Serious Question: Are you guys capable of discussing crime without being racist? r/berkeley discusses

If a criminal is white/not black or brown, the comments are rather tame. "My heart goes out to the victim" or "we need to protect our students". If a criminal is unidentified, the comments will speculate that the offender was black and complain about black people. > If a criminal is black, the comments are filled with racist 4chan slogans.

In the past week I've encountered the following phrases:

(1) Never relax around blacks

(2) 13/50 or FBI violent crime stats by race

(3) Usual suspects

(4) No one wants to say it, but it's always THOSE people

(5) Pattern Recognition

(6) Calls to racially profile suspects

(7) CRT

(8) Calls to shoot/murder black suspects

Most of these are far-right or Nazi-adjacent talking points.

As I understand it, most /r/berkeley users have little to no experience with the black community. You guys only see black people when they're on the news, or homeless and living on the street. The immediate jump into racist and dehumanizing rhetoric is not productive or rational. What are you accomplishing?

I'm a black student at Cal, and I can say that this sort of rhetoric directly harms the few black students here. I've been racially profiled in Berkeley/SF so often I've lost count. I've been questioned by security guards at company interviews multiple times. > They would pester me with questions like "What are you doing here? Where are you going? Who are you here to see?".

On one occasion, I had security stop me THREE TIMES in a public space within 45 minutes, just to question me. I was sitting on my phone, doing absolutely nothing.

I'm frequently followed when shopping by store employees. I was asked to leave the Walgreens on Telegraph after spending "too long" in a single aisle. The store associate was eyeing me down and eventually said "If you're not going to buy anything, you need to leave!" I was checking my phone to see if I was picking up the right hair product.

I wasn't even allowed to use the self-checkout once at a store (while everyone else in the store was), and was accused of trying to steal what was in my cart. The store associate screamed "HEY! YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT" and shooed me away, grabbing the items in my cart and finishing the transaction for me. It was bizarre and humiliating.

My black male friend often has people cross to the other side of the sidewalk or speed up their walking pace just to get away from him. In broad daylight. It's even more common with the elderly. He once described it as being treated like he's some sort of beast or animal.

It's psychologically damaging to be treated this way.

If you want to discuss crime, do so in a way that isn't perpetuating dangerous and racially-charged rhetoric. Please. Believe it or not, you can discuss black criminality without being racist. You guys clearly want to delude yourselves into thinking black people are protected and coddled by the state and larger society — well we aren't. Not even close. You just have no idea what it's like to be Black.

These comment sections are massive circlejerks led by people with zero knowledge of the black experience. If you don't have anything productive to add, please stop talking.

TLDR: This subreddit frequently uses racist, alt-right or Nazi-adjacent talking points when discussing Black/Brown crime. Not only are these conversations unproductive, but they contribute to the frequent racial suspicion and profiling Black students and professionals face in the Bay Area. This rhetoric hurts real people, and it's traumatic to read. Discuss crime like the mature, educated adults you're all supposed to be.

Just go to therapy. You're black and a woman. You can vent your struggles to your therapist. We honestly don't care. Also check out the DOJ statistics on black crimes and tell me we aren't wrong.

Thank you for your kind words. /s

I use data to make most decisions You likely don't agree with that

" I use data"🤓👆

/u/TNDPodcast weighs in

Is it racist to notice patterns?

Are you capable of rational thought?

chvds obliterated

Its all about statistics. Blacks make up 12.2% of the US population but account for 51% of all murder arrests and 53% of all robbery arrests.

Do I think what has happened to the OP is right, I do not. But facts & statistics matter in determining perceptions.

I frankly feel like I can't have a real conversation with you guys if you keep parroting the same exact talking points with no actual thought or effort put into your comments. If you want to make a real fleshed out point, maybe we can talk. I can't just respond to numbers, that's not an argument or an opinion to discuss. Did you forget the part where you actually have to analyze a statistic?

This comment makes no sense—you are criticizing someone for just stating facts without interpretation? His "argument" is that black people are arrested for murder and robbery more frequently per capita than non-blacks. There's nothing to dispute (assuming the "fact" is actually correct), it just is. You can interpret it however you want, but it is ridiculous to act as if a statement of fact brings no value to the conversation.

It's not an argument in itself. It's supposed to be the basis for an argument, one which was never made. You guys can't act like you're making a productive point by saying "of the people who commit this fairly rare crime, a disproportionate number are black." What am I supposed to make of that? That it's rational to racially profile Black people like me in public? That assuming Black people are violent or criminally-inclined, on average, is fair? Neither of those? What does this add to my post, if there isn't a greater point made?

Alternate perspective, what about the victims? These discussions always seem to take the perspective of the offending group, but shouldn't be focus more on what the victims have to say?

It is our natural right to live, and one of the skills that enables that, as you mentioned, is pattern matching. As a POC that comes from an ethnic group that has been endlessly brutalized and attacked by the African American community, I'm extremely willing to take any steps necessary to protect my life, as is my right.

While I sympathize with the physiological impact of being treated this way, it is not my fault, the blame lies on your own community for allowing and encouraging the endless violence against other peoples.

