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EFFORTPOST Gender activists pressure a journal to remove a heckin bad faith research paper that claims gender dysphoria might be socially contiguous :marseytranspearlclutch:


TLDR :#marseywoah:

An article was published to a medical journal suggesting that there may be a link between the rapid explosion of gender dysphoria and social factors, especially for young girls. Gender activists seethe and call for the resignation of the editor of the journal and retraction of the article. The activists get told they can't remove the article becuase they're mad it disagrees with them. Activists seethe and pressure the journal to remove the paper based on a technicality


Background Infomation

Littman walked so Chuds could run

Before we talk about the current paper being published we have to discuss how this whole event was set up, and that starts with Lisa Littman


https://files.catbox.moe/xkz50u.jpg


Real chuds already know that Littman is a medical doctor that specializes in studying gender dysphoria and specifically those who detransition. She was even the individual that created the term "rapid onset gender dysphoria”. Littmans major controversy was when she published an article to PLos One titled "Rapid-onset gender dysphoria in adolescents and young adults: A study of parental reports". The study surveyed parents of kids who had transitioned and seemed to hypothesize that there could be social contagion, especially among young females, that contribute to gender dysphoria.

While the study itself had several prominent weakness, it was an interesting report that had potential to be expanded on. But backlash from Gender activists led to Littman's university to retracting support for her:


https://files.catbox.moe/jlwvyb.jpg


Along with the journal being republished with several corrections to make sure its readers know that the article is VERY limited in it's scope and is a weak study.

https://files.catbox.moe/9d3xkp.jpg

Surely, journal publishers would always be this scrutinizing when deciding which research papers to publish.

:m#arseyclueless:

But nonetheless that brings us up to date so we can discuss the similar issue that occured just recently but this time in [CURRENT YEAR]


The Controversy :marseype#arlclutch:

Current Year Problems

The controversy began in Late March of this year when an article titled "Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria: Parent Reports on 1655 Possible Cases" was published to the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior of Springer Nature by Suzanne Diaz and Michael Bailey.

The study explored the same ideas in the Littman study by to a greater extent. The original Littman paper surveyed 256 parents while Diaz and Baileys study surveyed 1655 parents. The paper was able to corroborate several of the findings in the original Littman Paper:

This data bolstered Littman’s findings about the onset of gender dysphoria after puberty, predominantly in girls, in conjunction with preexisting mental-health conditions, heavy social-media usage, and peer influence. They also corroborated Littman’s 2018 finding that an overwhelming majority (90 percent) of concerned parents are politically progressive, undermining the common narrative that criticisms and concerns about gender affirmation originate in conservatism.

:mars#eythinkorino:

As mentioned before, The Bailey and Diaz paper seeked to expand on Littmans original findings. And thats what they did:

Females are more than twice as likely to pursue social transition. However, among those who experienced gender dysphoria for at least one year, males were more likely to undergo hormonal interventions. Moreover, a majority of parents reported feeling coerced by gender specialists to affirm their child’s new identity and endorse his or her transition. Parents who facilitated their child’s social transition reported that the child’s mental health “deteriorated considerably after social transition,” and that their relationship with their child suffered.

The purpose of the paper was to provide evidence against the currently accepted approach of "gender affirmation" suggesting that "hey, maybe we should slow down and actually find more research before experimenting on the young kiddos". Obviously no one should have a problem with this.

:marseyclu#eless:


REEEEEEEEEE THIS IS A PROBLEM

One day passes after the article is published, and Bailey and Diaz recieve a list of questions from the executive committee of the International Academy of S*x Research (IASR) about their Institutional Review Board (IRB) ethics-approval process and with the journal raising “significant concerns about the ethical conduct and integrity of the editorial process” .

For those unaware IRB boards are committees that review research studies to ensure that they comply with applicable regulations, meet ethical standards, follow institutional policies, and protect research participants. Basically they make sure you have consent from patients before you go probing their bussys in the name of science.

Keep this all in mind, because we're going to touch on this point again.

