https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1g6h0x4/elder_scrolls_6_likely_wont_revert_to_fiddly/
!g*mers I never played BG3, only Skyrim but not a whole lot, what exactly are they talking about here?
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I don't see the point of asking them these things when they're genuinely unable to implement the basic skill systems they already made.
A lot of Starfields talents are either broken or totally useless. Of course they're not gonna try something more complicated
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The vanilla Skyrim ability tree was so fricking bad lmao. It's astonishing that games with such enormous budgets fail at it so spectacularly when one passionate person can do a better job with a mod.
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I'm sad they might be doubling down on simplifying the system. Skyrim's system was extremely simple and sucked. The 3 things I'd want from the next game are better combat, game systems with more depth than a puddle in the road, and co-op multiplayer. But I have a feeling we'll get none of that.
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I rly enjoyed how every quest devolved into "go to dungeon and kill undead".
Mages college? Go to cave and kill undead.
Thieves guild? Go to cave and kill undead.
Assassins? Go to cave and kill undead.
Grandma lost her keys? Go to cave and kill undead.
Riveting.
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True it is a lot of undead. I think I might have avoided getting annoyed by that by doing a couple quest lines I was interested in and ignoring most of them lol.
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The whole elder scrolls series is procedurally generated slop vastness, of course the quests are going to have zero depth to them. It's like playing no man's sky in a gay fantasy world
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That was just skyrim and daggerfall. Morrowind and oblivion were both handmade and had actually good quests
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Pretty sure oblivion was also largely procedurally generated aside from story specific stuff
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Oblivion was more copy pasted than procedurally generated
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Maybe bits of the map but the quests were actual quests. I have no idea what was going through Todd's mind when he bragged about radiant quests being a thing while marketing skyrim
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versus Bethesda Fallout where every quest is "go to industrial corridors (a.k.a. man-made cave) and kill guys who look and act undead but technically aren't"
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And starfield which is "go to space cave and kill guys whose AI is so bad they're basically undead"
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Heck no
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Booo
I just want to be able to play with my friends is that too much to ask?
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Syncing quests and world state would be a mess between different characters
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Syncing your MOM is a mess between different characters, yet everyone does it.
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In Skyrim you can get an npc companion to travel with you so I assume one person would host and the other would either take control of the companion or function like a companion in the host's world. That said I played through Dying Light completely in coop which is also open world and where it makes 0 sense lore wise for it to be coop and it was great. Honestly one of the most memorable times I had with one of my bros. I mainly play games for the social experience with friends and if Elder Scrolls 6 has coop I'll probably get it, if it doesn't I'm likely gonna skip.
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Man Dying Light coop fricking ruled. My brother got the grappling hook before me. He then fired off guns in a quarantine zone to rile up the super zombies and zipped out, with me on foot.
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The WoW guys could do it in 2004
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I don't want elder scrolls 6 to be eso
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That's just a matter of not using mmorpg mechanics and using real game mechanics instead
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Yes
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Crystal project is basically the best 2d final fantasy ever made and it's made by one fricking guy in like a year.
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There are literally thousands of just waiting to be asked to do a skill tree properly
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If BG3 is considered a too complex leveling system I'd have to assume Elder Scrolls 6 doesn't have leveling at all.
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Skyrim barely did relative to Oblivion which barely did relative to Morrowind
You're going to have 2 stats, DAMAGE and NOT DAMAGE. DAMAGE is how much damage you do, 1-10, NOT DAMAGE is how much damage you don't take (1-10). The entire game will be a series of procedurally generated corridors with radiant quests given to you by obese Redguard women at predetermined points along the main corridor. Many of them will be transgender, some will be lesbians. They will all greet you with their pronouns. Upon accepting a radiant quest you will fast travel to another procgen corridor to complete it. Repeat until you kill the big bad Imperial at the end of the game.
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AI HAS SPOKEN
(Requested he overlay "the elder scrolls 6" after)
!commenters
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AH
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Man oblivion sucked too. I didn't know about mods back then, so I had to game their stupid major/minor skill system to not make a gimped character
Yet this is somehow still superior to everything they made after it
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Yeah Oblivion rules retroactively
Though Shivering Isles was god tier even when new
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Shivering isles is literally mankinds magnum opus
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AH
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Yea Oblivion is my favorite of the series but it's a total asspain that you have to deal with mods to make the leveling system make sense. Sucks to be you if you wanna play on console
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Honestly while I played with mods for like graphics and bugfixes and stuff, I played with the normal progression system, and it's really not THAT bad. If you try min-maxing you'll be pulling your darn hair out but the game is plenty easy enough to breeze through the end with any build if you do all the side quests. I was killing shit so insanely fast by the end that whether I was missing 5 attribute points or whatever just didn't matter.
