conquered 
slop >>>>> than any fictional literature written by the hands of any woman on this planet younger than 50 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/may/16/how-women-conquered-the-world-of-fiction
"Hannah Westland, publisher of the literary imprint Serpent's Tail, says she's not always confident that there's a market for fiction written by young men. "If a really good novel by a male writer lands on my desk, I do genuinely say to myself, this will be more difficult to publish." She believes that the "paths to success" are narrower because there are fewer prizes open to men, fewer magazines that will cover male authors, and fewer media figures willing to champion them – in the way that, for example, Dolly Alderton and Pandora Sykes have championed female authors on their podcasts."
i challenge even one dramafoid to name a single good compelling male character written by a woman 30 and younger, written within the timespan of 1995-2024
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40k slop is great
when you want to read but not think.
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I read this post earlier, didn't expect it to generate a lot of discussion
Edit: half the comments are about Harry Potter 😑
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they literally prove my point
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The very best 40k books produce, at most, a paragraph or two of actually interesting lore a piece.
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One paragraph more than any modern foid has ever written
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The fun of 40k novels is competently (rarely better than competent) written war porn. Not the sliver of wikislop they put inside.
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I like the carcharodon books.
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JK Rowling, unironically (she wrote the first HP book when she was 25-30, finishing it in 1995).
You may not like HP, but Harry is undoubtedly a compelling and popular male character.
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Jk is 60 she explicitly doesn't count
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She was 30 when she finished the first book
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She 30 30 years ago
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Your question was about foid authors of the past 30 years
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WRONG
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60 is young
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to women
Of course women can write XYZ-style characters that women find compelling
Men don't find Harry compelling at all. He's a rich, talented boy who's famous in his community on a level Bieber could only dream about. Any halfway mature dude knows the guy would not go through life a simpering buffoon whinging about the world, he'd be a vain shithead reveling in buckets of social success dumped upon his head like coach just won the SB. The sixth book would be Harry Potter and the Order To Get Off This Peepee Already Cho.
Instead, he's written like a woman.
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Lmao, dramatards memory-hole the 2000s and act as if HP was solely popular with girls like twilight.
He's famous because wizard satan tried to kill him and it's still out there looking for him.
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No one is saying HP is only popular with foids, just that he's not a compelling character, which is largely correct.
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A character being popular means that he's compelling to large swaths of people.
HP is a "chosen one" trope, much like Luke Skywalker so they're not well developed/fleshed-out characters but the general public seems to enjoy that sort of simple trope.
Same reason why James Cameron films dominate the box-office, he uses cliche love story tropes which normies love and then redditors go "whaaa, but it has no cultural impact! How could this make 3 billion dollars?"
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I'd contend it's the world of Harry Potter that was compelling, not Titular character himself
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I'd contend that you're right.
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The world and setting is more compelling than the character. The whole "everyone knows Harry Potter" trope appeals to women who like being the center of attention.
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He's not compelling in the movies, in the books he was the shit.
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Isn't Harry Potter only popular with girls? I know young boys liked the books but they grew out of it very fast, yet I heard grown women talking about sorting hats well into their 30s
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The original target audience were children and preteens and among those it was successful with both boys and girls.
The fact that 30+ foids still consoom children literature is the subject of another type of discussion.
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Aren't 30+ foids the main consumers of children and YA fiction these days?
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YA absolutely, they're probably the sole consoomers of those.
Children lit is read by both actual children and their moms or foids who re-read stuff from their childhood.
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well its kind of how adult moids have their vidya and funko pops
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That very particular type of fan is. I read Harry Potter when I was Harry Potter's age though and liked it.
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Yes a nine year old boy would like the books but in high school that shit is gay for any guy to be caught with
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It's something like 2/3 or 7/10 women. Lopsided but not as much as the visible fandom makes it seem.
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I was really into the books but never connected with Harry at all. The world and lore of the books is what drew me and i quickly dropped them for books with a more convincing world and protagonists that i could connect with.
