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Hot take, RPGs are innately shit.

Every RPG has bad gameplay and most of the time it is because they are RPGs.

Good gameplay isn't 100% objective but there are some fairly objective parts. Gameplay should foster experimentation and progressive improvement. Both of these conflict with core elements of RPGs.

RPGs have you make permanent decisions about your character, STR vs INT, mage vs warrior. The fact that you might have to replay hours of gameplay just to see what you could have done differently ensures that you stick with what you started out with even if it means save scumming your way through hard fights.

Another fun aspect of gameplay is progressively facing new challenges that build on old ones. Because most RPGs these days are open world and don't know where the player will go when they can't pace challenges properly and most of the time just scale enemies based off your level so that the challenge remains constant throughout the game.

Roguelikes are the fix for this. You reset every run and can experiment with a new build and have randomized elements so that you don't just stick with one build when you find a good one.

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you can play the games you personally find interesting instead of crying about the ones you don't

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>let people enjoy bad games!

:soycrytalking:

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The only true RPGs are Planescape, Morrowind, and the middle Ultima titles. I am very cool.

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But probably the most successful RPG computer game series of all time, Elder Scrolls, doesn't box you into mage vs warrior type shit, it lets you increase skills at anything by doing it.

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It does have permanent decisions at the start of the game. Skyrim is much better at this though.

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not a fan of the divinity series eh? semi-open would rpgs are where it's at my dude.

they can still build in progression, you get a variety of playstyles at once by having several different characters, and depth of mechanics simply dwarfs rogue-likes

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>RPGs have you make permanent decisions about your character, STR vs INT, mage vs warrior. The fact that you might have to replay hours of gameplay just to see what you could have done differently ensures that you stick with what you started out with even if it means save scumming your way through hard fights.

Solved decades ago with respec, which just about every RPG has these days.

>Another fun aspect of gameplay is progressively facing new challenges that build on old ones. Because most RPGs these days are open world and don't know where the player will go when they can't pace challenges properly and most of the time just scale enemies based off your level so that the challenge remains constant throughout the game.

Not all open world RPGs do this, I don't even know about most. The only big game I can think of off the top of my head that does this is retail WoW, most RPGs that do scale do it incrementally to strike a balance between giving the player a sense of progression and making the player basically invincible to 90% of enemies in the game.

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RLs are mainly RPGs :marseyconfused2:


:chad!black2: :marseybear::marseyrefrigerator:

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Yeah and they fix the investment issue

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Traditional ones yeah, but to give OP the benefit of the doubt he is probably taking about newer ones like FTL where the difficulty isn't a static increase via level and more the enemies cowtools versus your own, and can vary greatly run to run while level based difficulty doesn't

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Even the rpg themed ones solve the problems I'm talking about. Every death you make a new build informed by your experience in the precious runs.

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My favorite rpg is Minecraft

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:#marseyklenny3:

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Every RPG has bad gameplay and most of the time it is because they are RPGs.

This one is debatable. Obviously RPG's allow rhemselves to have worse gamplay than games that are all gameplay, like fighting games or shooters. But even in a VtMB which people say has shit combat I had real fun fighting using whatever mechnics the game had.

I don't think RPG's have bad combat actually, usually it's just mediocre. So how much this is an issue depends on the person.

Because most RPGs these days are open world and don't know where the player will go when they can't pace challenges properly and most of the time just scale enemies based off your level so that the challenge remains constant throughout the game.

That's true mainly for new RPG's.

Gothic, New Vegas (base game), Morrowind, all these games are open world but the enemies are not scaling with you.

Roguelikes are the fix for this

Rouglikes are not really RPG's though, at least thet are not the same type of RPG's. The commitment to a character in RPG games is part of the role playing, and the reason many people enjoy them. There is a lot to appriciate about a premade world that you experince through diffrent characters.

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What about MMORPGs?

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I only played Albion online which is more gear based than skill based so I don't know.

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