Eeeeeeee/eeeeeee
Imma sneak over like a spider and get sum of dat fat butt
ChungusEnjoyer 10mo ago#5798505
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That's truly the greatest part of the western communism fandom. They all think that capitalism is the problem and communism will give them something fulfilling that they are passionate about. I hope they are passionate about dying in gulags or being pressed into hard labor in terrible conditions
According to Anti-Communists and Russophobes, the Gulag was a brutal network of work camps established in the Soviet Union under Stalin's ruthless regime. They claim the Gulag system was primarily used to imprison and exploit political dissidents, suspected enemies of the state, and other people deemed "undesirable" by the Soviet government. They claim that prisoners were sent to the Gulag without trial or due process, and that they were subjected to harsh living conditions, forced labour, and starvation, among other things. According to them, the Gulags were emblematic of Stalinist repression and totalitarianism.
Origins of the Mythology
This comically evil understanding of the Soviet prison system is based off only a handful of unreliable sources.
Robert Conquest's The Great Terror (published 1968. laid the groundwork for Soviet fearmongering, and was based largely off of defector testimony.
Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD), which was a secret Cold War propaganda department, created to publish anti-communist propaganda, including black propaganda; provide support and information to anti-communist politicians, academics, and writers; and to use weaponised information and disinformation and "fake news" to attack not only its original targets but also certain socialists and anti-colonial movements.
He was Solzhenytsin before Solzhenytsin, in the phrase of Timothy Garton Ash.
The Great Terror came out in 1968, four years before the first volume of The Gulag Archipelago, and it became, Garton Ash says, "a fixture in the political imagination of anybody thinking about communism".
Andrew Brown. (2003). Scourge and poet
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelag" (published 1973), one of the most famous texts on the subject, claims to be a work of non-fiction based on the author's personal experiences in the Soviet prison system. However, Solzhenitsyn was merely an anti-Communist, N@zi-sympathizing, antisemite who wanted to slander the USSR by putting forward a collection of folktales as truth. [Read more]
Anne Applebaum's Gulag: A history (published 2003. draws directly from The Gulag Archipelago and reiterates its message. Anne is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and sits on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), two infamous pieces of the ideological apparatus of the ruling class in the United States, whose primary aim is to promote the interests of American Imperialism around the world.
Counterpoints
A 1957 CIA document [which was declassified in 2010] titled “Forced Labor Camps in the USSR: Transfer of Prisoners between Camps” reveals the following information about the Soviet Gulag in pages two to six:
Until 1952, the prisoners were given a guaranteed amount food, plus extra food for over-fulfillment of quotas
From 1952 onward, the Gulag system operated upon "economic accountability" such that the more the prisoners worked, the more they were paid.
For over-fulfilling the norms by 105%, one day of sentence was counted as two, thus reducing the time spent in the Gulag by one day.
Furthermore, because of the socialist reconstruction post-war, the Soviet government had more funds and so they increased prisoners' food supplies.
Until 1954, the prisoners worked 10 hours per day, whereas the free workers worked 8 hours per day. From 1954 onward, both prisoners and free workers worked 8 hours per day.
A CIA study of a sample camp showed that 95% of the prisoners were actual criminals.
In 1953, amnesty was given to 70% of the "ordinary criminals" of a sample camp studied by the CIA. Within the next 3 months, most of them were re-arrested for committing new crimes.
Saed Teymuri. (2018). The Truth about the Soviet Gulag – Surprisingly Revealed by the CIA
Scale
Solzhenitsyn estimated that over 66 million people were victims of the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system over the course of its existence from 1918 to 1956. With the collapse of the USSR and the opening of the Soviet archives, researchers can now access actual archival evidence to prove or disprove these claims. Predictably, it turned out the propaganda was just that.
Unburdened by any documentation, these “estimates” invite us to conclude that the sum total of people incarcerated in the labor camps over a twenty-two year period (allowing for turnovers due to death and term expirations) would have constituted an astonishing portion of the Soviet population. The support and supervision of the gulag (all the labor camps, labor colonies, and prisons of the Soviet system) would have been the USSR's single largest enterprise.
In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulag as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. ...
Soviet labor camps were not death camps like those the N@zis built across Europe. There was no systematic extermination of inmates, no gas chambers or crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40 percent of the inmates were released, according to archive records. Oblivious to these facts, the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times (7/31/96) continues to describe the gulag as “the largest system of death camps in modern history.” ...
Most of those incarcerated in the gulag were not political prisoners, and the same appears to be true of inmates in the other communist states...