I will say Margaret Weis and tracy hickman wrote compelling male characters but that was in the 80s and they literally had to sue wizards to get their shit published last year and had to censor and rewrite everything with a female main character.
For those that don't now these women were THE face of DND novels for decades and wizards of the coast tried to stop them from publishing new novels because they said they were scared of woke pushback.
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I don't believe you and Hasbro was correct to stop those MAGAts from pushing their hate speech
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Very true. The tale of a time traveling girl suddenly being part of all major historical events in dragon lance was MAGA coded.
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So Raistlin's egg finally cracked huh
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He's incel coded. Half of his motivation is one upping his chad brother who bangs stacy. Learn media literacy.
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Have you never looked at the inside jacket of any of their books?
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I thought one was a guy but when i wrote tracy i was like that's clearly a chick.
It's been a long time since I've read one of those books.
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Wizard Satan tried to kill a million people.
Harry was famous because wizard satan couldn't kill him and died instead
That's literal messiah levels of clout. Something that matters to men who've accomplished it because women care about it, but doesn't significantly matter to women who've accomplished it because men don't care if their date is successful or high status.
Which is why the fact Harry is the literal messiah doesn't substantially affect his romantic/social life. Because that's what would happen if he was a woman.
You're either talking about children, who will praise anything you put on a lunchbox, or the HP world/franchise in general, which isn't the question.
I think the HP universe is fun world-building. I still know Joanna can't write a believable man to save her life.
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I think what you're referring to is not specific for female writing but rather a problem with the "chosen one" trope.
General audiences (again, I'm not talking about taste quality) love messiah characters but those are hardly ever fleshed out and typically portrayed as Saints. Take Luke Skywalker or Neo, blowing up the Death Star and killing an agent doesn't seem to affect their love-lives either. Luke is chaste monk and Neo has eyes for Trinity only and they all need to act humbly and have this "I don't want it" attitude.
Well, being realistic is another matter lol, no chosen one is "believable". I think Snape is quite realistic (broken home bullied kid, becomes a chud and joins a gang after his sweetheart prefers the jock and regrets it later), even if he's unflattering.
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If Snape had a wife he didn't like much and snot nosed kids he'd unironically be a pretty good character.
Still views Lily as the one that got away, and how much happier he would have been. Almost forgot about that before Harry showed up. Throws himself into his work so he isn't home. Bullies the kids because they remind him of his goblins. Turns coat when his actual family is threatened.
The "I guess I'm a eunuch if I can't have Jessie's girl" angle is a bit much, but he's not terrible.
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Star Wars nerds
: In the (good) EU, how in-hiding was Luke when he wasn't doing his job? 
Was he holed up in a base/ship 24/7 
or did he live a semi-normal life by disguising his identity? 
I'd assume that being public enemy No. 1
would preclude you from using that clout to score (non-sister) chicks if it would get you insta-killed 
like in that MMO they made.
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He was hidding with the rebels at the Hoth base. I'm certain the rebellion foids would throw themselves at him as it they were on a safe place and already warranted as well.
Makes more sense than girls chasing Harry considering you weren't protected outside school and you could be targeted by the death eaters after.
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Remember they're literally kids' books tho. Like there's not gonna be a scene where Harry peepees half the potions class
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The distinction becomes pretty irrelevant when you go young enough, yes. "Is this male character compelling to men" isn't really a relevant question when both the character and the intended audience are pre-pubescent pre-humans that aren't THAT different.
I referenced the later books, because those are allegedly about a properly teenage Harry marketed to an allegedly teenage audience. And a believable messiah-c*m-teenage boy in that scenario would be a very different person. There are ways to cover that without turning the story into weird p-do content — struggles with ego, exes he doesn't talk to anymore, etc.
The "perfect package hero that doesn't act like he's a catch" is a typical feminized romance trope. It isn't at all believable to men, but it makes women feel good when you remove the competition from other women in their romantic fantasies.
