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  • HailVictory1776 : Christ denial not only is a mortal sin, it is the denial of basic human morality, it is pure hatred
  • Nightcrawler : @hailvictory1776 is right free my neighbor or face the Christian reeducation camps :capypharaoh:

:marseypraying: /r/atheism MELTDOWN as they realize Project 2025 is underway :marseyhappening: "THIS IS LITERALLY 1984 AND THE HANDMAID'S TALE" :soycry:

Fun fact for all of you enlightened by your own intellectcels: atheism has grown from 3% in 1970 to 4% in 2024 (source) and your project has utterly failed. Belief in new age spiritualism and du jour paganism have had all the growth in your efforts to destroy religion. Having said that, enjoy some reddit seethe:

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gkwa99/i_feel_like_ive_just_been_dragged_into_1984_and/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gl0fsq/remember_remember_the_5th_of_november/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gkwadg/i_have_no_more_faith_in_humanity/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gkrjak/its_not_looking_good_right_now/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gku66s/well_america_its_been_a_good_run/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gl2c3g/congrats_everyone_if_you_thought_you_were_safe_as/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gkyl94/the_country_couldnt_be_saved_and_the_consequences/

https://old.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1gkzai3/my_fellow_americans_what_the_frick_do_we_do_now/

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Holy shit what happened to the :marseyamazingatheist: "we are le level-headed rationalists" bit? Internet atheists were always super annoying but at least they had that going for themselves. They're just in full on fan-fic mode right now like those chicks with Handsmaid Tale costumes.

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They were never level-headed rationalists. :marseysmughips: I realize most of us were young when the new atheists got going but if you ever check out old content you can see they were always on the same tier of Howard Zinn and their understandings of history, philosophy and religion were always ideological garbage. They just won debates by tapping easily dunkable fundamentalists. !Christians !Catholics Checking in on the four horsemen, who were united only in their (admittedly a bit based) actual Islamophobia:

In this work, Dennett's interest in the ability of evolution to explain some of the content-producing features of consciousness is already apparent, and this later became an integral part of his program. He stated his view is materialist and scientific, and he presents an argument against qualia; he argued that the concept of qualia is so confused that it cannot be put to any use or understood in any non-contradictory way, and therefore does not constitute a valid refutation of physicalism.

This view is rejected by [Nobel Prize winning] neuroscientists Gerald Edelman, Antonio Damasio, Vilayanur Ramachandran, Giulio Tononi, and Rodolfo Llinás, all of whom state that qualia exist and that the desire to eliminate them is based on an erroneous interpretation on the part of some philosophers regarding what constitutes science.

On the next to last page of his book, Harris makes the telling admission that if people like male feminists, liars, and thieves could be just as happy as good people, then his moral landscape would no longer be a moral landscape; rather it would just be a continuum of well-being, whose peaks are occupied by good and evil people alike (p. 190).

What's interesting about this is that earlier in the book Harris observed that about three million Americans are psychopathic, that is to say, they don't care about the mental states of others. On the contrary, they enjoy inflicting pain on other people (pp. 97-99).

That implies that there is a possible world which we can conceive in which the continuum of human well-being is not a moral landscape. The peaks of well-being could be occupied by evil people. But that entails that in the actual world the continuum of well-being and the moral landscape are not identical either. For identity is a necessary relation. There is no possible world in which some entity A is not identical to A. So if there is any possible world in which A is not identical to B, it follows that A is not in fact identical to B.

Since it's possible that human well-being and moral goodness are not identical, it follows necessarily that human well-being and moral goodness are not the same, as Harris has asserted.

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TIL of new equine marseys

:#marseyhorsemandeath: :#marseyhorsemanwar: :#marseyhorsemanfamine: :#marseyhorsemanconquest:

!horsefrickers

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:#marseybooing!: BOOOO!!!

:#marseyfluffyannoyed: Crappy Marseys.

