election shenanigans: Leaked plans reveal Tories don't rule out arresting teens who refuse national service 
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1d0vyh7/leaked_national_service_plans_dont_rule_out/
Leaked National Service plans don't rule out arresting teens for not taking part
Tory plans to bring back mandatory national service are in chaos after a leaked briefing paper suggested young people could be arrested for not taking part.
Rishi Sunak has announced that all 18-year-olds will be forced to take part in his proposed new programme. Young people would be given a choice between a full-time placement in the armed forces for 12 months or spending one weekend a month for a year "volunteering," in their community.
The Mirror has seen an internal Tory briefing paper on the policy that does not rule out arresting youngsters if they fail to take part.
In a Q&A section of the document, it asks: “Will you arrest people who don't comply?” The response is: “It is right that those who contribute to our system are duly rewarded, and those who refuse receive none of the benefits. The Royal Commission will explore an appropriate incentives regime.”
Ministers have attempted to quickly backtrack as the policy descended into shambles this morning. Home Secretary James Cleverly insisted 18-year-olds would not be sent to jail if they refused. Asked on Sky News whether the consequences of resisting the compulsory scheme could involve a prison term, he said: "No, there's going to be no criminal sanction. There's no one going to jail over this."
The Conservatives have said they would establish a Royal Commission bringing in expertise from across the military and civil society to establish the details of what they described as the "bold" national service programme. The party said this commission would be tasked with bringing forward a proposal for how to ensure the first pilot is open for applications in September 2025.
After that, it would seek to introduce a new "National Service Act" to make the measures compulsory by the end of the next Parliament, the party said. It estimates the programme will cost £2.5 billion a year by the end of the decade and plans to fund £1 billion through plans to "crack down on tax avoidance and evasion".
The remaining £1.5 billion will be paid for with money previously used for the UK Shared Prosperity Fund (UKSPF), which is a package to support charities and community groups, the Tories said.
The Prime Minister said: "This is a great country but generations of young people have not had the opportunities or experience they deserve and there are forces trying to divide our society in this increasingly uncertain world. I have a clear plan to address this and secure our future. I will bring in a new model of national service to create a shared sense of purpose among our young people and a renewed sense of pride in our country.
"This new, mandatory national service will provide life-changing opportunities for our young people, offering them the chance to learn real world skills, do new things and contribute to their community and our country."
Opposition critics have dismissed the plans as unserious. Labour pointed out that David Cameron introduced a similar scheme - the National Citizen Service - when he was prime minister. Lord Cameron's announcement had no military component to it, instead encouraging youngsters to take part in activities such as outdoor education-style courses as part of his "Big Society" initiative.
A Labour spokesman said: "This is not a plan - it's a review which could cost billions and is only needed because the Tories hollowed out the armed forces to their smallest size since Napoleon. Britain has had enough of the Conservatives, who are bankrupt of ideas, and have no plans to end 14 years of chaos. It's time to turn the page and rebuild Britain with Labour."
A party source mocked the plans, saying that under the Tories it would be “maths to 18 and then straight off to war”.
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What's the problem
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It's dumb and waste of resources. I had a mate that wasted a decade of court and police resources by dodging the service. He get caught sits few months get out they drag him to the service and he dodges again. Until they drag his arse into conscription center only to be rejected because of his criminal record and friends he got in jail.
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It's an overwhelmingly unpopular idea outside of the few people they're trying to bring back to their side.
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It's popular among people who never had to and never will have to do national service
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Sometimes those who know what's best for the country need to make you make sacrifices for it. That's just democracy.
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Why? If you aren't in education, you contribute something to your country through military service, or if that's too much to ask, you contribute to your community with civil service, and then it's over and you exit with hopefully a little bit of much needed discipline, something halfway approaching good physical condition, and some useful life skills.
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You contribute by becoming a productive member of your society. These guys want young people to go die for bankers and Israel, and to oppress the country's natives.
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The people this policy targets are not likely to be productive members of society if left to their own devices - they're young, out of productive work, and not in any sort of training or education scheme.
This policy is motivated by homeland defense needs, and by extension, European defense needs. Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Lithuania, and Sweden all have some form of conscription and most of them have had it for generations - I went through it and didn't end up 'dying for bankers and Israel' or 'oppressing the country's natives' (whatever that's supposed to mean).
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They're not going to be productive in the military if that's the case.