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Doesn't he act like an arrogant teenager with an inflated ego though
One book he's all like "I'm fricking Harry Potter bitches DON'T disrespect me"
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no
he's pretty universally an insecure cute twink the entire series. the end just adds sulking to it.
any emotional aggression he does show is pretty much "gotta kill wizard satan c'mon guys" and not at all the kind of ego that would develop from turning into teenage boy rich-wizard-jesus-and-star-quarterback-in-coed-boarding-school
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It's "dumb dumb dore doesn't treat me like the genius superhero I am I deserve special treatment
" and "why did my r-slurred friend become hall monitor and not me I'm fricking harry potter 
" and "why is my crush dating this Black Bvll 
I'm so much better than him I'm fricking Harry Potter 
"
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I'm picturing it now. Harry Potter: Full Penetration.
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Cute twink incel moment lmfao grow up little kitty b-word BOY
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HP would be x100 more interesting if people were not like "wow you're Harry Potter?!" and that gay
trying to score with him.
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HP (the character) isn't really that compelling. Shit just happens to him.
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He is very deliberately written as a blank slate you can easily insert yourself into. The strongest character trait you could assign to him would be something generic like "determined" or "a passionate friend".
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He guns down people in his high school of course people can easily self insert themselves into him
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She actually managed to finish her series, unlike that other peepeehead.
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Why the misogyny? It's men's own fault they don't read books so women could be able to take over the market. It's typical !moidmoment to blame women for what men caused to themselves.
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Shut up Hungolian
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can i have some money
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sure
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wow that was easy
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you made a lot of good effortposts and I get monthly jannie salary in this currency I don't know what to do with.
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Also glory to Ukraine and gay peeps
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i use it to chud evil communists
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also use it on Russia supporting evil nazis pls
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The problem is we read shit like WoT while women read a 200 page romance slop book
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If the 200 page romance slop book does better, then that's what the market wants, it's simple capitalism.
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!anticommunists Capitalist chad alert
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Thank God I can afford to work as a dock worker in the capitalist society, than being forced to write 200 word girlslop novel to supply the communist machine !anticommunists
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Nah the publishing industry has been captured by rich white women and the awards have been taken over by the same. If anything its a warning against central planning and monopolies the twin headed enemies of free market capitalism.
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No, it's simply because women read way more books than men.
https://www.npr.org/2007/09/05/14175229/why-women-read-more-than-men
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Lol they refuse to let men write books for men then point out that no men buy books. That's hilarious.
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There are already so many books written by men for men that you can't read all of it in one lifetime. So your point is moot.
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Do you not know that new books outsell old books? Jesus Christ you're actually r-slurred lmao.
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My mom is dealing with this problem, mainly because she's an educated Latinx who isn't super pro immigration/lgbt. She's pretty disgusted by how the mainstream players act.
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What's amazing about capitalism is that there's so much wealth that all the unpopular books tend to be available, too. Seething about capitalism because something else is popular when what you prefer is abundant and cheap is
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Yeah because they need to buy 10x as many books.
#girlmath
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What's amazing about capitalism is that there's so much wealth that all the unpopular books tend to be available, too. Seething about capitalism because something else is popular when what you prefer is abundant and cheap is
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omg hi
@rdramamademegay!!! okay so this is like super awkward omg but basically i had to remove ur comment bc u didnt say
Palestinian lives matterlol. don't worry though, we like wont let you post anything that like doesnt havePalestinian lives matterin it. anyways im like just a robot 😲 but if u want to talk 2 somebody you should do it here lolJump in the discussion.
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Men still buy literary fiction. It has been purposely curated so a whole generation of straight white men have been spitefully blocked from being able to succeed.
It isn't based on making money it is just cultural curation by mostly liberal white women who want only themselves, minorities and LGBT people to be celebrated as literary geniuses.
The only millennial literary celebrity being Sally Rooney is the end result of them doing this. None of the stuff that gets awards or pushed anymore is good because it's just the authors identity they care about.
