https://x.com/esjesjesj/status/1880053815606669410
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— evan loves worf (@esjesjesj) January 17, 2025
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What's the "nazi" part of Frieren? When she calls for total demon
death? 
!anime
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not really nazi or fashy but it is pretty poor writing to just have a fantasy race be evil with no nuance and might possibly educate us about the writers biases. it also just feels like its setting up something as an objective fact only to knock it down later but no it just doubles down on it, really odd. i think there is some merit to the criticism but as usual the way people go about it is just way too over-the-top and offputting. once again proving fandoms are awful
idrc about this shit in the end though. frieren still cute. show still make brain feel good. OP/ED songs still go hard. !anime
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It actually proved itself to be good writing because of the neurodivergent leftoids ascribing politics to the show:
It became self fulfilling peak despite it being painfully laid out.
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i think youre part of the problem by ascribing more political bullshit to it than the author intended
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He isn't applying any politics to the anime. Do you understand what he is saying?
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the final leap that good and evil must be political only comes from leftists. This says more about them tbh
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But that is what the author intended lol, simple, one dimensional monsters.
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The author probably didn't intend it to be political, but leftoids will obviously see it as "problematic" when they see a human-like race portrayed as intrinsically irredeemable and that people who even try to give them a chance are fundamentally naive.
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Evil beings being irredeemably evil is only really recently seen as bad writing. Historically Manichean morality in fiction was the norm (probably because of Christianity tbh) and every villain being sympathetic to some degree is now to a lot of fictions detriment. Manichean or grey morality are both neutral when it comes to writing quality.
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Yep, we've gone full circle from "demons may be good" being unexpected/subversive in fiction to "no demons really are bad even when you're nice to them" being unexpected/subversive.
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Yeah, the first example I can think of is Paradise Lost, where Satan is the protag/MC. You basically follow him and sorta root for him because he's like a flawed human protagonist. But in one scene they're all sitting there plotting and God just turns them all into snakes. One of the points was just how unfathomable and alien an all-powerful,all-knowing being really is.
I thought Wicked-the book by the cute twink-was a really good example of this in modern times, but you're right, it's become way too cliched at this point, infecting Lit, DnD and everything else.
!chuds
I dunno, is there a lit ping group?
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I gotta reread Paradise Lost now that I've gone through more of the old testament chapter by chapter cus
Old testament God really was a fricking hoe scarer. When I read Paradise Lost I read it with the new testament "god is love" deal in mind, the expectation of an unreliable narrator in Satan, but at least every OT book has some unfathomably cruel/straight wtf shit lol
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The redeemed villain was a thing as far back as the medieval romances.
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Hard disagree, the demons in Frieren are effective because they subvert the "purely socioeconomics factors" bullshit in modern fantasy where all "races" (barely allowed to call them this anymore) are basically well-meaning, just that some of them are misunderstood or oppressed or having different ways of knowing or w/e. The demons is Frieren are portrayed not as simply sadistically malevolent, but as intelligent creatures that are fundamentally incapable of feeling love, sympathy, etc (and this is explored in more depth in a future arc) in an almost-pitiable fashion. Any heroic attempt to just give them a chance fails tragically. Frieren comes off as "cold" for saying this rather than just being a cute "can't we all just get along" waifu but ends up being proven right every time.
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I was about to drop this or something like it, but thanks for saying it so I don't have to. I hate the misunderstood uwu that pervades all westernfantasy shit these days.
!chuds !weebs
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This is how we ended up getting the orcs in Amazon's Lord of the Rangs tending to babies and caring about each other
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valid take tbh
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Oh, well, some beings are simply evil and will do whatever
to kill all humans.
Total Demon
Death! 
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yeah like me. im coming for you first
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also that wasnt me saying im the victim that was me making my plans to make victims out of all of humanity clear !cuteandvalid !cuteandinvalid !edgelords
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It's good to have goals!
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i dont think its neat to have zero nuance with your fantasy race. more power to you if you do ig
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The nuance comes not from the nature of the race itself (the demons are all basically sociopaths) but from how different characters (including the demons themselves) process and react to this.
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which is why people shouldn't listen to you.
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Noo don't!
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As far as I understood, demons are predatory animals that evolved to mimic human behavior. So they are like lions that can dress up and make an argument as to why they should eat you; they are not "evil", they are just hungry and humans happen to be their prey.
But this is kinda hard to take seriously as demons appear to have every feature the other intelligent races have (like personalities, and egos). I guess it's just easier for the author to have villains that are 100% irredeemable and OK to kill (or genocide
)
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This show has been made by libertarians. The author is a libertarian, the entire staff are libertarians. This is the only reason you can possibly watch it and think it actually good.
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Well it's anime, so that goes without saying.
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No, it doesnt. Even with animes i enjoy: Evangelion or Paranoia Agent. The producers of this, are just libertarians.
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Are you implying that Evangelion is not produced by libertarians?
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lmao
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it also just makes like no sense. they clearly have intelligence but somehow havent realized the way the way they keep their species alive is just to stop eating humans? i can see why some of them wouldnt be down with that because they're portrayed as overly prideful and egotistic but like saying there are zero exceptions is just boring. fine plot device ig, makes for lame villains.
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If they were created with an insatiable appetite for human flesh I could see this working, and then you could have the tragedy of a thinking sapient being being forced to be evil because humans are heroin to them.
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If they were philosophical zombies or had an evil god who killed them whenever one of them tried to be nice or good it might make more sense. But a race evolving to only target the alpha predators makes no sense. If they were created by an evil god to torment humanity that would explain the whole thing. Why are they like that? Because some gods are peepees.
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This is goddarn why people think trains have ruined fantasy. Because they have. Absolutely shit opinion 0/10
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always evil races are keyed
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I prefer my always evil races as being the creations and victims of dark goda. Like the Skaven. Why aren't there good Skaven? Because the Great Horned rat eats them.
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No redemption for cuties essentially = Nazism
Its why anime nerds chimped out about Overlord when the EVIL SKELETON LICH and his menagerie of DEMONS, MONSTERS AND WORSE tortured and killed cuties and made an elf into a living cockroach breeding womb.
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The Overlord guy is evil???
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I hate iseaki so much.
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I just saw this discussion a day ago on a totally different twitter thread lol.
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Besides the demon thing maybe, the newest manga arc focuses on the human "Empire" whose operatives have a sorta fashy aesthetic, so that could also be relevant.
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