Bad Faith

News of the Baileys and Diaz article begins to circulate and a group of hundred plus scientists (on the right side of history) draft a lengthy open letter to Springer Nature and the IASR. The letter was seething about how Diaz and Baileys study was heckin bad faith and could hurt the homo community:

The publication also raises concerns over scientific integrity. Despite mentioning longstanding academic critiques of research around “Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria,” it does not seriously engage with these critiques nor integrate insights drawn from those critiques into the study methodology, replicating the severe methodological and interpretive flaws of previous research

Publishing work on LGBTQ+ issues that does not meet the highest standards of academic and ethical rigor has caused a severe deterioration of the reputation of Archives of Sexual Behavior within LGBTQ+ research. By granting scientific legitimacy to articles that do not meet the highest standards of academic and ethical integrity, Archives of Sexual Behavior is not only undermining trust in science but also playing a distorting role in ongoing legislative and judicial debates over gender-affirming care in many countries including the United States. These actions impugn the respective reputations of Springer and IASR as a publisher and sponsoring organization.

NOOOOOOOO, If people don't trust the science we can't continue doing what we want to do

:#marseysoycry:

The aforementioned letter additionally demanded for the resignation of Springer Natures editor, Kenneth Zucker, and demanded for his replacement to be a person who understands the importance and has integrity on LGBTQ issues. The scientists threatened to withhold submissions to their journal if the journal didn't give into their pleas.

The severity of our scientific and ethical concerns calls for replacing Dr Kenneth Zucker as editor of Archives of Sexual Behavior. Until an editor who has a demonstrated record of integrity on LGBTQ+ matters and especially trans issues replaces Dr Zucker as editor, we will no longer submit to the journal, act as peer reviewers, or serve in an editorial capacity. We encourage our peers to do the same. If the situation is not remedied in a timely manner, we will consider terminating any involvement with the IASR and with members of Archives of Sexual Behavior’s editorial board.

While this letter makes the scientific community look like a bunch of cucks there was a counter protest to the letter that recieved over 2000 signatures telling the soycucks to shut up:

That same day, FAIR in Medicine, a nonpartisan professional network that advocates “the highest ethical standards in medical practice,” sponsored a counter-letter. This document underscored their support for Dr. Kenneth Zucker and called for an “academically robust and unbiased editorial process” at ASB and the “uninterrupted publication” of Diaz and Bailey’s study. Rather than capitulating to activists’ “censorious demands," FAIR in Medicine urged for an “open debate about the paper.” The counter-letter garnered over 2,000 signatures

Nice!

:#marseyclapping::!#chudsey:


We're So Back! :#marseywereback:

Now back Diaz and Bailey.

It was stated earlier that Bailey and Diaz conducted their research with survey response answers from willing volunteers, but even in this case, anything that involves collecting data from study participants requires consent per IRB policy before research ever begins and the IRB can't retrospectively approve already collected data. But due to Diaz not being associated with the University he was able to circumvent these polices and just have Bailey be a coauthor on the paper.

For Nature and Springer their policy on IRB approval porcess states:

a study has not been granted ethics committee approval prior to commencing. . . . The decision on whether to proceed to peer review in such cases is at the Editor’s discretion.

Hence, you can underatand why the scientists before were calling for the resignation of Spingers current editor. But it appeared that the activists attempts to remove the article were futile and that Diaz and Bailey wouldn't have their article retracted


It's over :#marseyitsover:

After a continuous pressure campaign from homo activists, Diaz and Bailey recieve an email from Springer telling them to get fricked and that they should have gotten EXPLICIT consent beforehand and that they have no choice but to remove the paper:

The participants of the survey have not provided written informed consent to participate in scholarly research or to have their responses published in a peer reviewed article. Additionally, they have not provided consent to publish to have their data included in this article.

At this point it's clear that the activists couldn't get the article removed on the basis of heckin wrong think but rather on this technicality.

Bailey and Diaz were going to have their article removed no matter what but they were provided an option to prepare a statement that disagreed or agreed with the decision that would be included with the retraction:

Bailey raised three major objections to Springer’s decision to retract the paper. First, he contested the grounds for retraction as an ever-changing “moving target.” Initially, Springer’s concern hinged on a potential ethics violation arising from the absence of IRB approval brought to its attention by activists. When this challenge proved to be without merit, the focus abruptly shifted to concerns about the informed consent of the study’s participants.