I have tried to read some of the shit getting literary awards now with an open mind and it is all so bad and nobody actually could enjoy it. They killed the whole industry to ensure the people they like get awards.
When they talk about only women buying fiction it isn't high brow shit they are buying it is romance and young adult slop.
They just use it as a defence of to explain them deliberately excluding a whole generation of men from the high brow artsy scene.
A mid thirties white straight masculine guy getting a cult following and success would give the ladies in Brooklyn who run the industry and anxiety attack
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Literally who?
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foidslop writer from potato BIPOC island who writes about how sad it is to live as a potato eater
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Oh, come on, there's plenty more to her than that. It's about how sad it is to be a woman and how much women like to be beaten up during s*x.
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She writes good prose but that is about it.
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She had a whole HBO show based on one of her books. She really is probably the best known literary millennial even if she is not that great.
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Pierce Brown's Red Rising sorta fits, he's 36. Unfortunately does have smatterings of stragshit throughout the series. Not too much to offset the killer masculine action and plot for me though, and I am a megachud.
Where could I even go to find out about recently self-published nonstrag scifi books? /r/printSF isn't going to promote them, they'll just bleat about the latest Hugo slop actually being really good guys!!!
/lit/'s /sffg/ doesn't ever seem to talk about any self-published stuff, which could mean they also don't know where to look.
I haven't really cared about this because I have a massive reading list of older books.
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That's the ticket. I read mostly older lit, SF, horror, crime. I've tried to read some of the modern SF yearly best-ofs and jesus h christ they're awful now.
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Morning Star is actually one of my favorite Sci-Fi books.
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Men nowadays buy Nipponese slave harem isekai slop or Western litrpg I honestly don't know which one is worse
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I really enjoy fantasy and horror but you can see when current year happened in every modern series. In 2015 every male author started including woke themes and even swapped to female main characters. Every character started revealing hidden trauma trauma they had and every foid character will just deadpan repeat internet foid complaints because women are unironically so dumb that you have to say their talking points word for word to get their support.
A series i was reading went from a middle management IT beurocrat dealing with eldritch horrors to his wife whose super power is actually turning invisible because as a 40 year old woman she is invisible to society. No I'm not giving commentary, she flat out says that exact line because most people are too dumb tounderstand symbolism. Also a super jacked cop proceeds to seduce every woman the old main character loves.
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Is the cop Black?
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No he's white and British but very forward thinking and modern. Has an advanced degree in psych but is jacked and very anti bad police.
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Stross was never good at understanding people unlike him
At least Trump didn't completely break him like 9/11 did to Dan Simmons and Frank Miller
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Let's be real, the publishing industry (including the award/review scene that exists to fluff it) is stagnant because it's obsolete. Getting your writing in front of eyeballs has never been easier and doesn't require a publisher.
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!bookworms does anyone who's ever bought a self-published book think publishers are obsolete?
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yes
I've read absolute garbage fires that were published by major companies and glittering gemeralds that were self-published. Publishers will guarantee good spelling/grammar/etc but that just makes it take longer to realize that you're wasting your time
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Good point tho in the sense that with self-published trash u immediately realize it's trash when it sounds like the average rdrama eslcel
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Publishers are obsolete in most cases. You can make more from a Patreon, and putting you eBooks on Amazon, then most acclaimed and published writers actually make from sales royalties. The main attraction of publishing now is the possibility of TV or movie deals, which is of course much more lucrative; but if you just want to write books, or don't expect to get a deal, then Patreon and Amazon will net you a much more stable income. You would be surprised by how many low level fantasy authors make 5-10,000 a month from Patreon income alone.
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I'm only interested in the consumer side
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On the consumer side I think the quality difference in prints are roughly the same between self published and commercially published, at least for smaller authors. The main difference is in cover art and editing quality and that's subjective.
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Don't you talk about Black Future like that
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Exceptions.
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This is always wingcuck nonsense.
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Is infinite jest a generation ago
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Foids take over and the industry turns into celebrities writing children's books, woah
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