Michael Parenti. (1997). Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism
This is 2 million out of a population of 168 million (roughly 1.2% of the population). For comparison, in the United States, "over 5.5 million adults — or 1 in 61 — are under some form of correctional control, whether incarcerated or under community supervision." That's 1.6%. So in both relative and absolute terms, the United States' Prison Industrial Complex today is larger than the USSR's Gulag system at its peak.
Death Rate
In peace time, the mortality rate of the Gulag was around 3% to 5%. Even Conservative and anti-Communist historians have had to acknowledge this reality:
It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive...
Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hit1er were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more.
Timothy Snyder. (2010). Bloodlands: Europe Between Hit1er and Stalin
(Side note: Timothy Snyder is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations)
This is still very high for a prison mortality rate, representing the brutality of the camps. However, it also clearly indicates that they were not death camps.
Nor was it slave labour, exactly. In the camps, although labour was forced, it was not uncompensated. In fact, the prisoners were paid market wages (less expenses).
We find that even in the Gulag, where force could be most conveniently applied, camp administrators combined material incentives with overt coercion, and, as time passed, they placed more weight on motivation. By the time the Gulag system was abandoned as a major instrument of Soviet industrial policy, the primary distinction between slave and free labor had been blurred: Gulag inmates were being paid wages according to a system that mirrored that of the civilian economy described by Bergson....
The Gulag administration [also] used a “work credit” system, whereby sentences were reduced (by two days or more for every day the norm was overfulfilled).
L. Borodkin & S. Ertz. (2003). Compensation Versus Coercion in the Soviet GULAG
Additional Resources
Video Essays:
The Gulag Argument | TheFinnishBolshevik (2016)
Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions! | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
French work camps 1852-1953 worse than gulag | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
"The Gulags of the Soviet Union: There's a Lot More Than What Meets the Eye | Comrade Rhys (2020)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence | J. Arch Getty, Gábor T. Rittersporn and Viktor N. Zemskov (1993)
Listen:
"Blackshirts & Reds" (1997) by Michael Parenti, Part 4: Chapters 5 & 6. #Audiobook + Discussion. | Socialism For All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle (2022)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
GovernorGovern/ment
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X 10mo ago#5798478
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I can, a lot of them would be concentration camp guards. Too weak for the front, but ideologically secure enough to shoot enemies of the revolution.
People like that are kinda scary to me, because in every regime they're shoving jews, homosexuals, capitalists, LANDLORDS and other free thinking peoples into ovens.
Very naughty.
Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.
GovernorGovern/ment
/r/Drama's only elected official by voice vote!
E 10mo ago#5798531
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I would agree, but in times of instability, all it takes is for one weirdo to assassinate the right politician. It's a sad, frustrating and scary place to be.
So don't do it, weirdos!
Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.
Let's be real, the useful idiots are the first people you line up against the wall, because they saw how the sausage was made but also remember the internal promises you made
Revolutions are an inherent revolt of the working class. It will never happen until real working class people feel the pinch and get pushed to the extreme. These tards are larpers who think they'd be able to play some epic role like minister of dog walkers, and tarot inspection expert. They're deplorables in any communist collectivist, and are nothing short of delusional and mentally ill. Revolt is grass roots, not larping online and having delusions of grandeur. Shooting a gun would give these cucks PTSD.
You want my honest opinion? Strong reeducation through community labor, and reintegration with society only once they have come to understand the backwardness of their ideologies and can show even a drop of empathy for other human beings
The and the would take a break from murdering eachother to overthrow this larp
RedeeIVIedSinnerI/We
I’m 100% certain that at least half the mods do not have Faith or the Holy Spirit.
ChungusEnjoyer 10mo ago#5798323
spent 0 currency on pings
mutenoct/urnal 10mo ago#5798320
spent 0 currency on pings
they have a bot dedicated to longposting about how actually gulags were super wholesome and the prisoners all did arts and crafts but then immediately call for forced labor in the gulag as punishment for wrongthink in the same category as extrajudicial execution
You want my honest opinion? Strong reeducation through community labor, and reintegration with society only once they have come to understand the backwardness of their ideologies and can show even a drop of empathy for other human beings
It's like these people are aliens who have never met a human being, let alone understand how to change hearts and minds
If we just force them to do what we want by any means necessary, they will come around and agree with us wholeheartedly
"I need to put them through immense pain and hardship to make them empathetic like me!" Jesus I wish these twinks would try so they'd get stomped into mush
Their problem is that their first instinct is to utilize the police to bludgeon the population out of criminality, instead of utilizing some sort of alternate systems to prevent the things that cause crime. Your population is committing crimes largely because they're poor. Wasting money in cops will keep them poor and also keep your city from having the public funds to do anything else but poor money into the police. Idk I don't know if there is a meaningful solution to the small town “crime problem” because most small American towns just genuinely aren't economically viable any more. And there's not a way to make em economically viable without having some big fricking corporation basically take over your town nowadays.