IMO oblivion and skyrim are both much, much better games if you don't take them too seriously.
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seeing myself getting only +4 to a stat on level up had me like
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I broke my leg, got lots of Vicodin, played 1000 hours of oblivion, barely remember any of it, but I have seen some pics and it looks like I had a good time
Putting the in
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There's a pretty good table on the uesp wiki about the general differences.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Differences_Between_Morrowind,_Oblivion,_and_Skyrim
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just remove stats altogether. and all combat plays out through a series of quicktime events
it's funny watching people b-word about this the same way i bitched about oblivion back in the day
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I literally can't wait. I hope it's available in VR too.
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Oblivion's leveling system sucked so hard, that Skyrim's was a huge improvement.
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AH
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Having to count is too complex for most people
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That quote is out of context and the guy doesn't even work at Bethesda anymore lol. Anyways, he's speculating that stat/character menus will not go back to taking a larger role like in the previous games because of BG3's success. Todd no likey in his western mass market rpg-lite adventure slop game, MORE BASEBUILDING
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Todd needs to hire someone with actual talents for RPG design. Believe it or not, even casuals like hints of complexity.
Heck just look at PoE.
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I have never understood this sneak archer thing. It's the slowest least rewarding gameplay and the justification i usually get is that its required at higher difficulty levels. Then lower the difficulty if it's so hard r-slur.
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Because people like big peepee number and sneak archer, or just archery in general is the quickest and easiest way to do it, both lower and higher level. Modern gaming after the slump of MMO seems to be more about efficiency instead of experimental.
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I think people are drawn to it because it's the closest approximation to an fps at that point.
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there's plenty of video essays talking about why the game design forces you to be a stealth archer
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I'm sure there are, but i don't play stealth or archer ever because both are gay. So clearly you aren't forced. If it's too hard otherwise then just lower the difficulty.
In morrowind i even made a 1 damage max area agro spell to help enemies find me so that i could clear dungeons quicker. Id suck start a 12 Guage before i slow walked through a dungeon looking for enemies.
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If you dont play sneak archer the enemies will overpower your poor female mc and r*pe her.
But fr, sneak archer is simply the fastest way to clear a dungeon in my experience.
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I just played an archer because archery is cool.
I tried to play a mage, but it did zero damage, and you ran out of mana intermediately, at least early on. So I reverted back to a bow.
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Skyrim got rid of the character development system that it had refined between Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Arena, making it a fake Elder Scrolls game. Fallout 4 did the same thing, making it a fake Fallout game.
Skyrim ditched stats to make a Perk+Skill tree, and eliminated races other than cosmetics to kill off their bonuses. Sounds like Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be even simpler. Maybe it'll be a phone game you play with a joystick.
This but you earn Daedric armor!
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Oblivion was the real death of the series. They removed so many spells and mechanics and added a shit ton of hand holding. Also i didn't like going in the oblivion gates.
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I didn't even play any main quest. I did thieves guild and some mage stuff.
I'm a Morrowcel, it's the best.
I'm not a fan of having to grind so much if you want to get the 5x bonus for your three stat picks. That could have been refined, just give people the darn 15 points to distribute.
As for today's quality of life mechanics, add a compass and marker instead of terrible journal entries about which tree stump you need to turn by to retrieve guild dues.
I hated that so much of the spellmaking got nerfed in Oblivion.
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lol
Morrowboomers talking about their deep complex leveling and at the same time lamenting the loss of the utterly cheated spellmaking they used to one-shot everything and bypass the game's broken mechanics never gets old
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All Morrowind needs to be balanced is for time to pass in inventory menus.
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No, you see,
Morrowind is actually a very complex game
with many overarching mechanics
which requires a lot more thought and engagement from the player
and frankly holds up much better than later titles
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I swear I played morrowind for like 3 hours and gave up because I couldn't figure anything out but that was like 10 years ago
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!g*mers, this is why we can't have nice things.
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The theifs guild questline in oblivion was better than the main story. I still can't believe they put that much time and effort into it.
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it seems like after Morrowind every game had their worst hack writers on the mainline story and the side stuff was given to people who actually could make something interesting
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When you level up a character in BG3 you have to go through the D&D leveling process of choosing feats, spells, stat point allocations, etc. It's no big deal when you know what you're doing or have played a D&D video game in the past 30 years but I guess some people think it's fiddly.
