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If any of you think Trump/Vance's meltdown in the oval office was based, you're unironically r-slurred or Russian
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Russia is shit scared of NATO, so they won't let Ukraine join as part of sky peace deal. Trump's strategy is to play friendly with Russia to try to get them to compromise. Given that Ukraine cannot win the war and it's basically a huge sink for lives and money I get Trump's position, but I don't think it's going to work.
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why would russia be "scared shit" of nato? nato is a defensive treaty, not an offensive treaty.
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Russia sees NATO as basically being an anti-Russia union. To that end they won't accept states in their sphere of influence joining.
Basically Putin is throwing a tantrum because Ukraine moved from being pro-Russia to pro-Europe.
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what i don't understand is why we give a shit? frick russia and their delusions. nato isn't gunna attack russia regardless of what they think, so let ukraine join nato and keep it's sovereignty.
what is russia gunna do? get annihilated by trying to respond with nukes??
the problem with dems being pro-ukrainian is they totally kittyfooted this. they want to claim support, but unwilling to actually put any real weight behind it behind sending just enough support to keep ukraine from falling apart.
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Ukraine produces most of Europe's grain, which is partly why they'd been trying to buddy up with them.
Russia isn't going to leave Ukraine unless they promise not to join NATO, which is obviously stupid as it basically means Russia can invade again whenever they want. It's all geopolitics and there's no good solution.
Naturally nobody wants to put boots on the ground because it's another Vietnam - propping up a relatively unpopular government against the inevitable.
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i'm sorry, ur claiming most ukrainians want to join russia???
and there is a fine solution: telling russia to go stuff it and let ukraine join a defensive treaty against actual dictorial tyranny??? russia doesn't have the manpower to stand up to nato, it can barely invade a nationa 1/5th it's size, that is absurd.
letting politicians determine geolpolitics is so god darn r-slurred. maybe we deserve WW3
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Where the frick did you get that from?
You can't join a defensive alliance while actively being invaded, that's not how defensive agreements work. NATO doesn't actually want to fight WWIII with Russia even if they'd probably win.
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and why not? lol. this is nation state politics, no ones enforcing rules and on when u can and can't join defensive treaties.
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Come
!metashit 
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There's no winning that war. The entire Northern Hemisphere would be a pile of radiated rubble. This idea that these nuclear powers would go quietly into the night if they were on the losing side of WWIII is ridiculous.
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u claiming defending ukraine is like vietnam and propping up an unpopular govt ... like where tf did u get that from???
no u dummy, sign the ceasefire, then allow ukraine to join nato.
honestly man, maybe it comes down to that, and that's just a consequence of totally fricking up the management of the fall of the ussr. climate change over the next 100 years is gunna cause some really wacky shit to go down if we don't fix our broken nation state geopolitically system.
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I'm saying that putting boots on the ground will result in an unending war where the moment you withdraw the Ukraine government falls. Russia's entire doctrine requires that they would never concede such a war, and Ukraine no longer has the strength to stand alone. It should be obvious.
Watch as Russia reinvades the very moment such a treaty is rumoured.
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Ukraine sold their grain to Africa and shit until recently, not Europe. There is a reason why Polish farmers started seething hard when Ukraine was let in on the EU agricultural market as a form of gibs because of the war.
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That's not true, Ukraine's grain goes all over the world and has done for years, including to Europe. Several countries were dependent on it, most notably Spain and Bongland.
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Grain is incredibly fungible. Unlike something like Russian gas you can easily and cheaply ship it, and you can grow it practically anywhere.
No country is dependent on Ukrainian grain, but it drives down grain prices globally through supply.
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Russia is scared of NATO because they want to be offensive if that isn't completely clear not only from their actions but from their stated goals. Russia isn't scared of NATO invading them and anyone implying that is legitimately r-slurred. Russians are the state manifestation of daddy issues, they require a daddy to tell them what to do and how to think, ironically despite communist thought being anti-feudalism, the Russian people are more inclined to be vassals than any capitalist state.
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and i'm sorry we're just supposed to bend over to the russian regiemes demand for constant adversary why?
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Well fear of NATO has been his entire pretext for war with Ukraine - "you promised not to expand eastward when the soviet union collapsed!! It wasn't an official agreement or anything, but still!!"
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nato has literally never invaded anyone, under what pretext could it be called a threat?
why do we let such garbage define geopolitics, i'm tired of living on a planet driven by absolute r-slurs.
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Yet.
Which is kindof a wild thought, because I think majority of NATO literally just wants to grill, but at the end of the day it's more of an extension of US, with their weapons, bases and all and it makes sense that Russia wouldn't want an expansion towards their boarders any more than it already has, given their relations throughout the cold war and beyond, especially in the face of some potential US/China, conflict where Russia would probably have to take the latter side.
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the us has more ability to project power than any other country, we don't need bases nearby to do so. this isn't a rational complaint and u believing it is just being a sheeple
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Okay? And NATO is the most direct form of that power projection
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i'm sorry i don't understand ur bleating
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I mean it isn't a threat, it's a defensive alliance and the fact that Russia's neighbors and former subjects have felt insecure enough to justify the expense and commitment of NATO membership should have Russia looking inward at its own behavior and posture, but of course self reflection is not going to happen - We end up instead with "There's nothing wrong with how we act! We're entitled to do whatever we want! It's actually the defensive alliance who wishes to attack us!"
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Russian foreign policy (see Georgia and Ukraine) involves that of invasion. NATO prevents that.
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