Oddly enough, England has suddenly decided they need it after becoming warhawks in the Ukraine and in support of Israel. Why shouldn't we assume that's the case when this didn't become this big of a thing previously?
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The military has a way of fixing a good portion of the listless and useless that end up as its recruits, and for those it can't fix, they'll be warehoused in some crappy role until they realize it's easier to work with the institution than against it, or their year is up and they walk away just as shit as if they'd never been conscripted. It's not some theoretical concept - 10 000 18 to 27 year olds from every possible walk of life get drawn into my country's military every year, many of them not initially too happy about this fact, some of them are absolute shitbags who've never done a thing for themselves before, some are guys you'd absolutely want watching your back in war, and a whole lot of in between. The military makes most of them into functional soldiers over the course of a year, and then it gets another 10 000 to shape into something useful, and so on.
This is not a policy in support of Israel, it's partly a policy a struggling government is using to try and win votes in a coming election, and it's partly about the fact that Europe has not been in a more perilous geopolitical situation since the buildup to the second world war, and the government there, and plenty of others across Europe, are realizing that now they're in this period of serious peril, they've let their national defense forces dwindle, particularly in light of the fact that Russia has demonstrated they have nearly endless supplies of meat that they're prepared to throw into the grinder to achieve any goal, no matter how small.
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Western militaries are doing a pretty lousy job of that. Just look at all the trouble the Houthis are causing and getting away with.
Europe's put itself in that situation over there. They aren't just reacting to a situation. They helped cause it, and now they're going to kill their citizens over it. All this after trying to demographically embrace them and trying to rob them of any freedom they had during COVID. They just want thugs to abuse their people even more and serve their foreign masters.
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lol. I did my military service 15 years ago, before that was my brother, before that my father, before that my grandfathers, before that my great grandfathers (who wasn't conscripted as a precaution for war, but for actual war). The British had a couple of decades of conscription after the war, and Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland all have had it for generations too. We all seem to have managed to make it work without sending our conscripts to do something or other related to Jews or whatever? Admit it, you're just a bit of a kitty and the idea of doing something for your country or community offends your selfish sensibilities, so it must all be totally bad and impossible.
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Its called taxes rslur, you can take 80% of someone's income or send them off to die in a war for funsies, but it is difficult to convince someone to do both
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I'm not sure the British tax rate is 80%, and certainly not for an unemployed 18 year old. Relying on purely volunteer military clearly isn't going to work at the moment, zoomers are too apathetic to make the choice themselves, and given that the geopolitical situation is the most perilous it's been since the lead up to the second world war, and there are serious problems with national cohesion and getting the many many many children of unintegrated immigrants assimilate into British society, it's probably for the best that the choice be taken from them.
And if 'being sent off to die for funsies' (lol) is too much to ask, then you'll spend your weekends for a year doing something for your community instead, while you continue to collect your benefits.
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The next 1st world country to unironically call a draft will get overthrown (ukraine is 3rd world, and still what was the result? The country is destroyed, the men are dead, and all my american friends are dating hot ukranian girls)
Drafts weren't palatable 50 years ago and its only gotten 10x worse as people are 1000x less patriotic (for good reason, iraq and afghanistan rekt american good will, spend a bajillion dollars for no reason, left the people bitter and jaded, recruitment is down, people assume the US is in the wrong even when military action is justified, we failed to nation build, and in the end we realized that the real oil was the fracking we made along the way so it was a giant geostrategic frick up with nothing to show for it but dead american boys that never needed to happen)
Not to mention the consensus that drafts are more effective at killing your tax base than killing the enemy
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My country is first world, and has had a 'draft' ever since world war 2. Sweden just returned to conscription, and Germany and France are both close to remobilizing limited conscription, too. I eagerly await the inevitable collapse of the government in my country and 'the tax base'... it'll happen any time now, surely.
The tax base argument is pretty funny though, if the British conscript only those within a narrow age bracket who aren't working or in education, there is no tax loss, since these were people who were literally doing nothing and living off of tax income, now they're just getting put to some use for the same cost.
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Imagine saying that and taking it seriously.
The American draft was an abject failure that led to all the worst aspects of the Vietnam War.
I would recommend you do something besides "study" at university.
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America fricked it up with one overseas war - so it can never work!! God zoomers are pathetic.
I just did. And I'll say it again. Generations of mandatory conscription, and it's still well supported by the public, and it still produces 10 000 new soldiers a year.
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It's not really that unpopular. That said, it's not going to be enough to save them from an election wipeout.
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