The problem as OP stated is "most /r/berkeley users have little to no experience with the black community." What pattern are you recognizing? I think OP's point is when you have little exposure and believe that you're ethnic group has "been endlessly brutalized and attacked by the African American community," you generalize black skin (regardless of their morals, socioeconomic background, and education). You start believing black = danger, and your subconscious behaviors follow. This damages black people like OP, a black Cal student trying to live just like anyone else. You essentially victimize an individual based on a group generalization.

"the problem is... racism which is... bad" thanks for your insight bro

I have nothing against sympathizing with victims of a crime. If the only way you understand sympathizing with victims is by perpetuating racialized rhetoric, that's not healthy or productive.

"Pattern recognition" is another term for bias. Bias may be easy to default to, but that doesn't make it inherently right or moral. You have the ability to reason and push against your most base instincts, don't you?

If you were offered a choice to play russian roulette, or not to play russian roulette, with no reward for playing, what would you do?

This is how the people who are terrorized daily by blacks see their situation. We aren't going to be gaslamp into not taking precautions to preserve our lives. I'm not sorry about hurting your feelings when my life is at risk.

" terrorized by blacks" do you hear yourself?

If there are 100 skittles, and 10 of them are poisonous mixed in randomly, would you pick one out to eat? Now what if a good number of those poisonous skittles are a different color from the rest? Given this new information, update your priors accordingly, from a random distribution to one more informed on statistics.

But in this case, only 0.3% of Black people commit these types of crimes (compared to 0.1% of whites). You support punishing the other 99.7% for the actions of a few. Yet wouldn't do the same to white folks over a 0.2% difference.

There's more comments but I cbf

White people are racist. That's it. It's unfortunate but true. They're either racist, or not actively working on their anti-blackness, which means they're racist. From an older millennial who has survived 3 PWI's - my advice to you is to simply stop caring about white people. All of them. What you described is very much traumatic and they don't care. They'll continue to gas light and say that racism isn't real, that black folks aren't being killed simply for being black, that slavery is over and that we should just "get over it". It's because they're racist and hate back folks and this fact about white people will never change. Get your degree and get out.

I do feel for the struggles you face on a consistent basis. But when you give an anecdote saying you were sitting on your phone in a public place, and security stopped you 3 times within 45 minutes, is there something more to that? Honest question.

OP is also part of the "Usual suspects"

Serious question are white middle to upper class people committing the crimes?

Those are the crimes that impact the most people though.

The crimes being discussed? The property crimes and quality of life crimes?

yea

To be fair no one looks for nazis when they use an atm after dark

Nobody uses an atm after dark.

Are you trying to make a point?

Kill whitey

The only reason it's mentioned and funny is cuz yall care so much. Half those aren't racist they could mean anything.

But if I said something about white people "as a joke", then I'm problematic

That's racist of you to say that. But fr pls give example.

"The only reason it's (white ppl jokes) mentioned and funny is because yall care so much."

Well, because yall did it to yourselves.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43

It's clear that the black population, 14% of the population on average is responsible for 26% of total crimes, 50+% for murder and robbery, 30+% for burglary and aggravated assault and a bunch of other ones. We can't help you if you don't want help. I've seen 16 yo completely gave up on school and joined gangs because it's "cool". I've made great friends in the marine corps that are black, and some of them come from shitty areas that are filled with gangs and illegal activities, yet they didn't frick themselves over by becoming part of the problem. Until the black community actually want to make a change for the better, it's gonna be like this. It sucks but it is what it is

But really… they say the most racist shit then cry because you won't have an "intellectual" conversation with a Nazi

It's literally nothing but static in their brains. But if I came here and said all white peoples are dangerous (because of mass shootings), then I need to "uphold peace" and not generalize

No one said all black people are dangerous, but y'all fail as a community to properly educate your own

That 2019 statistics is outdated, crime has significantly decreased since COVID

Nice kind of like how Donald has "black friends". Lies, darned lies, and statistics. Did it to themselves? That's one revisionist way of describing a history that still has multiple generations breathing that witnessed segregation and Jim Crow.

Are the stats accurate regarding homicide rates per capita or not? Look into murders of uber/lyft drivers in the past 5 years. It's about 95% African American perpetrators. We shouldn't ignore reality because it makes people uncomfortable, considering the group that is "oppressed" is actually committing more violence than any "oppressor". Be intellectually honest

" Be intellectually honest" says the guy who claims the Central Park Five were guilty. Not wasting much breath on you. Get fricked.

[snip]

Yeah and poverty didn't just decide to stay in the black community cuz it wanted to, and certainly being poor is not an excuse for committing crime either. People can complain all they want but the truth is poor people have the best chance of making it out of poverty than any other country in the world. Education is free until college, then you can learn a skill and find a job or continue with your education for more opportunities in the future, IF YOU DONT HAVE A TRUCK LOAD OF CRIME HISTORY.

[snip]

Many of the people making those comments do so on burners and likely have no affiliation with the university whatsoever. They hate us cuz they ain't us

I'm POC and went to Berkeley and I see nothing wrong with these comments since they're usually true.