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ticktocktrainbuteepy lol/lmao/even HELLO? IS THIS THING ON?  2mo ago (image post) 2,037 thread views #298623

You're not playing any of these games, right, anon?

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There is still time to admit you didn't read even a single sentence of my post. I quoted six classical authors.

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There's still time to admit you've even given and thought to the fact that this shit might be made up and just blindly googled a shitty defense of it to cling to your sad world view

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OK, so you just admitted you didn't read my post, or you're trolling. I hope for the latter.

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You post the same shitty sources that wikipedia uses to promote the idea that they were all gay. True scholar you are. The best thing any actual scholar will tell you about that shit is "maybe". Do something other than google this shit for sources that agree with you if you are at all interested in finding the truth.

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There are only so many classical texts still extant, what do you want me to do, make up new sources? Of course Wikipedia would cite some of these. "Shitty"? No, these are direct quotations from classical texts (in translation of course). What kind of point is that?

Do something other than google this shit for sources that agree with you if you are at all interested in finding the truth.

You listened to some Internet contrarian who claims that the existence of homosexual practices in ancient Greece was made up by a gay dude in the 70s...... and had zero knowledge of the classical sources involving this topic. This conversation started with the lie that this was something made up by some gay dude in the 70s.

The best thing any actual scholar will tell you about that shit is "maybe".

And you've listened to a """scholar""" on the Internet which defamed the entire field of classics because of his wingcuckery. Someone who is willing to make up the most ridiculous lies.

If you are at all interested in finding the truth, perhaps do not listen to these people. They certainly do not care about truth.

EDIT: it is interesting that Miffin says I "googled this shit[sic] for sources that agree with" me. I made quotations from the extant classical corpus on the Sacred Band. I am sure the irony here is not lost.

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>And you've listened to a """scholar""" on the Internet which defamed the entire field of classics because of his wingcuckery. Someone who is willing to make up the most ridiculous lies.

And you've done less than that lmao. Your "classical texts", none of which you have actually read btw, are all either taken out of context snippets written by enemies of thebes or long after the fact speculations based on those snippets. And of those you are posting modern translations that do things like take words that mean very well could be translated as friends and translate that shit to lovers.

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You're repeating yourself, because you did not read the post. I will, however, act as if you did read the post.

long after the fact

You shifted the goalposts. You said that homosexual practices in ancient Greece were made up by some gay dude in the 1970s. In any case, if we go by this logic, you have to deny plenty of ancient history (I mean, you just rejected Plutarch). Which is fine, but if you had interest in that, you would just deny the Sacred Band even existed. But no, instead- wingcuckery. There are multiple authors which associate the Sacred Band with pederasty. Of the AD writers, they cite their sources (eg. Plutarch-Callisthenes, and Callisthenes was a contemporary writer, although his work is now lost), which often are also compilations, going back... as is a tradition in ancient Greek historical writing.

enemies of thebes

Xenophon, yes. The others, no. Of course, Xenophon is not the only text I cited. Most writers who were against Thebes, the Athenians, didn't even mention the Sacred Band. You made that up on the spot.

are all either taken out of context snippets

None of these are out of context snippets. You made that up on the spot.

And of those you are posting modern translations that do things like take words that mean very well could be translated as friends and translate that shit to lovers.

All of the quotations are from texts translated before homosexuality was socially accepted. You made that up on the spot.

EDIT: Xenophon doesn't even mention the Sacred Band by name, and this is the thing all the more insulting, so it's not even a necessary defense- rather, I used him as a contemporaneous, more known name, to establish that, no, it was not made up by some (gay or otherwise) dudes in the 1970s that homosexual practices existed in the 1970s. Valorous homosexual pairs is not a particularly uncommon (literary) trope in classical Greece.

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>you made that up on the spot

No, you just googled answers to counter it by sham historians. I'm gonna go. You are just going to keep crying about how all your flawed sources from wikipedia are correct so there's not really a point in trying to argue

Here's a quote for you

>The legend of the Sacred Band seems to have begun in the early fourth century as a fanciful real-world analogy that initially supported and ultimately replaced a utopian proposal to build a city or army on the ennobling bond between lover and beloved. The citizens of this ideal polis would be unified and conspicuous in their love of liberty, and it was perhaps this idea that gave the Theban Sacred Band a history. For although an actual Sacred Band—if there even was one—must have fought many battles from 375 to 338, the tradition of the Sacred Band focused on just three battles in which the man-loving Thebans fought tyrants on Boeotian soil: Tegyra and Leuctra, where the Thebans toppled the Spartan hegemony and restored freedom to Boeotia and Greece, and Chaeronea, where they fell bravely to the tyrannical Philip, who brought Greek liberty to an end. Tegyra and Leuctra had probably already been fashioned into stands against tyranny in Callisthenes' Hellenica, and possibly already in the obscure Boeotian chroniclers on whom Callisthenes is supposed to have drawn, and Chaeronea, Thebes's answer to the heroic stand of Leonidas and the three hundred Spartans at Thermopylae, may have come to be understood in similar terms. But it was not until this panegyric history became attached to the erotic political philosophy of men like Plato, Xenophon's Pausanias, and Zeno of Citium that the legend of the Sacred Band acquired its distinctive erotic dimension.

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No, you just googled answers to counter it by sham historians. I'm gonna go. You are just going to keep crying about how all your flawed sources from wikipedia are correct so there's not really a point in trying to argue

Et voila: quotations from classical sources are sham historians from Wikipedia! But wingcuck liars on the Internet are REAL historians!

I do not see anything in that quote saying that homosexual practices in ancient Greece were made up by a gay dude in the 1970s. Interesting.

EDIT: Miffin quotes here Leitao's "The Legend of the Sacred Band". I am obviously well aware of this, as I have previously mentioned that revisionary historians on this topic exist. However, if you care about consensus, they are still, well, revisionaries/the minority, and two, as is plain to all to see, Leitao doesn't deny the multiple accounts which I have procured... because, they are direct citations from classical texts, and not 'agreed points by sham historians I googled for this shit[sic]' or whaever. I am sure that the irony is palpable- the only person who has quoted secondary source shit[sic] that only agrees with one's points is Miffin. I have exclusively quoted primary sources.

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More comments

As I've already said, yes, there are revisionists on this topic. However, they just deny the existence of the Sacred Band altogether.

As I've previously said, it is also true that this revisionism began with the modern field of history.

All in all, your own source contradicts you. It says that ancient Greeks themselves associated the Sacred Band with pederasty. Nothing to do with a gay dude in the 1970s.

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17227070857606635.webp

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