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What is this batshit sub holy crap
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Commies
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They are the ones who have infected RSP
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cant imagine those redditors in a communist regime
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Me under gommunism:
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what do you mean I have to work in the acid mines? I thought I could be a twitch streamer!
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That's truly the greatest part of the western communism fandom. They all think that capitalism is the problem and communism will give them something fulfilling that they are passionate about. I hope they are passionate about dying in gulags or being pressed into hard labor in terrible conditions
Putting the in
spookieturkeyJump in the discussion.
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redditors when they find out that they have to fight the sewer mutants created from years of dumping trans fat and DNA down the drain.
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Gulag
According to Anti-Communists and Russophobes, the Gulag was a brutal network of work camps established in the Soviet Union under Stalin's ruthless regime. They claim the Gulag system was primarily used to imprison and exploit political dissidents, suspected enemies of the state, and other people deemed "undesirable" by the Soviet government. They claim that prisoners were sent to the Gulag without trial or due process, and that they were subjected to harsh living conditions, forced labour, and starvation, among other things. According to them, the Gulags were emblematic of Stalinist repression and totalitarianism.
Origins of the Mythology
This comically evil understanding of the Soviet prison system is based off only a handful of unreliable sources.
Robert Conquest's The Great Terror (published 1968. laid the groundwork for Soviet fearmongering, and was based largely off of defector testimony.
Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD), which was a secret Cold War propaganda department, created to publish anti-communist propaganda, including black propaganda; provide support and information to anti-communist politicians, academics, and writers; and to use weaponised information and disinformation and "fake news" to attack not only its original targets but also certain socialists and anti-colonial movements.
He was Solzhenytsin before Solzhenytsin, in the phrase of Timothy Garton Ash.
The Great Terror came out in 1968, four years before the first volume of The Gulag Archipelago, and it became, Garton Ash says, "a fixture in the political imagination of anybody thinking about communism".
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelag" (published 1973), one of the most famous texts on the subject, claims to be a work of non-fiction based on the author's personal experiences in the Soviet prison system. However, Solzhenitsyn was merely an anti-Communist, N@zi-sympathizing, antisemite who wanted to slander the USSR by putting forward a collection of folktales as truth. [Read more]
Anne Applebaum's Gulag: A history (published 2003. draws directly from The Gulag Archipelago and reiterates its message. Anne is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and sits on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), two infamous pieces of the ideological apparatus of the ruling class in the United States, whose primary aim is to promote the interests of American Imperialism around the world.
Counterpoints
A 1957 CIA document [which was declassified in 2010] titled “Forced Labor Camps in the USSR: Transfer of Prisoners between Camps” reveals the following information about the Soviet Gulag in pages two to six:
Until 1952, the prisoners were given a guaranteed amount food, plus extra food for over-fulfillment of quotas
From 1952 onward, the Gulag system operated upon "economic accountability" such that the more the prisoners worked, the more they were paid.
For over-fulfilling the norms by 105%, one day of sentence was counted as two, thus reducing the time spent in the Gulag by one day.
Furthermore, because of the socialist reconstruction post-war, the Soviet government had more funds and so they increased prisoners' food supplies.
Until 1954, the prisoners worked 10 hours per day, whereas the free workers worked 8 hours per day. From 1954 onward, both prisoners and free workers worked 8 hours per day.
A CIA study of a sample camp showed that 95% of the prisoners were actual criminals.
In 1953, amnesty was given to 70% of the "ordinary criminals" of a sample camp studied by the CIA. Within the next 3 months, most of them were re-arrested for committing new crimes.
Scale
Solzhenitsyn estimated that over 66 million people were victims of the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system over the course of its existence from 1918 to 1956. With the collapse of the USSR and the opening of the Soviet archives, researchers can now access actual archival evidence to prove or disprove these claims. Predictably, it turned out the propaganda was just that.
Unburdened by any documentation, these “estimates” invite us to conclude that the sum total of people incarcerated in the labor camps over a twenty-two year period (allowing for turnovers due to death and term expirations) would have constituted an astonishing portion of the Soviet population. The support and supervision of the gulag (all the labor camps, labor colonies, and prisons of the Soviet system) would have been the USSR's single largest enterprise.
In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulag as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. ...
Soviet labor camps were not death camps like those the N@zis built across Europe. There was no systematic extermination of inmates, no gas chambers or crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40 percent of the inmates were released, according to archive records. Oblivious to these facts, the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times (7/31/96) continues to describe the gulag as “the largest system of death camps in modern history.” ...
Most of those incarcerated in the gulag were not political prisoners, and the same appears to be true of inmates in the other communist states...