Second was Springer’s assertion that the study’s participants did not provide “written consent to participate in scholarly research or to have their responses published in a peer reviewed article.” As Bailey explained, the parents who took part in the survey were enthusiastic about contributing data related to ROGD, given the scarcity of information on this novel presentation of gender dysphoria. The introduction of the survey, taken by all participating parents, mentions the dearth of data on the topic and the need for parents to “seek out this information on our own” to “help us gain a better understanding” of this new phenomenon. Upon completion of the survey, parents were informed that their “answers will help us gain a better understanding of which children are more vulnerable to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria and what we can do to help them better.” The data, parents were told, would be made public online once a sufficiently large sample size was achieved.

And finally, the funniest point was Bailey pointed out that Springer’s "consent policy" wasn't even applied consistently:

Bailey pointed out Springer’s inconsistent application of their putative consent policy. He cited “a slew of ‘scholarly publications’ [by Springer] based on survey research in which the respondents did not provide explicit permission for ‘scholarly research’ use—and often apparently did not provide consent for any research purpose at all.” Examples included at least six publications using data from a health survey conducted by the American College Health Association that “included intensely personal questions relating [to] substance use, sexual behaviors, and other highly sensitive topics.”

:#marseyxd:


It's never been more over :#marseydeadinside2:


https://files.catbox.moe/el8k8u.jpg


Link to tweet

Tragically, even with Baileys argument, Springer went ahead and retracted the article on the basis of Bailey and Diaz not receiving proper consent. But they did thank Bailey for making them aware of the other articles that didn't recieve proper consent and now they're being investigated was well (lmao)

While it does seem like a common L for the chuds, Bailey and Diaz are planning on submitting their manuscript to another journal that's (hopefuly) less ideologically driven.

In conclusion, never stop trusting the science and Thank you for reading!

:#marseywave:


Additional Readings

[Anatomy of a Scientific Scandal](https://www.city-journal.org/article/anatomy-of-a-scientific-scandal

379
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GOOD post

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Thank you!

:#marseyfingerhearts:

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very readable, lots of short sentences, lots of marseys

A+++++++++++++++++++++++ seller v v good

!

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It's true, having an orange cat between every paragraph unironically makes this better reading.

Might be a sign of r-sluration but hey if it works it works :#marseystroke:

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:marseyagreefast::marseyembrace:

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A+ post dawg

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Thank you friend

:#marseylove:

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What are the odds if you cite this paper people will smug at you that it's been retracted :marseythinkorino:

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The odds are the same as the sun coming up tomorrow. They're going to rewrite biology or at least attempt to we're living in a post reality world

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What do you mean doing this still doesn't make me a female? :#marseyneutered:

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You dont need to do a lot to dismiss this paper

Their survey is literally from a website called: ParentsofROGDKids.com

And this is how the survery request looks like:

Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) is a new phenomenon that is only now beginning to be recognized.

The so-called gender clinics are not forthcoming with information about demographics or mental health issues of clients who seek out their services. Nor do they publish information on patient outcomes.

The task is left up to us, the parents, to seek out this information on our own.

Please help us gain a better understanding of this emotionally devastating and physically traumatizing, yet increasingly common phenomenon.

Who Should Complete this Survey

If your child:

Had a relatively normal childhood without showing any signs of discomfort with their gender, and

Suddenly, seemingly out of the blue, decided they identified as the opposite gender, or some other “gender”

Please take the time to fill out this survey. It takes about 10–15 min to complete, a bit longer if you write comments (which are very helpful!).

*Don’t worry if the survey skips over some questions. It is designed to skip over questions that do not apply to you.

All responses will be kept strictly confidential.

That being said. The reason they got retracted is so much BS lol. They had gotten written consent for participation on the study and that the study will be published but they got retracted cuz they did not get explicit consent that it would be a journal. :marseyitsover:

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90% of the trans papers are just web surveys if you look into them

idk how this passes as science but it's good enough for Reddit/Twitter

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"""Trans science""" is literally just cope.
:ramonajak: "I'm a researcher from an openly pro-LGBT thinktank. Do you feel powerful and brave after a psychiatrist indulged in your delusions gave you gender affirming care?"
______________________________________________________________________ "Y-yes.." :!chudette:
:ramonajak: "Secondly, do you think about suicide less now or will you let the Christo-Fascists win and use your answer to genocide trans people and re-elect Trump?"
_____________________ "O-of course! I never think about suicide anymore...." :!chudette:
:soyjakfat:"Yet ANOTHER peer-reviewed study!" | "The science is settled! ...Where's Daisy?" :!soyjakanimeglasses: | :marseyplushieswinging:
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It is OWNING the IRRATIONAL leftist trans MENACE with FACTS and SHODDY METHODOLOGY.