Also ES6 is 100% going to suck balls.
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BG3 was my first D&D game, so everything seemed dauting at first, but the leveling (and multiclassing) became simple after a while. It's certainly a better than Bethesda's moronic system of jumping and picking locks to level up.
The only way I would have faith in ESVI is if Larian was developing it. They almosg perfected what Bethesda and Bioware were trying to do for the last 20 years.
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I've played both extensively I have no idea what he's talking about, BGIII character sheet is a minimalistic version of a minimalist character sheet, and I'd pressed to say skyrim even has a character sheet.
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Everybody will tell you that whenever they played their first Bethesda game, that was peak gaming. Some will say Morrowind, some will say oblivion or Skyrim. The same could be said for GTa 3 up to to GTA 5. Or Halo.
BUT NOTHING WITHIN THE LAST TEN YEARS COULD INVOKE THAT FROM ANYONE.
I hate what women did to our hobby boys
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I've been playing halo since CE and 3 was peak
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I have unironically enjoyed every Bethsoft game I have played. I believe in Todd.
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True up to Starfield. Which even though I think is a bad game I still put in 90 hours.
Darnt Todd.
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Nah I started with oblivion and def liked morrowind more
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I don't think elder scrolls can compete in a post-elden ring world
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The open world was the worst part of that game and the character creator only exists for making something r-slurred
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To be fair, the morrowind and oblivion stay system was pretty r-slurred and the reasons why they shifted away are understandable. In both, your starting attributes define your character for the rest of the game. Thats good. But, your class skills define skills, when increased, will increade your level. Thats alright. Skills have an attribute associated with them, and when you increase that attribute it increases how much you can increase your attributes on level up. Any skill effects this, and if youre not paying attention and being very purposeful each level up youre in a situation where your attribute growth is shit. This is bad because thats not clearly explained and leads to an annoying amount of management because to maximize gains you need to level up certian skills to level up their attributes. All of this is decided at start in a sandbox rpg where a bad choice in character creation can make your character not great.
There was always perks for skills, skyrim made that the center piece, and added skill trees. This replaced neurodivergent race and attribute combinations but took descriptors away from nerds. You werent a cleric anymore or a mage, you were a dude who put x points into these three attributes and skill points into these things.
I think skyrim leaned to heavily on perk trees, it would have been more interesting to have quests and guilds give you unique perks. There are a couple that do, but theyre few and far between.
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Because you're a dumb BIPOC who doesn't want to spend any time learning how an unfamiliar system works.
!g*mers, zoomnigs are why we can't have nice things.
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The problem with Skyrim style leveling is just that most of the perks are bad or generic, and the experience is pretty flat. It's rare for your character to really feel stronger or more differentiated from leveling up. Just add starting classes and design better perks. You don't need arbitrary complexity to make the game better, you just need actual choices.
By the way, level scaling was always a solution in search of a problem. Normal RPGs have lower level areas and higher level areas, and have points in the main story or major quest lines where stronger enemies start appearing in the world. No need to add a bunch of calculations on top of that that will inevitably fail and frick up the experience
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Didn't read
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Honestly what would've perfected oblivions leveling is:
1. 5 levels in a skill would directly up the associated attribute by 1
2. retroactive application of endurance on HP (or not tying it to your level)
That's all it needs
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If you didn't do it earlier, then you don't get to reap the benefits.
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Yeah this is going to be one of the worst games ever made
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But will there be bear penetration?
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These goddarn filthy n'wahs ruin everything.
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I've heard BG3 is good but I've also heard it's like a TT RPG. Is it actually with my time as a person that likes turn based RPGs? I've never played D&D
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The DND combat system is really not fun in a single player video game experience. In DND, your hit rate is about 50%. The gambling element is fun when you're playing with actual people and trying to construct a narrative out of it. In vidya, it just feels like butt.
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I feel the opposite. Combat in tabletop D&D is excruciatingly slow and sucks the pacing out of everything. It makes way more sense when you're doing a roll every second in a video game.
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Ah well that's a shame I prefer single player experiences.
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@BWC beware, you're in for a scare...
Snapshots:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1g6h0x4/elder_scrolls_6_likely_wont_revert_to_fiddly/:
undelete.pullpush.io
ghostarchive.org
archive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
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I suck on my c*m sock during online meetings.
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Imagine still having faith about TES VI.
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