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Could get a series of plushies of these :reposthorse:

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agreed

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these have been around for a long time, plus theyre wpd :marseyfluffyannoyed:

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Consciousness is an illusion. Just as pain is an illusion. but at that point it does not matter to your experience of existing whether it is an illusion or not.

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dennett is right tho. not necessarily about his proposed resolution (which he freely admits), but about all the glaring inconsistencies in the traditional ideas about consciousness. what 99% of people think consciousness is can't possibly be true, it contradicts itself.

This view is rejected by [Nobel Prize winning] neuroscientists Gerald Edelman, Antonio Damasio, Vilayanur Ramachandran, Giulio Tononi, and Rodolfo Llinás,

because they're dumb

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Dennett did defend and held to a strong illusionism attacking premise 1 of this Moorean argument in Why You Can't Make a Computer That Feels Pain:

1. People sometimes feel pain.

2. If strong illusionism is true, no one feels pain.

3. Strong illusionism is false.

You can handwave by allowing that at best people undergo processes of pain, and register them, but they do not experience pain, and they do not feel pain. But to deny that people feel pain is to deny something apparently obvious... and it is of the essence of strong illusionism about consciousness to deny something apparently obvious and seemingly undeniable which is why the hard problem of consciousness is called the hard problem to begin with. :marseysmughips:

Dennett was too ideologically committed to his strident scientism (the edifice of all "new atheism") and false dichotomization of a poorly understood faith with a poorly understood science to be reasonable in much the same way critics often accuse us theists of being. :marseyindignant: !sophistry

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Pain is obviously real to the extent that our biological impulses are designed to feel the subjective experience of pain. Is it impossible to cross the wires to make you feel tickish when you get stabbed. I doubt it.

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@whatastory is right because he made his point using less words.

:marseybooing:

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For philosophy my response was actually pretty brief and I avoided using much jargon. :marseysad:

They invited me by name to join the ping group the day they created it, and I refused for a few months because I frickin' knew it was just gonna be jokes and another one for :marseywingcuck: political back and forth. I have been proven right. :marseysadge:

@hypernovasaiz has said he has a master's and he never tries bringing these topics up here which is probably the correct move. :marseysigh:

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Ohhh, I'm just goofin' around. :marseyteehee:

I'm only knowledgeable about political economy, but I have dabbled in philosophy. I never really got into metashit and consciousness because much of it seems like untestable nonsense. A lot of philosophers enjoy focusing on constructing purely logical arguments to make their points, but that often leads to them chasing their tails because they tend to slip into only testing for validity instead of also the soundness of their propositions. That test for soundness requires something from the sciences which they're highly allergic too, but at that point I simply ignore them or at best find their opinion amusing but weak. :marseypathetic:

If you couldn't tell, I really enjoyed reading Wittgenstein and Karl Popper. :marseyexcited:

!sophistry, have another "good morning" ping because I love you so much. :marseycoffee:

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Consciousness is obviously biological. Get punched in face. Lose consciousness. Have a tumor in the right place on your brain, you want to murder people for the first time in your life. It's all physical and anybody who doesn't believe it is scared of dying and being nothing.

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Metaphysics and consciousness are really why I got into it in the first place. :marseyautism: Impossible to have opinions on the Church Fathers without understanding neoplatonism and for the medievals Aristotle.

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When I was a young edgy internet atheist I used to watch shit like this

Granted I was a teenager and wanted to rebel but looking back it all seems so silly. Also this guy used to hate republicians 15 years ago and now one of his most recent videos is dunking on democrats

Strange how things turn out

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I hated republicans 15 years ago, peepee cheney was still VP. back then democrats were a different beast entirely.

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yeah same I was a crazy amazing athiest fan

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new atheism is what converted me as a young teenager but it impressive what a thin veneer of intelligence they have.

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Co-opted by intersectionality.

Dawkins was (and is) happy to talk about how terrible Islam is for example, /r/atheism is waving Palestine flags.

You can't think people waving the Bible around have too much political power unless you also get behind 100 other causes .

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