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Darn, it really is wingnuts all the way down :marseynouautism:

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Every study is biased towards a goal.

"Did you parents have literally any objection whatever or so much as cough while you came out?"

Yes? PARENTAL PRESSURE TO DETRANSITION.


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17191743323420358.webp

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No one gives a single frick about 99.99% of papers, so this is full-on, not even partial, Streisand Effect in action from the heckin' gud-thinkers.

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141%

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Every day I am in awe of the power of trains. Anything slightly critical of transgenderism can disappear in just a few tweets.

I'm not sure even religion ever went this far in the US.

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Even in this case, the counter letter to the first letter had significantly more signatures and the journal still managed to cave under pressure, which shocked me. I can’t even think of a time when such a marginal group had such an enormous amount of influence backing it

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such an enormous amount of influence backing it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Pritzker

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16869316783702457.webp

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>Jewish

>Transbian

>Billioniare

:marseykneel:

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Interesting lady


Political party

Republican (formerly)[1]

Spouses

Ayelet ben Mordechai

(divorced)

Lisa I. Goren (divorced)

Erin E. Solaro (m. 2020

Military career

Allegiance

United States

Service/branch

United States Army

Seal of the United States Army National Guard.svg Illinois Army National Guard

Years of service

1974–1977 (U.S. Army)

1979–1985 (U.S. Army)

1985–2001 (ILARNG)

Rank

Lieutenant Colonel

Pritzker earned airborne badges from Israel, Russia, Canada, the Netherlands, and Great Britain, as well as from Poland; according to Steven Mrozek, "Most memorable of these was a parachute jump at the North Pole with the Russians in 1993.

In 1996, she incorporated Tawani Enterprises, where she served as president and CEO,[3] a business entity with current stated purpose as a "private wealth management company established to manage the personal wealth, philanthropic endeavors, and military interests ... "

In 1995, Pritzker created the Tawani Foundation, and in 2003, she founded the Pritzker Military Library, both dedicated to the understanding and support of the "citizen soldier."

In 2013, the Foundation donated $25 million to Norwich University, in Northfield, Vermont, the school credited with developing and establishing the first Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) program in the country

Pritzker created the Tawani Foundation in 1995,[21] which aims "to enhance the awareness and understanding of the importance of the Citizen Soldier; to preserve unique sites of significance to American and military history; to foster health and wellness projects for improved quality of life; and to honor the service of military personnel, past, present and future."

————-

The military support stuff seems pretty based tbh

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Jesus Christ what is it with trains and the Military?

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:#autism:

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Loss of sense of identity after separation from the military leading them to radically redefine themselves

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That's nice sweaty. Why don't you have a seat in the time out corner with Pizzashill until you calm down, then you can have your Capri Sun.

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>Pritzker says her most memorable experiences in life were in Israel in October 1973 when she witnessed events of the Yom Kippur War.[3]

Conspiracy chads stay winning

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I can’t even think of a time when such a marginal group had such an enormous amount of influence backing it

The goyim remain ignorant :#marseyshapiro:

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I can’t even think of a time when such a marginal group had such an enormous amount of influence backing it

umm... white people?

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Every day I am in awe of the power of trains. Anything slightly critical of transgenderism can disappear in just a few tweets.

and in the same breath these people say they are literally being genocided. they say this from the white house lawn with their tits out. they say this from the high ranking government positions. they say this while holding their million dollar sponsorship product.

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This is exactly how you get actually genocided, when the majority gets extremely fed up feeding into support for radical solutions meanwhile moderates ignore any actual violence against them because they've boy cried wolf far too many times for it to be believable.

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This was exactly why people in the Weimar Republic were so willing to kill the Jews. But you're not allowed to say that because any suggestion that the Jews could have avoided the Holocaust by behaving differently is "victim-blaming." So instead of accurately diagnosing the social dynamics of why the Holocaust happened, we're supposed to believe that it was all because a bunch of Germans suddenly and inexplicably became cartoonishly evil.

