Redactor0naori/oppa
Darklands shill, do not engage
5mo ago#6871674
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DickButtKiss
: oral tradition is not inherently less reliable than written. lots of info lost in translation
This is the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life.
a pretext for violence, dispossession, assimilation and genocide
God I am so fricking sick of everything being bad because it could possibly be used as a pretext to do bad stuff.
We don't have to speculate about which is better. There's countless times when literate and illiterate people and whenever you have an independent way of verifying it, the literate version of history is more accurate and far more complete.
You can see this in the Middle East. When archaeologists went to some ancient ruin and asked who built it, some local person who knows the oral tradition would tell them with great confidence which famous sultan or shah of the past built it. When the archaeologists dug up these ruins and learned how to read their clay tablets and inscriptions, it turned out that the oral tradition was complete bullshit. They would find written in stone "King So-and-So built this in the year whatever." The oral traditions weren't just a little bit wrong about certain details, they were off by centuries.
Understood like this, these stories offer a powerful corrective to the ingrained assumption of written culture's superiority. And in a world where temperatures and sea levels are once again rising, a recognition of the depth of Indigenous memory offers a way to break out of short-term thinking and narratives of collapse. By demonstrating continuity stretching back thousands of years, they also provide a model for imagining the future, and prompt us to think about how our actions today will shape it.
We must retvrn to oral tradition because global temperatures may rise by 3 degrees over a 100 years.
The discovery was confirmed through cross-referencing of seismology, dendrochronology, and Japanese record-keeping of tsunamis, but had been passed down by Native Americans for a few hundred years before verification came. !historychads
The best examples of oral traditions that worked are for inherently public events like tsunamis and astronomical phenomena where everyone saw it with their own eyes. "Who built this temple" is born propaganda and starts being manipulated within about ten minutes. One interesting example is the story about the Pleiades which features a group of seven gods where one ate one of the others and when we developed good enough telescopes we found out that in fact one of the "six" Pleiades is two stars very close to each other (from our perspective) which would have been separated thousands of years ago.
Redactor0naori/oppa
Darklands shill, do not engage
Nightcrawler 5mo ago#6872858Found 6 Lottershe Ticket!
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in case you hadn't heard that one yet
Everyone knows about this because according to geologists eventually it's going to happen again. There will be a massive earthquake offshore and a tsunami. So our buildings are supposed to be able to withstand the earthquake and iirc there's loudspeakers on the coast to warn of the tsunami.
NightcrawlerX/Man
Those whom I love, I reprove and chasten; so be zealous and repent.
SpookyFartMan69 5mo ago#6872030
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Yeah I knew that the Inuit (?) stories about the wreck of the Terror amongst others ended up being true, Brits at the time thought they were lying because they didn't want to believe their navy boys had been involved in cannibalism and broken up into different groups rather than sticking together.
Those were (largely) contemporary accounts though as opposed to oral tradition successfully passing down particular events over many generations, which was what was neat about the PNW one.
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This is the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life.
![:marseylaugh: :marseylaugh:](https://i.rdrama.net/e/marseylaugh.webp)
God I am so fricking sick of everything being bad because it could possibly be used as a pretext to do bad stuff.![:marseyraging: :marseyraging:](https://i.rdrama.net/e/marseyraging.webp)
We don't have to speculate about which is better. There's countless times when literate and illiterate people and whenever you have an independent way of verifying it, the literate version of history is more accurate and far more complete.
You can see this in the Middle East. When archaeologists went to some ancient ruin and asked who built it, some local person who knows the oral tradition would tell them with great confidence which famous sultan or shah of the past built it. When the archaeologists dug up these ruins and learned how to read their clay tablets and inscriptions, it turned out that the oral tradition was complete bullshit. They would find written in stone "King So-and-So built this in the year whatever." The oral traditions weren't just a little bit wrong about certain details, they were off by centuries.
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We must retvrn to oral tradition because global temperatures may rise by 3 degrees over a 100 years.
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There actually is a fun/fascinating case of the oral tradition being vindicated with one of the indigenous PNW tribes - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one covers it well.
The discovery was confirmed through cross-referencing of seismology, dendrochronology, and Japanese record-keeping of tsunamis, but had been passed down by Native Americans for a few hundred years before verification came. !historychads
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The best examples of oral traditions that worked are for inherently public events like tsunamis and astronomical phenomena where everyone saw it with their own eyes. "Who built this temple" is born propaganda and starts being manipulated within about ten minutes. One interesting example is the story about the Pleiades which features a group of seven gods where one ate one of the others and when we developed good enough telescopes we found out that in fact one of the "six" Pleiades is two stars very close to each other (from our perspective) which would have been separated thousands of years ago.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-64606-6_11
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I fricking hate how modern (last 15 years) journ*lists write, the style is so meandering and pointless.
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I think the pretentious storytelling style of the New Yorker predates the current trend.![:marseynerdy: :marseynerdy:](https://i.rdrama.net/e/marseynerdy.webp)
I kinda liked this article though.![:marseyshrug: :marseyshrug:](https://i.rdrama.net/e/marseyshrug.webp)
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Yeah, it's not completely useless. But even in this case written records from Japan are part of the puzzle.
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I wasn't disagreeing with you, just figured I'd toss out a PNW fun fact in case you hadn't heard that one yet. I thought it was pretty neat.![:marseymoreyouknow: :marseymoreyouknow:](https://i.rdrama.net/e/marseymoreyouknow.webp)
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Everyone knows about this because according to geologists eventually it's going to happen again. There will be a massive earthquake offshore and a tsunami. So our buildings are supposed to be able to withstand the earthquake and iirc there's loudspeakers on the coast to warn of the tsunami.
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Oral tradition also helped locate a bunch of arctic wrecks from around the end of the age of sail
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Yeah I knew that the Inuit (?) stories about the wreck of the Terror amongst others ended up being true, Brits at the time thought they were lying because they didn't want to believe their navy boys
had been involved in cannibalism and broken up into different groups rather than sticking together.
Those were (largely) contemporary accounts though as opposed to oral tradition successfully passing down particular events over many generations, which was what was neat about the PNW one.
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Great example, but the best case study or oral traditions is your mom![:boomerjam: :boomerjam:](https://i.rdrama.net/e/boomerjam.webp)
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