This is 2 million out of a population of 168 million (roughly 1.2% of the population). For comparison, in the United States, "over 5.5 million adults — or 1 in 61 — are under some form of correctional control, whether incarcerated or under community supervision." That's 1.6%. So in both relative and absolute terms, the United States' Prison Industrial Complex today is larger than the USSR's Gulag system at its peak.
Death Rate
In peace time, the mortality rate of the Gulag was around 3% to 5%. Even Conservative and anti-Communist historians have had to acknowledge this reality:
It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive...
Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hit1er were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more.
(Side note: Timothy Snyder is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations)
This is still very high for a prison mortality rate, representing the brutality of the camps. However, it also clearly indicates that they were not death camps.
Nor was it slave labour, exactly. In the camps, although labour was forced, it was not uncompensated. In fact, the prisoners were paid market wages (less expenses).
We find that even in the Gulag, where force could be most conveniently applied, camp administrators combined material incentives with overt coercion, and, as time passed, they placed more weight on motivation. By the time the Gulag system was abandoned as a major instrument of Soviet industrial policy, the primary distinction between slave and free labor had been blurred: Gulag inmates were being paid wages according to a system that mirrored that of the civilian economy described by Bergson....
The Gulag administration [also] used a “work credit” system, whereby sentences were reduced (by two days or more for every day the norm was overfulfilled).
Additional Resources
Video Essays:
The Gulag Argument | TheFinnishBolshevik (2016)
Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions! | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
French work camps 1852-1953 worse than gulag | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
"The Gulags of the Soviet Union: There's a Lot More Than What Meets the Eye | Comrade Rhys (2020)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence | J. Arch Getty, Gábor T. Rittersporn and Viktor N. Zemskov (1993)
Listen:
"Blackshirts & Reds" (1997) by Michael Parenti, Part 4: Chapters 5 & 6. #Audiobook + Discussion. | Socialism For All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle (2022)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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I can, a lot of them would be concentration camp guards. Too weak for the front, but ideologically secure enough to shoot enemies of the revolution.
People like that are kinda scary to me, because in every regime they're shoving jews, homosexuals, capitalists, LANDLORDS and other free thinking peoples into ovens.
Very naughty.
Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.
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I feel like that's still too much effort for a lot of the people dreaming of revolutions
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spookieturkeyJump in the discussion.
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I would agree, but in times of instability, all it takes is for one weirdo to assassinate the right politician. It's a sad, frustrating and scary place to be.
So don't do it, weirdos!
Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.
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!domesticterrorists you heard the man, don't do it!!!!
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Let's be real, the useful idiots are the first people you line up against the wall, because they saw how the sausage was made but also remember the internal promises you made
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I want to see these Redditor cute twinks that are too scared to place a phone order for a pizza stage a revolution.
And I thought heckin insurrections were unwholesome anyway.
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Revolutions are an inherent revolt of the working class. It will never happen until real working class people feel the pinch and get pushed to the extreme. These tards are larpers who think they'd be able to play some epic role like minister of dog walkers, and tarot inspection expert. They're deplorables in any communist collectivist, and are nothing short of delusional and mentally ill. Revolt is grass roots, not larping online and having delusions of grandeur. Shooting a gun would give these cucks PTSD.
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In real communism, the hierarchy of society matches the oppression pyramid. People of fake disability are the ruling class.
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It says here you wrote about killing fascists, but comrade, such activity is reserved for the political commissar and his men.
Get in the van.
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https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/TheDeprogram/comments/19cxyh4/_/kj1xk8h/#comment-info
!reportmaxxers
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The and the would take a break from murdering eachother to overthrow this larp
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Who's gonna make them lol
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apparently the empathy-havers
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they have a bot dedicated to longposting about how actually gulags were super wholesome and the prisoners all did arts and crafts but then immediately call for forced labor in the gulag as punishment for wrongthink in the same category as extrajudicial execution
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Nobody does motte and bailey arguments better than the commies, because they actually believe it
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It's like these people are aliens who have never met a human being, let alone understand how to change hearts and minds
If we just force them to do what we want by any means necessary, they will come around and agree with us wholeheartedly
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"I need to put them through immense pain and hardship to make them empathetic like me!" Jesus I wish these twinks would try so they'd get stomped into mush
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Also this person
Policing criminals
Policing wrongthink
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Reddit commies and turbolibs saying that the other side needs to log off to become normal is to an extreme
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You wanna know the crazy part? They're both right lmao
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Stupid commies could have at least given little bro a Che shirt before they chopped his arm off.
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What revolution are they talking about?
None of them are starting shit
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someone cross post to those palestine lover subreddits
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Deleted what was it?
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Talking about doing away with undesirables.
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Snapshots:
undelete.pullpush.io
ghostarchive.org
archive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
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