:#marseysurejan:

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!jidf

lmao this BIPOC is legit r-slurred

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You absolute r-slur, Germans acted as they did because of economic and geopolitical considerations. Jews were genocided as an easily accessible scapegoat and the German perception of Jewish people was based on multi-decade (and in some cases multi-century) delusions

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they say it while stealing your luggage at the airport.

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:quote: you can't arrest me for stealing! I'M A BRAVE TRANS WOMAN AND IT'S GENOCIDE, YOU BIGOT! :quote:

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It's simple. Going trans turns you into the lifelong medical case. Thousands upon thousands of shekels to medical industry per train. Anything that puts any doubt upon any of that is opposed not only by some activists but also by this whole machine. Remember when they acted like painkillers were totally safe and non-addictive?

This is also why legacy foids are getting BTFOed everywhere. Being legacy foid is free, but trains are paying monthly rent just to exist. Of course capitalism is going to favor the latter. "You'll own nothing" applied to the very body.

But the real r-slurs are rightoids. They gave absolute primacy to capital, expecting it to support conservative values forever. Now that woke progressivism is proving more profitable, they have nothing.

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Reminder that all minor :marseytrain: healthcare is based on "the Dutch protocol" which only measured if puberty blockers blocked puberty (lol), not whether they led to better outcomes. :sciencejak:

The study actually had a death but they just didnt include it lmao :marseydemonicgrin:

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lol the OG Dutch protocol people don't even recommend it anymore

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>inconvenient past history handwaved away

Sounds about right :marseyfrenchitsover:

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The seethe has already spread a lot on twitter. Lots of "Bailey literally wants to genocide all the trains" tier takes. These are the same people who are telling you to trust the hecking science

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Bailey was literally helping :!marseytrain:s get their surgery approved back in the 90's. You set one toe out of line and you're a pariah.

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Bailey was literally helping :!marseytrain:s get their surgery approved back in the 90's

The absolute state of foids lmao they really deserve :marseytrain2:s taking over their domain

trans lives matter

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Michael Bailey is a man, you r-slur.

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:#tayshrug::#tayscrunch:

trans lives matter

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Taylor Swift:marseysad:

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This also involves Kenneth Zucker as the editor, which makes sense because he got shit canned and his clinic shut down by :marseytrain2: lies, just because he didn't do gender affirming care for ALL children. Like he would 100% set a kid on the :marseytrain2: path, but he had a psych review first and you could not qualify as a :marseytrain2: and him say, "your kid just wants to hang out with his sisters more or is gay or something."

https://www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html

https://www.thecut.com/tags/kenneth-zucker/

Was some fascinating early shit in the saga from 2015. He won in court against the leaf government too, but the clinic stayed shut down.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-doctor-fired-from-gender-identity-clinic-says-he-feels-vindicated/

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Kill all s*x scientists

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>not posting any linkes

plz do better

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It's amazing how one pandemic and a bunch of dudes in dresses were able to completely dilute and render meaningless the term Science in under 5 years. And here I was told it was religion that's anti-science.

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Dudes rock

trans lives matter

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Least histrionic dramanaut

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Histrionic: Excessively dramatic or emotional; affected.

I really do hope that you're not being sarcastic, because if you are I'm insulted

:#marseyindignant:

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Of course not. You're doing great :@sphincterpat:

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:marseyreading:

“Sorry Chuds. Scientists of the right side of history have concluded that ROGD is a myth perpetrated by bad actors so any paper citing it as an actual phenomenon can be hand waved to the side as unscientific. Please don’t question the matter farther”.

Really we are going to have to rely on non anglo europoor reasearch since there’s less ideological capture of the institutions and there’s an actual concern for what it means for tax payers if all of the sudden they are having to foot the bill for all kinds of gender affirming care.

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It does appear that some of the Euro countries are rolling back access to gender care especially in the case of minors. It seems they were a little too keen on jumping on the gender affirmation train

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lol TRAs are just calling this "american influence" and "conservative overreaction"

:#usarentfree:

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Which is funny because you could make the exact same argument for the other side of the matter.

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:#marseyravegigaspeed:

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>Socialized systems are our…savior?

:#chudconcerned:

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Always has been. See signature.


