at undergrad level understanding of most topics lol

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!sophistry

I'm still at undergrad level understanding of most topics lol

That would make you a PhD compared to me and the rest of the ping members.

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Personally, I read at a pre-K level, and anything :marseycoleporter: more is pretentious :marseypainting: !sophistry

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Reported by:
  • SlaveryforIsrael : I like both the Grinch Who Stole Christmas and the Butter Battle Book

!bookworms favourite Dr Seuss :marseyinthehat: work?

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Hungry hungry hippo.

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ah, very cultured :marseycosmopolitan: good gentlesir

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He was referring to Wittgenstein.

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:marseyagreefast: I am an r-slur with barely a cursory understanding of the English language

in all seriousness it's neat being in this ping group so far, never been pinged unnecessarily or seen anybody getting mocked/trolled

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>never been pinged unnecessarily or seen anybody getting mocked/trolled

:marseyno:

What a terrible example you're setting for rdrama. !metashit all of these people should be sitebanned.

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:marseysidevote:

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:#marseygrouphug:

Make sure to use a helper :marseyclippy: verb, e.g. "have," if you don't want to sound :marseyhearnoevil: like a member of the untouchable caste. (Don't use "be" improperly either).

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I will omit whatever words I feel like leaving out :marseyindignantretard:

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The owner :marseyklennysuit: of sophists should :marseynorm: be the dramatard :marseydramautist: with the most philosophy :marseyzizek: texts by pound.

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@ACA thoughts?

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Before :marseyskellington: any weigh ins. I have a storage unit.

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I've always been curious how that relates to 1 Corinthians 13:11

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

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It's just describing something that happens.

Look at the surrounding verses, it's about something which is to come.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

:marseyhmmm: I always figured it's about the maturity you get when you're all grown up and clothed in your new heavenly body :marseysaint:

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Why do some christians take quotes out of context as universal mantras?

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:marsey#luthersoy:

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Easy W

Jewish lives matter

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Jesus directly mentions the intellectual humility of children, which is a characteristic that a wise man would likewise possess. :marseywise:

Paul actually talks about it in the same passage too, you're just having a :marseyluther: moment taking something from scripture out of context. :marseysmughips:

St. Pauls First Epistle to the Corinthians, 13:

8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

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:marseynotes#:

Oh that does make more sense, thanks.

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1 Corinthians 13:11

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things.

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I think obviously technology has caused many parents to abdicate their responsibility even further.

It's crazy how many parents just delegate raising their children to youtube and minecraft.

I see these r-slurs pushing their r-slurlets around in strollers out on a nice day while the r-slurlets are glued into a fricking ipad.

The growing social issues we have are almost entirely the fault of shitty parents completely abdicating their responsibilities.

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