Part of the fiscally-left, socially-right movement. Join today! :marseyexcited:

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Nha, I support social progressivism, just don't let wokies, crazy "activists" and people who makes a living in the ivory tower and corrupt institutions define what being "socially left" is.

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Real social progressivism has never been tried imo :marseyhomofascist:

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what would you call that? national socialism?

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/16869282937011216.webp

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https://media.giphy.com/media/WoF3yfYupTt8mHc7va/giphy.webp

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Great post as expected Nipponsensei. I saw Vaush seething about this on twitter under the main tweet recently and it made me inexplicably angry:

https://x.com/VaushV/status/1669401342878846977

Here’s a hot tip for your next tabloid, maybe don’t try to legitimize a fake medical condition by exclusively interviewing people you found from websites for parents who already believed in the fake medical condition [6500 Likes]

None of that was a reason for the retraction. [12 Likes]

That’s true. In addition to being unscientific propagandistic hacks, the writers also failed to secure written consent from the participants to participate in or be published in a scientific study, which is an insanely low bar to trip over. [1100 Likes]


You need to realize that one of them is an acclaimed academic with a plethora of citations and colleagues that will vouch for him - the other is a washed-up internet streamer who is just r-slurred enough to open .pdfiles. I guess you literally cannot wait against the cultural transgeist of today's research. :marseyshrug:

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Thank you friend! This effort post was a spur of the moment thing that i did at work for the first 3 hours of the day lmao. I was worried it would be a bit rushed but im pretty content with how it came out.

Political streamers and their sense of over inflated egos have done immeasurable damage to the online sphere. You have groups of individuals that are listening to these less idiotic that masquerade as "intellectuals" and you just hear the same garbage takes over and over again. Its all so tiresome

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Political streamers are proxies for the viewers to express grievances, essentially a bunch of powerless people pool resources and attention to be able to have a prominent voice in the discourse. That streamer then delivers owns to Ben Shapiro or Matt Walsh and is able to get an actual response rather than being lost the shuffle. It's Twitch plays Pokemon but for the politically powerless.

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Great write up - I’m too poor to pin it :marseysad:

@TracingWoodgrains - is Bussy already doing a write up on this.

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I'm a bit jaded; he's had some pure misses on Citibike and shoplifting lately.

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Ppl are still seething over it in the primo threads.

Funny he kept stepping on rakes like that.

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Then him getting upset at the backlash and retreating behind, "This is so stupid, why are we even talking about this?"

The pod is literally called Blocked and Reported.

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"This is so stupid, why are we even talking about this?" sums up 100% of barpod stories

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“Why are we talking about petty internet drama on our petty internet drama podcast” :marseyclueless:

I think his broader point that it’s crazy these spats are national news but I think in that case it’s only because the instigators were filming lol.

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I seethed and dropped them after that. :marseyno:

I don't really understand it, he plants his flag on this controversial gender war thing and can stand up those grifters.

But when it comes to standing up to race grifters it's a bridge too far for him.

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Bussy is still a lib at heart and really only chud adjacent on the modern gender narrative shit because he got thrown under the bus by his fellow libs for barely stepping out of line like 6 years ago on the matter.

I guess I am not too surprised that he came to the conclusion that he did on stuff outside of gender war stuff more or less.

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It's been tough to realize that even though he's a noticer on gender and whatever, he's still a limp-wristed straggy lib when it comes to blax and petty crime.

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aka normal human being

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what'd he say?

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What did he do, did he defend the youths?

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This "condenses" it:

https://old.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/13t7c75/bar_botched_the_citi_bike_karen_story_what_they

Overall, the community came down pretty hard on the teens being at fault, in the wrong here, and using anti social behavior with their dibs claims to the bikes. The woman was unfairly canceled and accosted by the public, etc

Jesse tried to be even-handed (teenage boys are jerks, etc) and didn't really come down hard enough on one side where the community clearly saw a right and wrong side to this issue.

Jesse dug his heels in at the backlash, didn't engage with the points (Katie called him out multiple times teasing/not-teasing for not putting any effort into it), and dismissed it as race bait, not worth talking over.

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lol probably, it's all over my twitter feed so i'm sure he has Strong Opinions on it

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does he lurk here?

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nope, only me

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:#!marseysurejan:

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